JO Event specialists

[bogwoppit]

Lanna, you're a man!!!! That name is well confusing!

I also discovered last week that you can't type ***, **** and ****, tried the filter out for fun. Though you can type stalker, murderer, hacker and best of all slasher!!

Word filters can be so funny. Just put dots or spaces between the letters and you can do it, s.e.x. just like that.

[gymnellie]

Thought that I would add my opinion also! If a child sticks with the sport long enough to go elite or go NCAA, that's where they should be allowed to be an event specialist. They hung in there and they're good enough to deserve to pick which event they specialize in. In the JO, how many of them would be disappointed to do all events just to lose every event to a specialist? Speaking from experience with my dd, at a meet this year she didn't place in any event( meaning no medals) and missed being in the all around by one placement. She was absolutely miserable. Disappointed is not even the correct word. I think that gymnasts as a whole are perfectionist and when they feel like they didn't do well enough to get a medal, they are the first ones to be hard on themselves. So I guess what I am saying is that at the JO level they don't need the disappointment of feeling like they didn't do well because the ones on the podium are all event specialist.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

There seems to be this widespread notion that if we allow specialists, they'll take over the sport, and discourage all-arounders.

Look at boys JO. Specialists are allowed at any level, and yet almost all kids do all six at least up to level 8, and even then specialists are the minority. There are some specialists, but most kids still do all-around. And the specialists don't always win their events. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that allowing specialists has had any negative effect on those who do all six.

Here's why I support specialization: I know a large number of girls that loved floor and hated bars and beam, so they quit and went to cheerleading. Had they been allowed to specialize, they could have continued as floor specialists. I have flat out asked several, and they've said they would still be gymnasts if they could be floor specialists.

In my opinion, anything that keeps kids in the sport is beneficial to the kids, beneficial to their club, and beneficial to the sport as a whole.

[bogwoppit]

Just to continue GT's train of thought. Many girls have to quit gym due to injury, it may happen to mine. But if she could reduce her hours and focus on beam and bars and still get to Provincials she'd be thrilled. I am sure she is not the only child in the gym this applies to.

All gymnasts want to compete AA, but it isn't going to happen for every gymnast. Should they stop competing to make it "fair" for everyone else? My kids will probably only compete bars and beam at her next meet, she won't be winning the AA will she? But it would be nice if she could make it to Provincials, it ain't going to happen here.

The whole event specialist winning on everything has no logic either. In any given city with multiple gyms there are multiple training schedules and set ups. One level six may train 25 hours a week with many coaches who are specialists themselves on each event, they may also have privates and attend open gym or even home school at the gym. Another level 6 in the same city might train 12 hours a week in a group of 10 girls and have 1 coach who manages to coach all around. Tell me how this is any more fair than allowing girls to specialize on an event or two or even three!

Gymnastics will never be equal or fair, but it should be fun and accessible to as many kids as possible.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

bogwoppit, I think you just said exactly what I was trying to say, and much more succinctly than I did.

[lannamavity]

I have no problem with specialists competing at whatever meet they want...as long as they don't qualify to a meet to which AA's have to qualify...by multiplying their score by 4. That is ridiculous and unfair.

Currently, girls can compete individual events at invites all they want...and that's fine, if the coach is okay with that.

By "watered down", I am not referring to the level of difficulty, but the caliber of athletes...such as those who posess strenght, speed, flexibility...all of the qualities for an AA, some of which are no longer necessary for an event specialist.

And as for NCAA specialists...warning for girls: specializing too soon may actually cost an athlete a possible scholarship when recruiters may be looking for a three-event or solid (but not stellar) all-arounder.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

What if they used a system like the men's side uses for qualifying for regionals or nationals?

In order to qualify for regionals as a specialist, you must be top 3 on your event. In order to qualify for nationals on 3, 4, or 5 events, you have to have a particular percentage of the required all-around score -- but it's more than just that fraction. For example, somebody wishing to qualify on half of the events has to get more than half the qualifying score (I forget exactly how much more).

I'll see if I can find the specific numbers later tonight.

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer What if they used a system like the men's side uses for qualifying for regionals or nationals? In order to qualify for regionals as a specialist, you must be top 3 on your event. In order to qualify for nationals on 3, 4, or 5 events, you have to have a particular percentage of the required all-around score -- but it's more than just that fraction. For example, somebody wishing to qualify on half of the events has to get more than half the qualifying score (I forget exactly how much more). I'll see if I can find the specific numbers later tonight.

You know, it sounds like it could make sense for the men's program...especially at the upper levels. The problem comes with the numbers, organization and training.

In California, for example, there are 1300 USAG male athletes registered...including specialists.

At the same time, California has 5400 female athletes, and very few are specialists.

The WAG coaches/judges in California work every weekend from August through May.

Compulsories compete a separate season from Optionals.

Teams are turned away from meets because there is no way to fit them all.

State Meets spill into the weekdays...even when L7 and L8 State are held on different weekends. State meet directors sweat an entire month trying to fit all of the kids.

The qualifying score for State can be as low as 32.0, and Regionals is a 34.0.

It just seems that it is REALLY EASY to qualify as an AA, and over 5,000 girls have the opportunity. The easier it is to qualify, the less competitive the athletes will be. It's about rising to the occasion, not lowering the expectations.

I'm not sure that adding more gymnasts is the biggest problem right now. I understand that it is not the same everywhere, but this has to be a consideration.

To quote one of my athletes from a few years ago, "The great satisfaction in being a gymnast is participating in a sport which not everybody can do."

A whole team of "floor specialists" is a tumbling team, a team-gym team, or a cheer squad. Why not let it be that...or the dreaded "recreational gymnastics"?

My questions for the MAG coaches are:

Who decides who gets to be a specialist and when?

Can they change their mind?

What if your team is small to medium sized and short a score on an event? Does someone have to compete that event, or do you take a zero while the specialists rest between their events? Who would decide who has to compete? Would the specialists have been training all events just in case this happens?

What if a parent has their own thoughts as to whether a kid should compete AA or not, and they don't agree with the gymnast? Who decides?

These are some of the questions which would inevitably come up. I'm interested in how they are dealt with.

[bogwoppit]

Maybe it should be harder to qualify to States? How is it special if just about everyone qualifies? Then there would be room to specialise.

But, I do see what Lanna means, gymnastics is huge in the States, with flights going on for hours. I would go nuts as a coach dealing with that. Plus most clubs seem to go to so many meets.

All of those facts should not prevent specialists though, it would just become another piece of the pie.

Perhaps we can ask someone from Region 5 to comment after they have survived States.

[Shawn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lannamavity To quote one of my athletes from a few years ago, "The great satisfaction in being a gymnast is participating in a sport which not everybody can do."

I like this. And I think this says it all. If an athlete cannot compete in all aspects of the sport, why should the sport change to accommodate the athlete? That just doesn't seem fair to the athletes who work hard to be able to compete in all events. And it encourages athletes to avoid those events that are too challenging (due to fear, inability, or whatever) for them. Furthermore, there are alternatives to girls who don't want to (or can't) be an all-around gymnast. They can do tramp/tumbling teams or sport acrobatics, for example. I think the bottom line is that women's gymnastics is about an athlete's abilities in four areas: floor, bars, beam and vault.