release position on ?flyaway?

[GymBot]

Very few gymnasts show good position at release on backward flyaway from bars or horizontal bar. For me, the position shown below is optimal: feet well above the bar, hips (centre of gravity) well below the bar. The parabolic path of the centre of gravity will take this gymnast away from the bar. illustration - [...]

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[Geoffrey Taucer]

There is a major problem with this illustration; the gymnast is pulling in on the bar with her shoulders. Very very very very bad idea.

[JBS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer There is a major problem with this illustration; the gymnast is pulling in on the bar with her shoulders. Very very very very bad idea.

I think it really depends on the level of the gymnasts, high bar or unevens, and the skill they are throwing. The drawing may be a bit drastic...don't think of it as pulling in, think of it as tapping aggressively (tapping faster than your arms are going). In the video below you will see that position (if you can pause it at the right time).

[Geoffrey Taucer]

He doesn't appear to have such a shoulder angle on release to me, though maybe we aren't both pausing at the same frame. Whatever shoulder angle he has is slight, nothing close to that shown in the diagram.

[JBS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer He doesn't appear to have such a shoulder angle on release to me, though maybe we aren't both pausing at the same frame. Whatever shoulder angle he has is slight, nothing close to that shown in the diagram.

As I stated above the drawing may be a bit drastic. However, there is definitely shoulder angle involved in some dismounts. Yes...I can find video after video of 180 degree shoulder angle dismounts. But look at the hardest dismounts in the world...there will be shoulder angle. Pause the video below when the arms are horizontal and the body is moving towards vertical. The angle is only around 120 degrees. I fought this concept for many years...but you can't deny what you see.

This girl looks almost like the drawing...

This is a great discussion, I'd really like to see what some other people think on this one. Part of the reason this board was started was to connect coaches.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Actually, it looks like you're right.

Still not something I will ever deliberately train my kids to do.

[JBS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer Still not something I will ever deliberately train my kids to do.

I agree with that...it's just something that happens when they really start cranking a dismount.

[hammy]

You do a different release for different dismounts. The basic flyaway release should be toes up with a slight shoulder angle. Shoulder angle typically means pulling in and smacking feet/body off the bar. Shoulders should almost always be open (or slight shoulder angle) when releasing the bar.

A good way to teach a fly away is to stop the gymnast in the release position (the top of their swing--hold them there w/o them letting go of the bar).

The different release times usually cause the different shoulder angles but I still say open shoulders is your best bet. The dismount is about the tap and kicking the toes up before letting go (helped w/ my double layout).

[ACoach78]

There will typically be a slight angle during a flyaway because of the reaction force(s) between the upper and lower body. As the gymnast kicks into the upswing, the arms will react by pulling on the bar and creating a slight extension of the arms at the shoulder. This movement creates the momentary angle.

The important thing is to teach the gymnast the proper release point with the center of gravity slight below bar height. (as the picture shows) Additionally, trying to teach them to simply let go (no additionally pulling) or to "throw the bar away" will help to open the shoulders back up so as to allow the gymnast to move the center of gravity further away from the bar upon release.

[Rick McCharles]

Great, articulate conversation here.

I am impressed!

I'm the author of the original post, which was intended to bring attention to the often confused biomechanical point that the Centre of Gravity has to be below the bar on release in order to travel forward.

All other variables (shoulder angle, hip angle, trunk flexion) are ... variable.

This drawing is extreme for a simple layout, though I have seen kids achieve it. For double layout it is not extreme enough. Male gymnasts strive for a body position with legs vertical and as sharp an angle of shoulders as possible. So long as the C of G is below the bar on release, they will not hit it.

I suppose I should show a variety of different body positions, each with the C of G below the bar.

A future post, perhaps.

Rick McCharles
editor GymnasticsCoaching.com