backtuck

[Tumblequeensmom]

I have a question for the coaches re: the RO, BHS, Backtuck series on the Level 6 floor routine. My DD is doing a great job in her first season of L5... scored above a 35 at her first sectional meet.

Her coaches are working w/them on L6 skills a bit here and there.... all of the other girls already have the tumbling series mentioned above. My DD, however, does the RO, BHS... STOPS, then does the back tuck. She says that she's afraid to connect the series and that she goes "too high" on the BHS (they've only been doing these on the Tumbletrack). Is there anything I can say to her? Or should I mention to the coaches that she's afraid to do it?

I don't want the fear issue to become self-defeating, esp. since she's doing so well at everything else!

Thanks in advance for your advice!

-Lynn

[gymdog]

Is she doing it on purpose (i.e. does she plan to do RO BHS, bounce, BT) or is she planning to do the whole thing connected and stopping at the last minute? I've seen it introduced with a bounce in between...personally I don't like to coach it that way...but if she is doing something other than what she intends to do when she starts out the skill, that's dangerous.

Track has a very different feel than floor and you have to slow everything down. Without a lot of basics training, it's difficult to get the feel of it immediately. I learned back tucks in a gym without a track or much equipment, and for a really long time I couldn't get used to it. BHS felt too high, couldn't delay the flip long enough.

Her coaches probably know she is afraid if she isn't doing it. So I guess what I'm getting at is maybe they told her to bounce in between. It's still early so I wouldn't worry much about it, it sounds like they're still in the pretty early stages of training it and evaluating where they are. If it becomes a bigger problem later on maybe doing a private will give a chance for individual spotting and drills to get over the connection.

[coachamyamerican]

might see if she would do it on trac by doing a standing bhs back tuck. Some of my more powerful tumblers on floor have to take out the r/o on trac to not go to high or have too much power and no control. Usually once they have the connection feeling, I take them to floor and then add the r/o. Just a thought and suggestion!

[KBT]

Since this seems to be a fear issue rather than a technical one, she probably needs to do a huge number of them in a safe situation to get the feel of the connection. As a coach, I have no problem spotting a kid over and over and gradually moving on to harder drills to avoid a total mental block. I like the idea of just doing lots of BHS-tucks. You could even try handstand step down-back tuck. You could eventually do a BHS on a rod floor or spring floor - back tuck into a pit. And I would certainly not push her to do the whole combo without a spot too quickly, even if she is capable of doing it on her own. This will take the pressure off having to get the skill and allow her to learn it in a safe environment and slowly get over the fear.

I would talk to her coaches about the skill and what types of drills and progressions they can do with her. It's always best to use them as your #1 resource for issues like this so you're both on the same page for in-the-gym and at-home training and reinforcement of the skill.

[Tumblequeensmom]

Hi everyone and thanks for all of your replies!

GymDog - DD says she DOES plan to stop after her backhandspring...She doesn't really bounce after the backhandspring... just kind of stops, pauses and then does the backtuck. I see that you said your BHS was too high as well... What does that mean? I'd think with a high BHS, you'd have more time to tuck over? I guess I just don't understand.

Coach Amy - she's going to try to standing BHS/tuck tomorrow at practice.. great idea.

KBT - She can already do the handstand step down back tuck. Unfortunately we have no pit at our gym and I haven't seen the coaches doing any type of progressions for this skill (one of my big complaints).... They kind of just say "do it and go!"

On a side note: I'm really concerned for the L6 bars as well. Our current L6's have taught themselves how to do a clear hip circle (they aren't pretty) as well as the "baby giant" on the higher bar. No wonder our girls score very low at L6. I'm hoping something will change with the large no. of L5 girls that will move up at the end of the season... otherwise a whole bunch of us will be looking for a new gym!

[gymdog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumblequeensmom GymDog - DD says she DOES plan to stop after her backhandspring...She doesn't really bounce after the backhandspring... just kind of stops, pauses and then does the backtuck. I see that you said your BHS was too high as well... What does that mean? I'd think with a high BHS, you'd have more time to tuck over? I guess I just don't understand.

Actually my BHS on track was still not ideal to some extent (too high, although not enough so that I couldn't set) even when I could do RO BHS double back on track easily. I just learned to compensate. Without fixing it though I couldn't have done say, RO BHS double lay probably (not that I really wanted to anyway). When the BHS is too high you are basically coming out in the wrong position. You have to pike down more on the other side and then you have to re-straighten the body for the set. Also, if you are used to a fairly correct BHS on floor, it just "feels wrong".

The BHS should be mainly horizontal momentum. It might be easier to think about it as a BHS going forwards. Without a stretch position at the beginning, you won't get over as easily or have as much horizontal momentum after the hands contact. A piked position at the start means the feet have to then be whipped over from the pike to an arch. In order to get around w/o a flexible lower back, the shoulders will pull forward and the butt will come out...put that backwards and the technique problems are pretty similar in terms of the entry into the BHS out of the RO being incorrect. You want to see your toes with a rounded back/shoulders but no pike and then stretch back (rather than jumping up and throwing the head out). After the hands contact there will be a similar stretch to the feet. My problem is, on track I CAN do this in the fairly textbook correct way, but I don't like to for some reason if there's a salto after it. Can't really explain it. I just don't like to have to think about it, and I didn't learn to tumble on track naturally when I first learned to tumble. L5 is the time to correct it. We kind of had coaches who let us slide on it. Eventually I had coaches who basically made me at least learn to compensate to be able to do twisting and double flipping off track.

[KBT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumblequeensmom Hi everyone and thanks for all of your replies! I see that you said your BHS was too high as well... What does that mean? I'd think with a high BHS, you'd have more time to tuck over? I guess I just don't understand. KBT - She can already do the handstand step down back tuck. Unfortunately we have no pit at our gym and I haven't seen the coaches doing any type of progressions for this skill (one of my big complaints).... They kind of just say "do it and go!" On a side note: I'm really concerned for the L6 bars as well. Our current L6's have taught themselves how to do a clear hip circle (they aren't pretty) as well as the "baby giant" on the higher bar.

A high BHS means that most of your momentum is going up (and you are therefore losing that power). The momentum should go backwards so you have a long, low BHS. Look at where her feet land compared to her hands in a BHS. I'm guessing the distance will be around 50% of her height. Ideally you want to be more like 75%. Also look at the height she gets as she jumps back into the bridge shape - I'm guessing the BHS height will be around 60% of her body while a good BHS is around 40%.
Compare the BHS in the last pass of this Level 4 routine: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xYL7E9JFpHo
To Shawn Johnson's BHS in her first tumbling pass: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MxRywYaBQCM&feature=related
This is not uncommon for a lower level gymnast - it takes time to get a good, strong BHS.

If your daughter can do a handstand-tuck and a BHS-tuck, the issue is probably the technique on the RO-BHS (and more specifically the RO). She needs to be landing the RO in a leaning back position so she can get good takeoff backwards into the BHS. If she lands the RO completely vertical, her BHS has to go upwards. Take a look at your daughter's RO-BHS and then have a chat with her coach about any technique issues.


Now on to the bar issues. Clear hips are a skill that most kids can do, but it's hard to do them well. Most kids can chuck one with the hips just above the bar; getting the hips far from the bar is quite another issue. This is the best drill I have ever seen for teaching the feel of clear hips: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-MqAQt-3yps
Plus it requires no spotting from a coach, a huge benefit since this skill requires a very labor-intensive spot. How are your daughter's back extension rolls on floor? That's the "timer" for clear hips.

[Tumblequeensmom]

Thanks for the explanation... that is EXACTLY what she is doing. I do hear her coaches yelling out to her "REACH BACK, REACH BACK!" So, obviously she KNOWS that she's not using the right BHS for a back tuck.... although in her last meet, her double back handsprings looked great to me... but then I'm "just a mom". I'll print off your responses and take them to the gym w/me tonight! Thanks everyone, and especially for explaining WHY a HIGH BHS isn't a good thing!

-Lynn

[KBT]

A good drill is to do RO followed by five or six BHSs. Each BHS should get flip over faster than the previous. To generate speed is good tumbling technique, and the only way to accomplish this is to have a BHS that goes back rather than up.

I'd also take a close look at the hurdle into the RO. It also needs to be long and low rather than up to generate power into the RO and to land the RO leaning slightly backwards so the BHS will go backwards. The root cause of not being able to do a tuck may occur as early as the hurdle