Endurance running for gymnasts

[littlerock]

Our gym coaches/owners have gotten on this new kick that our 8 - 10 athletes need to endurance run. They feel this will lean them out and give them the endurance for floor. They are making our athletes run, at a full sprint most of the time, for 15 - 20 minutes. I have always believed that endurance running will decrease the fast twitch of an athlete and therfore they lose strength and power. Am I totally off base? For the coaches, how much do you make your atheltes run? My dd seems to be losing skills and not progressing since this routine has started. Is it just coincidence? BTW the owner is a marathon runner and does not have any experience with gymnastics.

[Aussie_coach]

Endurance is very important for floor routines, to get that last tumble pass looking fabulous while having enough energy to complete the whole routine. Many gymnasts do fall down when it comes to this situation and dont have the energy to perform all their skills to the best of their ability in a full routine.

Having said that it sounds like the gymnasts are being fatigued to the point that it may endanger them. If the kids are totally exhausted and then required to train skills they are at prime risk of an injury. Watch all the girls closely and look for signs of extreme fatigue, if you are seeing it definatly chat to the coaches.

[gymdog]

Endurance is important to a point, but for gymnastics we are working for a different thing than a marathon runner. Gymnasts need the endurance to keep moving without rest for longer than their routine (so they aren't tired at the end) but not to run for 15 miles non-stop, and they need to activate their muscles for relatively short but high level "bursts" (don't really know all the proper terms here) after moving at a lower level for some time in between (dance, etc). That said I've been in training groups that ran for 15-20 minutes at a time each practice and I don't think it was enough to reprogram my fast twitch muscles (it was done in addition to plyometric type training too). But I'm not a muscular specialist so I can't really speak to what the average threshold would be. If they just started this regimen, as Aussie said, I would imagine they are probably fatigued and that could be associated with a loss of training ability. I run stairs for about 20 minutes with a couple girls I work out with, and we do it at the end because of that. It could be that they need time to adjust to this routine; did they work up to it at all or start full clip?

[Gym-Nice-tics]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymdog It could be that they need time to adjust to this routine; did they work up to it at all or start full clip?

That was something that crossed my mind. How long has this new running thing been going on? If it has only been a short time, their bodies are still adjusting.

My team girls, all levels, will often start practice with a "running warm up" That takes roughly ten minutes. But it's not full out sprinting. We do five laps of regular running, one of each of the following: backwards, high knees, butt kicks, striders, chasses in, chasses out, chasses alternating, high toe walks, heel walks, rebounds, single leg hops, lunges, "sumo" squats, duck walks, and frong jumps.

I feel like that warm up has helped us. I feel like running alone doesn't help a gymnast's endurance completely- they need more whole body endurance training. Or at least that is how I am. I can run for extended periods of time and still not make a floor routine. Lol.

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlerock Our gym coaches/owners have gotten on this new kick that our 8 - 10 athletes need to endurance run. They feel this will lean them out and give them the endurance for floor. They are making our athletes run, at a full sprint most of the time, for 15 - 20 minutes. I have always believed that endurance running will decrease the fast twitch of an athlete and therfore they lose strength and power. Am I totally off base? For the coaches, how much do you make your atheltes run? My dd seems to be losing skills and not progressing since this routine has started. Is it just coincidence? BTW the owner is a marathon runner and does not have any experience with gymnastics.

There is no way that those kids are running at "full sprint" for 20 minutes. They are jogging. If they can sprint for 20 minutes, then they should be at Olympics for track and field in a month or so.

They could run for 20 minutes a day every day and it's still not going to effect their "fast twitch" muscle. It takes way more mileage to burn out fast twitch muscle.

Our kids run a mile and a half at least three days a week over the Summer. We taper off through the Fall when they are working on routines and the weather gets bad. Most of them can make it under 10 minutes. They are not good runners...in fact, some are horrible, but they know it is good for them.

We are actually considering having them run more often this year.

Sounds like the coaches are doing the right thing.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

The sort of endurance necessary for gymnastics is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the sort of endurance built from distance running.

Gymnastics routines last -- at the absolute most -- 90 seconds. Which means they require anaerobic endurance. Distance running builds up aerobic endurance.

These gymnasts would, in my opinion, be better served by sprinting all-out for 60 seconds or so than by jogging for 15-20 minutes.

EDIT: however, I should mention that while long-term endurance may not make a lick of difference in a competition setting (where a gymnast does 4 routines over the course of about three hours), it can make a big difference in a practice setting (where a gymnast is moving more-or-less nonstop for 3 hours). I personally would not make distance running a part of practice, but I can see why a coach might. IF I were to have my kids do something like this, it would be at the end of the workout.

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer The sort of endurance necessary for gymnastics is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the sort of endurance built from distance running. Gymnastics routines last -- at the absolute most -- 90 seconds. Which means they require anaerobic endurance. Distance running builds up aerobic endurance. These gymnasts would, in my opinion, be better served by sprinting all-out for 60 seconds or so than by jogging for 15-20 minutes. EDIT: however, I should mention that while long-term endurance may not make a lick of difference in a competition setting (where a gymnast does 4 routines over the course of about three hours), it can make a big difference in a practice setting (where a gymnast is moving more=or-less nonstop for 3 hours). I personally would not make distance running a part of practice, but I can see why a coach might. IF I were to have my kids do something like this, it would be at the end of the workout.

In my experience, gymnasts (especially girls) in better cardiovascular shape are better all-around athletes. While many people try to draw a sharp line between anaerobic and aerobic fitness, there is no proof that aerobic training (like a 15 minute run) could ever decrease anaerobic performance, and I think a lot of coaches avoid running because gymnasts (with exceptions) are horrible runners... and then complain when their kids are "out of shape."

IMHO, the perfect running workout for a group of optional gymnasts is one that envolves both sprinting and short distance running (and a mile or two is "short distance").

[JBS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gym-Nice-tics backwards, high knees, butt kicks, striders, chasses in, chasses out, chasses alternating, high toe walks, heel walks, rebounds, single leg hops, lunges, "sumo" squats, duck walks, and frog jumps.

My Level 6 girls do a 15-20 minute warm-up like the one above. About half of it is jogging.

There is no evidence that running for 20 minutes a day will do anything but make an individual much healthier. Running is great for gymnasts.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lannamavity In my experience, gymnasts (especially girls) in better cardiovascular shape are better all-around athletes. While many people try to draw a sharp line between anaerobic and aerobic fitness, there is no proof that aerobic training (like a 15 minute run) could ever decrease anaerobic performance, and I think a lot of coaches avoid running because gymnasts (with exceptions) are horrible runners... and then complain when their kids are "out of shape."

I certainly didn't mean to imply that it would HINDER their abilities; merely that I don't think it's the most efficient way of helping them.

[lannamavity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer I certainly didn't mean to imply that it would HINDER their abilities; merely that I don't think it's the most efficient way of helping them.

I didn't get that from your post...I was referring more to the original post which suggested that short distance running could burn out "fast twitch" muscle...

Sorry if it appeared I was suggesting you said that.