Endurance running for gymnasts

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lannamavity "Last time I checked, power was a very desired quality in gymnasts. Do you think Shawn Johnson is doing 20 minutes of endurance training everyday? Doubtful." I don't think she trains at the gym we are talking about. In fact, she may be training rowing for the next week or so...

Oh my God, I feel awful about it, but this made me laugh unbelievably hard.

[KBT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lannamavity "Last time I checked, power was a very desired quality in gymnasts. Do you think Shawn Johnson is doing 20 minutes of endurance training everyday? Doubtful." I don't think she trains at the gym we are talking about. In fact, she may be training rowing for the next week or so...

This made me laugh as well! Terrible situation and I hope she's able to stay focused through all of it, but the mental image of little Shawn rowing a boat around the parking lot as a warmup... Heehee.

[ACoach78]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lannamavity As I said before...the point is that a 20 minute run (I'm assuming these girls ran maybe a mile and a half at most) is not going to lead to a significant decline in performance, which is in answer to the question in the original post. A mile run is not "distance training". It's about as close to distance training as doing 20 minutes of chasses around the floor. The very information you have posted is the same information that many people use to justify why they don't run even short distances, which is their choice. I agree that gymnasts don't build power or speed by running...but that isn't the point. We do tons of anaerobic training during floor rotations and conditioning circuits to build speed and power. The girls do a variety of movements as well as specific plyometric exercises. It's part of an overall program.

So, you've expressed your opinion, but you have not defended it in the least. I posted an article that reviewed the literature (meaning...several studies were cited) that appeared in a peer-reviewed academic journal.

While you can continue to argue your point, it holds no substance.

A mile run may not be "distance" training by your definition, but it is continuous aerobic training as the article states. The aerobic energy system predominates the other energy systems (ATP-PC, Glycolytic) for any activity that exceeds roughly two minutes. It's been defined a little differently in different texts. I've seen some texts say 2:30.

When you recruit muscle fibers, you recruit the smallest fibers first and then move to the larger fibers. Your smallest fibers are your slow twitch fibers while the next size up is your Type IIa (Fast-Twitch Intermediate) fibers. The largest fibers are your Type IIb (Fast-Twitch). It is actually pretty rare to really be able to tap into those Type IIb fibers on a regular occasion. Usually, you're utilizing mostly slow twitch and Type IIb fibers. The type IIb fibers are the most influenced by training. Their enzymatic properties can shift towards aerobic mechanisms or anaerobic mechanisms depending upon the type of training that they are exposed to.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but research does not agree.

The best approach to training for gymnastics is interval training, power and speed endurance, and doing plyometrics.

The biggest challenge to a floor routine is being better prepared to deal with the build-up of lactic acid in the muscles. If you can increase your lactate threshold, that's the secret.

[JBS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACoach78 So, you've expressed your opinion, but you have not defended it in the least. I posted an article that reviewed the literature (meaning...several studies were cited) that appeared in a peer-reviewed academic journal. While you can continue to argue your point, it holds no substance. A mile run may not be "distance" training by your definition, but it is continuous aerobic training as the article states. The aerobic energy system predominates the other energy systems (ATP-PC, Glycolytic) for any activity that exceeds roughly two minutes. It's been defined a little differently in different texts. I've seen some texts say 2:30. When you recruit muscle fibers, you recruit the smallest fibers first and then move to the larger fibers. Your smallest fibers are your slow twitch fibers while the next size up is your Type IIa (Fast-Twitch Intermediate) fibers. The largest fibers are your Type IIb (Fast-Twitch). It is actually pretty rare to really be able to tap into those Type IIb fibers on a regular occasion. Usually, you're utilizing mostly slow twitch and Type IIb fibers. The type IIb fibers are the most influenced by training. Their enzymatic properties can shift towards aerobic mechanisms or anaerobic mechanisms depending upon the type of training that they are exposed to. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but research does not agree. The best approach to training for gymnastics is interval training, power and speed endurance, and doing plyometrics. The biggest challenge to a floor routine is being better prepared to deal with the build-up of lactic acid in the muscles. If you can increase your lactate threshold, that's the secret.

What if a gymnast walks 20 minutes to school everyday?

It really sounds as if you think 20 minutes of running is going to drastically retrain a persons muscle fibers.

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACoach78 So, you've expressed your opinion, but you have not defended it in the least. I posted an article that reviewed the literature (meaning...several studies were cited) that appeared in a peer-reviewed academic journal. While you can continue to argue your point, it holds no substance. A mile run may not be "distance" training by your definition, but it is continuous aerobic training as the article states. The aerobic energy system predominates the other energy systems (ATP-PC, Glycolytic) for any activity that exceeds roughly two minutes. It's been defined a little differently in different texts. I've seen some texts say 2:30. When you recruit muscle fibers, you recruit the smallest fibers first and then move to the larger fibers. Your smallest fibers are your slow twitch fibers while the next size up is your Type IIa (Fast-Twitch Intermediate) fibers. The largest fibers are your Type IIb (Fast-Twitch). It is actually pretty rare to really be able to tap into those Type IIb fibers on a regular occasion. Usually, you're utilizing mostly slow twitch and Type IIb fibers. The type IIb fibers are the most influenced by training. Their enzymatic properties can shift towards aerobic mechanisms or anaerobic mechanisms depending upon the type of training that they are exposed to. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but research does not agree. The best approach to training for gymnastics is interval training, power and speed endurance, and doing plyometrics. The biggest challenge to a floor routine is being better prepared to deal with the build-up of lactic acid in the muscles. If you can increase your lactate threshold, that's the secret.

Here is the "secret"...get your head out of the books and read the very first post and the whole point of the discussion.

A mom is concerned that her daugher's team's deteriorating performance/injuries are being caused simply by adding running, and I am speaking from experience when I say that our athletes do run short distances periodically and they don't seem to have a problem being successful at Western Nationals and JO Nationals. So maybe there are other problems they may want to look into.

No further research necessary.

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBS What if a gymnast walks 20 minutes to school everyday? It really sounds as if you think 20 minutes of running is going to drastically retrain a persons muscle fibers.

Awesome visual:

A mom wheeling her daughter to and from school on a hand truck ala Hannibal Lechter to avoid activating those slow twitch fibers.

[gracefulone]

haha. nice picture!

[ACoach78]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lannamavity Here is the "secret"...get your head out of the books and read the very first post and the whole point of the discussion. A mom is concerned that her daugher's team's deteriorating performance/injuries are being caused simply by adding running, and I am speaking from experience when I say that our athletes do run short distances periodically and they don't seem to have a problem being successful at Western Nationals and JO Nationals. So maybe there are other problems they may want to look into. No further research necessary.

Can I help it if you're clueless about exercise physiology?

Maybe you need to get your head in the books and get a clue about how to train an athlete - particularly, gymnasts.

Lastly, if you want to keep running your mouth, do it through private messaging. Don't clutter up the forum with this nonsense.

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACoach78 Can I help it if you're clueless about exercise physiology? Maybe you need to get your head in the books and get a clue about how to train an athlete - particularly, gymnasts. Lastly, if you want to keep running your mouth, do it through private messaging. Don't clutter up the forum with this nonsense.

The point was helping someone who asked for it, not proving that I know how to read.

See you out on the gym floor. Don't forget your book.

Hopefully littlerock got the answer somehow and this thread can die.

[Gymtastic]

At what point in the workout are they doing this? If it is at the very beginning, then I can see how your daughter might be too tired to perform well during practice. How many times a week do they do this?

For those who say endurance is not important in gymnastics, well, it is true that a routine (floor) may only last for 1:30, but endurance IS very important if you are going to be training for 4-5 hours per day. In order to maximize training benefits, a gymnast needs to be able to spend long periods of time working out consistently with as little rest as possible, so physical and pulmonary endurance is very important.

That being said, sprinting and short bursts of a great amount of energy are also very important because of the massive amount of effort needed over a short period of time during competition.