Boy, was I ever wrong!!!

[LemonLime]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Why is she wearing palm grips? Do her hands rip a lot? Is it possible for her to train with no grips at all?

It generally is not advisable to train without dowel grips at L7 and up and her child is L7. It is not just because of rips (one of my children never ripped on her palms ever in her entire life, in fact), but also because of safety. The dowel helps the gymnast stay on the bar.

I think you are asking about palm grips, though, and I have no opinion either way. Most gyms who consistently have upper optionals (probably 90% of them) put gymnasts in dowel grips at L5 and never use palm grips ever. Palm grips are rare, but they are certainly used (I've never been to a gym or known anyone at gym that has used them, but I can't say either way if they're advisable or not).

The problem is that kids will nearly always have to transition to dowel grips in this country and putting it off until L7 can temporarily hold back a gymnast when they are most trying to push ahead (e.g., make a jump from L5 to L7, add in new giants, etc.) which is emotionaly difficult and could, conceivably, lead to them not learning the bar skills they need on time.

Having said that, I'm sorry for the poster whose child is struggling to kip now that she's having to switch over from palm to dowel. Once she transitions, however - and that may take 4-8 weeks - her beautiful bars will return and it will work out ok. It's like riding a bike, as soon as it clicks, she'll be a great bike rider and a great bar worker (again) almost immediately. Hang in there.

I have children doing single rail release moves in 000 and 00 Just Right grips. They are dowel grips but narrow and help kids with small hands. If someone is having trouble transitioning into dowel grips, they might be worth a try. The only problem with them that we have encountered is that once a gymnast starts doing 15+ skills in a bar routine (L10 sometimes and hopes/preelite/elite) they are too small to hold as much chalk as regular grips. They can lose chalkiness by the time the big dismount comes which can make the gymnasts uncomfortable. That's usually a time to switch out of the narrow dowel grips and into "regular" ones.

[Shawn]

My thoughts are that there are a number of elite/Olympic gymnasts who don't use grips at all. I know they are common in this country but it is clearly possible to do the skills without them so why push? If a gymnast can do all the training and skills without grips then let them.

[KBT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn As to practicing at home, we don't do "methodical, planned deliberate practice." We make a secure, safe environment available to her and we make sure she's doing skills safely and correctly. But no one makes her practice any time or for any length of time. We just support her when she wants to do it. She wanted to get the jump to the high bar. We found a way for her to practice that at home without the pressure of the other girls and the gym. But in no way did we force her to practice it. She does it because she loves it and wants to get the skills. We just do what we can to help her be safe while still learning what she wants to learn. That's all.

A little off-topic, but I find team practices are tailored to meet the needs of the group as a whole. This may mean that some individual needs are not met. Say your daughter is having trouble with her jump to high bar. The coach will probably use the same drills for everyone which may or may not be the right drill for your daughter. She'll get the skill eventually, but she might have gotten it faster with a different method. It sounds like your child is very in-tune with her body and what it will take for her to get individual skills. It is wonderful that she has this awareness at such a young age. I'd encourage her to start communicating this stuff to her coaches. Her coach can maybe let her do a different drill or stay after practice for a few minutes to work on something if she needs some time work work without her teammates watching. Eventually she won't be able to work her skills at home (and I'm with the rest of the coaches - not a fan of at-home practice!), and she'll need to work with her coaches to find the best way for her to be coached.

[Shawn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBT A little off-topic, but I find team practices are tailored to meet the needs of the group as a whole. This may mean that some individual needs are not met. Say your daughter is having trouble with her jump to high bar. The coach will probably use the same drills for everyone which may or may not be the right drill for your daughter. She'll get the skill eventually, but she might have gotten it faster with a different method. It sounds like your child is very in-tune with her body and what it will take for her to get individual skills. It is wonderful that she has this awareness at such a young age. I'd encourage her to start communicating this stuff to her coaches. Her coach can maybe let her do a different drill or stay after practice for a few minutes to work on something if she needs some time work work without her teammates watching. Eventually she won't be able to work her skills at home (and I'm with the rest of the coaches - not a fan of at-home practice!), and she'll need to work with her coaches to find the best way for her to be coached.

I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. The coaches don't do drills specific to one child. They run drills for the team. They do offer private lessons but DD hates those. Also, DD is not outspoken, particularly to adults. She won't ask for specific help. I'm hoping this will change as she gets older. In the mean time, we help her with what we can. She actually wanted us to buy her a high bar to practice on at home. I told her even if we could afford it (which we can't!), the basement ceiling just isn't high enough. LOL She also knows that as soon as she outgrows our little "gym", that room is destined to be a home theater.

[gymjourneymom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Why is she wearing palm grips? Do her hands rip a lot? Is it possible for her to train with no grips at all?

She wore no grips at all until level 5, when she started getting some rips. By then most of her team mates were wearing the palm grips. She went the longest with out wearing any grips. Looking back it would have been better for her to have just started in the narrow dowel grips back then. Hind sight is 20/20.

[gymjourneymom]

Thank you LemonLime for your encouraging words DD knew she would lose skills in the transiton...it's just very frustrating for her. Especially when she should be spending the summer perfecting her giants.... instead of getting used to dowel grips! I have faith in her drive & ability, and I know she'll transition well. It's just so hard to watch her struggling & being so far behind her teammates at this stage. I wish she would have made the switch before she got to this point. I wish she would have just gone into the narrow dowel grips in level 5 and skipped the palm grips altogether. So Shawn...that's our experience with grips. Look at the upper level girls at your gym...if they are wearing grips...then that is what they will recommend for your DD, (when she gets to those levels). She may not need them now(bare hands ok). But get her used to dowel grips early(even if she loses skills in the transition)....she will most likely need them in L7(for skills & saftey reasons). The switch may be difficult now....but it will be much harder(both skill wise & emotionally) later. My advice(from similar experience) to your orginal question...if the coach ordered grips for the whole team....the whole team should get used to them together. Hope this helps

[gym law mom]

Gymjourneymom---tell your dd to hang in there. I'm sure she is feeling what my gymmie did when she went from no grips to dowel grips at the end of her L6 season. At that gym the girls all did L5 and L6 without grips and did the transition after the L6 season was over. At that point they were doing giants on the trench bar with a spot. My gymmie who was a good bar worker couldn't get the feel for the bar. Same thing as your dd---couldn't even do a kip. The excitement of getting the grips quickly disappeared and she wanted to burn them. Her problem was being able to regrasp the bar---would keep getting the dowel hung up.

I think once she stopped fighting with the grips, things started clicking again. 18 mos later, she wouldn't do bars without them and is working on front giants, bails etc. She uses a grip made by Ten-0 that is softer and has a fast break in---had them broken in 1 night. I think her coach takes the right attitude----doesn't make a big fuss when a girl comes in with new grips. Tells them to go do alot of tap swings etc. then next practice do the regular bar drills with everyone else. Sometimes the more attention you draw to something, the more it hinders the process.

[gymjourneymom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gym law mom Gymjourneymom---tell your dd to hang in there. I'm sure she is feeling what my gymmie did when she went from no grips to dowel grips at the end of her L6 season. At that gym the girls all did L5 and L6 without grips and did the transition after the L6 season was over. At that point they were doing giants on the trench bar with a spot. My gymmie who was a good bar worker couldn't get the feel for the bar. Same thing as your dd---couldn't even do a kip. The excitement of getting the grips quickly disappeared and she wanted to burn them. Her problem was being able to regrasp the bar---would keep getting the dowel hung up. I think once she stopped fighting with the grips, things started clicking again. 18 mos later, she wouldn't do bars without them and is working on front giants, bails etc. She uses a grip made by Ten-0 that is softer and has a fast break in---had them broken in 1 night. I think her coach takes the right attitude----doesn't make a big fuss when a girl comes in with new grips. Tells them to go do alot of tap swings etc. then next practice do the regular bar drills with everyone else. Sometimes the more attention you draw to something, the more it hinders the process.

Thanks Gym Law Mom! Nice to hear of similar experinces....that have a happy ending Very encouraging! DD is small for a 13yo. She has Gibson "Just right" dowel grips. They are broken in & fit her well....it's just the getting used to them(part like you said) that is so frustrating for DD. I talked to the coach about it-he is being supportive of the transition period now. I don't think anyone knew she wasn't wearing dowel grips all along! This week(1st week of level 7 practice)she wore the dowels a little bit each practice to "get the feel for them"...then switched back into her palm grips, to do some of her regular stuff (so she can keep moving ahead with her team). This worked out well...she did a giant fly-away(with spotting & her palm grips) landed it on the floor.... her 1st time ever trying it It made her soooooooo happy. Kind of built up her confidence about not even being able to kip in the dowels right now. She is now motivated her to keep going with the transition to the dowels. EVERYONE has told her "giants will be easier with the dowel grips". Wish us luck that the transition doesn't take too long.

[gymjourneymom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. The coaches don't do drills specific to one child. They run drills for the team. They do offer private lessons but DD hates those. Also, DD is not outspoken, particularly to adults. She won't ask for specific help. I'm hoping this will change as she gets older. In the mean time, we help her with what we can. She actually wanted us to buy her a high bar to practice on at home. I told her even if we could afford it (which we can't!), the basement ceiling just isn't high enough. LOL She also knows that as soon as she outgrows our little "gym", that room is destined to be a home theater.

I wish I had CB when my DD was in the lower levels! So much good advice from people who have "been ther done that". Shawn... I hear everything you are saying about your DD wanting to practice at home. She sounds very talented & driven(like someone I know, um...my own DD). What I've learned....I am NOT a gymnastics coach. But I help her how I can... by being supportive & encouraging. You're DD may not like privates...but that sounds to me like what would be best for her. One on one with the coach...she will not only progress in her individual skills BUT she'll learn to TRUST her coach.....so very important when the bigger skills come along. The coach will get to know your child better too. There is an important bond here that needs to be nurtured. She will get to a level when you won't be able to help her at home. She needs to learn to be able to ask the coach for help & trust the coach to spot her when she goes for that new "big" skill. Privates may not be what your DD likes...but my DD didn't like dowel grips & look at the problems it is causing her now. I've learned sometimes you have to say "you may not like it now...but this is what's best for you." Privates would be safer & tailored to her individual skill level. I truley believe they've be the key to my DD success

[KBT]

I wanted to add a clarification to my previous comment about using palm grips when kids started kips. I coached as part of a community rec program. 95% of my girls would quit before advancing past a kip so there was no need to push dowel grips. The other 5% of my kids would go on to compete for the high school team and wouldn't have anything harder than a longhang kip - flyaway in their routine. Cost was also an issue. This was a very low cost rec program - I would never have pushed a pair of dowel grips when they cost more than tuition for a ten-week session!

After thinking about this some more, I think I would skip palm grips for a USAG gymnast. The goal of USAG is to compete and move up the levels so it does make sense to start them with dowels. I *might* do palm grips if a kid just can't get the dowels for whatever reason and is ripping a lot and needs some palm protection.