JO Event specialists

[bogwoppit]

I saw a small article on this and it linked it to the region 5 website, check it out.

State and Regional Update

*Event specialists are allowed at State meets and Regional meets.

*Qualifying score is equal to the qualifying all-around score divided by

the number of events they are competing.

*They must enter the State meet as a Specialist.They will qualify to regionals as a Specialist.

*The entry fee is the same as the all-around fee.


We have this at our Quebec school level competitions, but not at the Canadian/Quebec provincial/national levels. Right now I like the concept, as the parent of an injured gymnast, because this way DD would have a chance to qualify on the apparatus she can compete on. To compete and know that you don't have any chance to qualify is a bit demoralizing.

What do you think of the idea? I am sure that it will spread and will not stay just in region 5.

[lannamavity]

Do you really want to know?

[bogwoppit]

You know I do!!!!!! : - )

[lannamavity]

The US has a petitioning procedure for injured athletes...provided they compete AA and fulfill the requirements.

Athletes with permanent physical problems can compete on events they can do.

It's about USAG keeping kids in the sport to make money.

[bogwoppit]

It seems in lots of ways that USAG is about making money. The fact that level four is now the beginning level for most gymnasts in USAG is another example of this. Seeing so many level 2 and 3 meets on youtube also is indicative of lots of people making lots of money out of low level gymnastics.

Do you think the fact that gymnasts at the Elite level, college and international, can specialize has influenced this change in region 5 JO gymnastics? Or do you think that there is also demand from parents or coaches?

Even at the Olympics we don't have as many AA's, with many girls just doing two or three events. Injury seems to play a role in this, but some girls,just aren't the "complete package".

What are the positives and negatives of this system?

In Quebec only the top 32, or less, in any category go to Provincials, I don't see how it could work here as the numbers just wouldn't fit. However in the US where most girls qualify to States with a certain score it might work, numbers wise. It seems as though State meets are massive and each flight goes on for hours.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think it's about time the women's side started allowing for specialist. This is one area where the women's side is WAY behind the men's (though admittedly the need to allow specialists isn't as strong in women's gymnastics, since they only have four events, and three of them are floor).

If somebody doesn't want to do all events but still wants to continue training and competing, why not let them?

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer I think it's about time the women's side started allowing for specialist. This is one area where the women's side is WAY behind the men's (though admittedly the need to allow specialists isn't as strong in women's gymnastics, since they only have four events, and three of them are floor). If somebody doesn't want to do all events but still wants to continue training and competing, why not let them?

Wow...a little ***ist. I'm actually tempted to think that if men had to to high bar the way women do uneven bars they couldn't do it.

The Mens Program is WAY behind the Womens Program in terms of organization, education and numbers...not to mention scores and rankings. I once went to get an MAG FIG rating at a keg party a while back and decided I'd rather not judge or coach Men's gymnastics...so mens' gymnastics is not inherently the leading force in the sport today.

Some States have 400 competitive female Level 7's and almost as many Level 8's...almost 100% All-Arounders. How are they going to fit specialists on random events in full sessions all weekend long? As perviously stated, meets would drag on from Friday throught Monday...which is not good for kids.

So the need to involve specialists for the States and Regions is not there on the womens' side. It would just be a pain in the butt for all involved...except USAG. Specialists would be a dream for them...they pay the same and compete less. USAG doesn't have to deal with it directly because they will not allow specialists at JO Nationals or East/West Championships any time soon, so they make it "up to the Region to decide" and rake in the dough.

All-Arounds have to train four events and still compete with specialists who could spend all of their time focusing on one event, which is not fair. Because is would be unfair to All-Arounders, fewer of them would be compelled to compete AA, and AA will deteriorate.

Will specialists train full hours? If not, income for clubs will go down. Club teams will have to have to recruit specialists from other clubs to fill weak spots in their lineup.

And the main problem I have with it is (and this is just my opinion):

Without a medical reason, being a specialist is avoiding a challenge instead of confronting it. The whole point of gymnastics was to see who was the best athlete based on the disciplines on the different apparatus. I'm just not impressed by someone who can do one event...even if they are the best in the world on that event. If that's all they do, then they should be the best...

I competed as an All-Arounder, struggling thought horrible pommel routines, praying I didn't make it to event finals on pommels, rings and p-bars...but I competed anyway, and I'm glad I did, because I learned humility and appreciated winning floor or vault, and the occasional AA place...and my obscurely colored ribbon for getting last on pommels.

The truth is that I don't understand the point in having specialists for USAG...besides money. There are other sports like tramp/tumbling/track/diving/acro/rhythmic for ex-gymnasts to move on to. This whole "specialist thing" is sounds like a way to prolong an exit from the sport... a way to make the sport "easier".

NCAA is a great place for specialists...and it should be a sort of reward to those athletes who struggle through all the events.

I don't mean to offend any specialists...in fact, I wanted to be one at one time...but it's really sad to see how watered down the sport is becoming, even at the beginning levels.

And that is the end of my thoughts on specialists. You asked.

Hmmm...can I say "5eXist" or "S3x1st"?

[lannamavity]

Lord...I said "perviously stated".

How about "gender-ist". Is that a word?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lannamavity Wow...a little ***ist. I'm actually tempted to think that if men had to to high bar the way women do uneven bars they couldn't do it. The Mens Program is WAY behind the Womens Program in terms of organization, education and numbers...not to mention scores and rankings. I once went to get an MAG FIG rating at a keg party a while back and decided I'd rather not judge or coach Men's gymnastics...so mens' gymnastics is not inherently the leading force in the sport today.

Wow, um, seems like I touched a nerve with my post.

I think you're misreading the intentions behind that post. What I meant when I said that was ONE area in which the men's program is ahead of the women's program, I meant in contrast to the MANY other areas where the women's is ahead of the men's. I assumed it was accepted fact that the women's program is currently far more successful than the men's, and does a number of things much better.

I don't meant to imply that male gymnasts are better than female gymnasts either. Merely that men's gymnastics involves more different events, a point which I don't think can even be disputed.

Quote:
Some States have 400 competitive female Level 7's and almost as many Level 8's...almost 100% All-Arounders. How are they going to fit specialists on random events in full sessions all weekend long? As perviously stated, meets would drag on from Friday throught Monday...which is not good for kids.

So your argument is that specialists are bad because it means more kids will do the sport? If there are a ton of participants, that's GREAT in my opinion!

Quote:
So the need to involve specialists for the States and Regions is not there on the womens' side. It would just be a pain in the butt for all involved...except USAG. Specialists would be a dream for them...they pay the same and compete less. USAG doesn't have to deal with it directly because they will not allow specialists at JO Nationals or East/West Championships any time soon, so they make it "up to the Region to decide" and rake in the dough.

And if the kids want to compete, and are willing to pay, why not let them? Just because USAG makes money from it doesn't automatically make it a bad thing.

Quote:
All-Arounds have to train four events and still compete with specialists who could spend all of their time focusing on one event, which is not fair. Because is would be unfair to All-Arounders, fewer of them would be compelled to compete AA, and AA will deteriorate.

How would it be unfair? Yes, specialists would have the advantage on individual events, but all-arounders would still be the ones taking home the all-around medals. The number of all-arounders may decrease a bit, but it won't be eliminated entirely -- just look at the men's side. There are plenty of JO specialists, AND plenty of all-arounders.

Quote:
Will specialists train full hours? If not, income for clubs will go down. Club teams will have to have to recruit specialists from other clubs to fill weak spots in their lineup.

Income for clubs won't go down, because more kids will stick with the sport longer. A club will make more from a team of 5 all-arounders and 5 specialists than they will from just 5 all-arounders.

Quote:
And the main problem I have with it is (and this is just my opinion): Without a medical reason, being a specialist is avoiding a challenge instead of confronting it. The whole point of gymnastics was to see who was the best athlete based on the disciplines on the different apparatus. I'm just not impressed by someone who can do one event...even if they are the best in the world on that event. If that's all they do, then they should be the best... I competed as an All-Arounder, struggling thought horrible pommel routines, praying I didn't make it to event finals on pommels, rings and p-bars...but I competed anyway, and I'm glad I did, because I learned humility and appreciated winning floor or vault, and the occasional AA place...and my obscurely colored ribbon for getting last on pommels.

I agree, I'd rather see a kid do all events than specialize. But I'd rather see a kid specialize than quit.

Quote:
The truth is that I don't understand the point in having specialists for USAG...besides money. There are other sports like tramp/tumbling/track/diving/acro/rhythmic for ex-gymnasts to move on to. This whole "specialist thing" is sounds like a way to prolong an exit from the sport... a way to make the sport "easier".

Not sure if it's like this in all states, but there are very very very few tramp and tumbling teams in NC. That simply isn't an option for many kids, because the programs aren't out there -- or they aren't out there enough.

Quote:
NCAA is a great place for specialists...and it should be a sort of reward to those athletes who struggle through all the events.

Which is exactly why we should allow them at the levels which will hopefully lead kids up to the NCAA.

Quote:
I don't mean to offend any specialists...in fact, I wanted to be one at one time...but it's really sad to see how watered down the sport is becoming, even at the beginning levels.

With how many people are complaining that the sport is getting too hard and too dangerous, I think it's safe to say that there is no risk of it being "too watered down." And there's nothing wrong with making it easy at the lower levels -- it gets more kids to do the sport.

[Shawn]

Just my $.02 but it seems like the AA gymnasts would get disillusioned if they never placed on the individual events because of the "specialists". Sure, they'd place in the all-around but they'd lose out over all. It doesn't really seem fair to them. They work hard to excel at all aspects of the sport and then they get beat out by someone who only does 1/4 of the work? I think the AA girls would get really frustrated by that.