Parents Strength and Flexibility

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How do you define strength and flexibility in young gymnasts - aged 5-7 roughly? I am interested to know what they mean by good or natural strength and flexibility at that age range.
 
I've always considered my dd8 to be pretty strong and flexible naturally, she's a real powerhouse. Super fast runner, small petite frame, and she's always using her body weight to climb up our hallway wall to tag the ceiling and jump down. As far as strong goes, she weighs 46 lbs and can pick up her 78 lb sister easily. She's very bendy, watches tv with her legs pressed up and arched over her back while lying on the couch on her tummy ( just her head, tummy and arms touching the seat, everything else is pressed up over the back of the couch.) she taught herself the splits when she was 4, and is able to put her legs over her head. So that's my measure. My dd9 by comparison is very tight and has average core and arm strength, she's not flexible in the least.
 
I wouldn't call my dd naturally flexible or strong, she can do some hanging chin ups and do her pancake flat and her pike fold near enough flat and sometimes her left leg splits flat after warming up, but that is after a few months in her development group, in rec she couldn't do those things.
 
I think a 5yr old who has spent no time in the gym but can do all the splits is naturally flexible. But say a 7yr old who has spent 2 yrs at gymnastics (even once a week) who can do the 3 splits is flexible but through training.
I think some people build muscle more readily than others and that can develop into strength so I reckon some people/children are more predisposed to be "strong" than others.
 
I, and DD's coach, will say that DD is naturally strong but has to work hard at flexibility. I was teasing HC the other day saying that finally after thousands of dollars in five years of gymnastics, DD can finally do all three splits! But anything that requires strength? She's golden.

It seems like, except for a few exceptions, kids either excel at one OR the other.
 
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It seems like, except for a few exceptions, kids either excel at one OR the other.

Opposite extreme here. Both of my girls ages 4 and 7 were naturally able to do all 3 splits. The 7 year old might be too flexible. She doesn't have the core strength yet, so stuff like holding handstands is harder for her. Hopefully 1000s of dollars and years later :), she will get the core strength too.
 
My older gymmie is naturally flexible, but not naturally strong. My younger one is both, and actually a little too flexible. Her elbows hyper-extend on bars.
 
Older dd is naturally strong and had to work hard for her flexibility, younger dd was naturally flexible but had to really work on the strength. They both did the work and are both strong and flexible now but I think I'd prefer the natural strength myself as younger dd hated all the chin ups etc required to build her upper body strength.
 
Generally I/we have had requirements per level.

This is for competitive track kids.

4yo-
rope climb 1/2 way up with feet. Roughly 6 feet.
Test splits, ideally 120-150 degrees. Elevated bridge with straight arms, hands behind shoulders.
HS on wall to stomach for 30s.
20m sprint of 5s or under. It's necessarily easy getting those kids from 4-6yo to fully sprint because of their age and motivating to run as fast as possible.
Possibly standing broad jump instead of standing vertical jump test.
Hollow hold- I'd be happy if they can hold it with straight legs, hands on thighs for 20s.
Can do a pullover from standing.
5 Hanging leg lifts to L. More concern is about developing L-sit and V-ups. 5 V-ups? Momentary L-sit.
Not really concerned about pushup ability. Moreso, PB support of 15s.

5yo-
rope climb all the way up with feet and down. hopefully will go all the way up
Splits 150 degrees. Slightly elevated bridge with shoulders over hands.
HS on wall to stomach for 45s
20m sprint of 4.5 or under. Not exactly easy for tiny legs.
Broad jump, not really all that concerned about this at this point.
Hollow hold 30-45s
Pullover with bar higher than head.
15 V-ups, 5 Hanging Leg lifts to 45 degrees above horizontal. 5-10s L-sit/hang.
PB support of 30-45s. Able to do elevated pushups on mat or low beam.

6yo-
2 rope climbs in the row with feet without rest. Working on being able to pull themself off floor while starting in a straddle. 3-5 pullups, any grip.
2 skin the cats on rings
HS on wall to stomach for 60s. Free HS for 2s some of the time. Press HS on elevated mats.
20m sprint of 4.3 or under. Not too concerned with broad jump, but ideally beyond their height in inches.
Hollow hold 60s
Near long hang pullover with arms bent on mat under bar.
25 V-ups, HLL 2-3 reps toes touch bar, slight knee bend. 15s L-sit/hang
PB support of 60s. 5 strict pushups on floor, chest to floor or low beam
Splits 165 degrees ( that'd be great, anything is better than 135/150 ).
Bridge on floor, hands behind shoulder with knees bent.

7yo-
4 rope climbs with feet wo rest. 1/2 rope climb in straddle would be great. Heck, if it's even a light spot.
4 skin the cats on rings
HS on wall to stomach for 90s. Free HS consistently 1-2s, max of 5-10s. Straddle press HS working on straddle-L press HS with spot.
Hollow hold 90s
Sprint of 4.15s
Long Hang pullover
35 V-ups, HLL 10x toes touching bars. 30s L-sit/hang. Possibly 1 L hang to V on bar.
3-5 dips on PB. 10-15 strict pushups.
Splits near 180
Bridge on floor with shoulders over or beyond hands with straight legs.

These would be 10/10 scores for competitive track kids/pre team or on L2-4.
 
Gosh I think they are a big ask for kids that age. I would have absolutely no desire as a coach to put a 4 year old in a handstand for 30 seconds against the wall. I would be much more interested in the quality of shapes they make and their focus. I am quite happy for a kid to first step in the gym at 6.
 
Generally I/we have had requirements per level.

This is for competitive track kids.

4yo-
rope climb 1/2 way up with feet. Roughly 6 feet.
Test splits, ideally 120-150 degrees. Elevated bridge with straight arms, hands behind shoulders.
HS on wall to stomach for 30s.
20m sprint of 5s or under. It's necessarily easy getting those kids from 4-6yo to fully sprint because of their age and motivating to run as fast as possible.
Possibly standing broad jump instead of standing vertical jump test.
Hollow hold- I'd be happy if they can hold it with straight legs, hands on thighs for 20s.
Can do a pullover from standing.
5 Hanging leg lifts to L. More concern is about developing L-sit and V-ups. 5 V-ups? Momentary L-sit.
Not really concerned about pushup ability. Moreso, PB support of 15s.

5yo-
rope climb all the way up with feet and down. hopefully will go all the way up
Splits 150 degrees. Slightly elevated bridge with shoulders over hands.
HS on wall to stomach for 45s
20m sprint of 4.5 or under. Not exactly easy for tiny legs.
Broad jump, not really all that concerned about this at this point.
Hollow hold 30-45s
Pullover with bar higher than head.
15 V-ups, 5 Hanging Leg lifts to 45 degrees above horizontal. 5-10s L-sit/hang.
PB support of 30-45s. Able to do elevated pushups on mat or low beam.

6yo-
2 rope climbs in the row with feet without rest. Working on being able to pull themself off floor while starting in a straddle. 3-5 pullups, any grip.
2 skin the cats on rings
HS on wall to stomach for 60s. Free HS for 2s some of the time. Press HS on elevated mats.
20m sprint of 4.3 or under. Not too concerned with broad jump, but ideally beyond their height in inches.
Hollow hold 60s
Near long hang pullover with arms bent on mat under bar.
25 V-ups, HLL 2-3 reps toes touch bar, slight knee bend. 15s L-sit/hang
PB support of 60s. 5 strict pushups on floor, chest to floor or low beam
Splits 165 degrees ( that'd be great, anything is better than 135/150 ).
Bridge on floor, hands behind shoulder with knees bent.

7yo-
4 rope climbs with feet wo rest. 1/2 rope climb in straddle would be great. Heck, if it's even a light spot.
4 skin the cats on rings
HS on wall to stomach for 90s. Free HS consistently 1-2s, max of 5-10s. Straddle press HS working on straddle-L press HS with spot.
Hollow hold 90s
Sprint of 4.15s
Long Hang pullover
35 V-ups, HLL 10x toes touching bars. 30s L-sit/hang. Possibly 1 L hang to V on bar.
3-5 dips on PB. 10-15 strict pushups.
Splits near 180
Bridge on floor with shoulders over or beyond hands with straight legs.

These would be 10/10 scores for competitive track kids/pre team or on L2-4.

Wow! You're tough! :)

To digress for a moment out of curiosity, is a long hang pullover more dependent on shoulder strength, core strength, or just good momentum?
 
What are we looking for?

5-6 year olds from rec, wanting to make it to the preteam:

- HANDSTAND line! We try to look for kids who have naturally straight handstand line when doing it with stomach to wall

- Pull over by themselves or with a little bit of help

- One chin up would be great

- Bridge with straight hands and straight shoulder angle

- Maybe one split near the ground

- Rope climb with feet

- Agility and explosive takeoffs. This can easily be evaluated when you put a kid go round a obstacle course with boxes, rails, spring boards etc

- Straight lines overall, able to point toes and knees and able to do a graceful salute

- One or more leg lifts all the way up on stall bars would be good

7-8 year olds from rec:

All the above but also

- Several chin ups

- Several leg lifts

- Hanging pull over

- Able to climb rope without feet 5-20 steps

- Good bridge and kick over

- Splits down
 
What are we looking for?

5-6 year olds from rec, wanting to make it to the preteam:

- HANDSTAND line! We try to look for kids who have naturally straight handstand line when doing it with stomach to wall

- Pull over by themselves or with a little bit of help

- One chin up would be great

- Bridge with straight hands and straight shoulder angle

- Maybe one split near the ground

- Rope climb with feet

- Agility and explosive takeoffs. This can easily be evaluated when you put a kid go round a obstacle course with boxes, rails, spring boards etc

- Straight lines overall, able to point toes and knees and able to do a graceful salute

- One or more leg lifts all the way up on stall bars would be good

7-8 year olds from rec:

All the above but also

- Several chin ups

- Several leg lifts

- Hanging pull over

- Able to climb rope without feet 5-20 steps

- Good bridge and kick over

- Splits down

Kinda sounds like maybe strength is more important than flexibility?
 
Kinda sounds like maybe strength is more important than flexibility?

I was once told, by a very high level coach, that he preferred naturally strong girls as it's generally easier to train flexibility than strength (and the reverse for boys).

Flexibility is an odd one. Yes you get the naturally flexible freaks that can split and what have you without any previous training, but you can also get those who can become just as flexible with training, those that can train their entire lives and never achieve more than average flexibility, and varying degrees in between.

Strength is maybe similar, those that just are strong, those that become strong with training, and those that will always struggle to build strength.

My DD is very strong naturally- when she first tried her current sport the HC came over and asked if I were X's mum, and said she was the one all the coaches were looking at because "she has muscles on her muscles". I don't think it was really obvious in the gym, she had to learn *how* to do press ups and rope climbs, but once she figured it out she could do way more than everyone else. He flexibility was average, but improved rapidly once she started stretching properly.

So in answer to the O/P- I wouldn't be looking for kids that could do stuff straight away, I'd be looking for the ones who made the biggest improvements over several months. I think kids need to be taught how to use their strength in particular before you can tell whether they're "natural"
 
This is interesting to me. My DD started at 4, when she started she had her middle splits almost down, right leg came within a few months, and left within a couple more. She seems reasonably flexible, and nothing they were training required more than what she was able to do. I think she was the first on her pre-team to have all 3 splits. Now she is VERY strong. Gained about 8 lbs in a year after starting gymnastics (though she still weighs very little for her age) and is very toned. Since becoming so muscular, she has to work a little harder to maintain her flexibility, as it just seems that her muscles almost get in the way. She's not losing any flexibility, but she's not as loose as she once was.
 
I was a very "bendy" kid. My older siblings used to love torturing me. At 3, my 6 yr old brother would sit on my back, facing my feet, grab them, and lay down (arching his back over my head)-pulling my legs with him. From there, my 8 yr old sister would take my feet and let my brother work his way off of me so they could put my feet on the ground by my ears. [They were EVIL] Then, they would let go of 1 leg and see how close they could get it to back down where it belonged. They also stretched my legs with me on my back as far as they would go. I can STILL do my left leg splits (which I demonstrate to the team girls a couple times a year to show them it IS possible, even if you are bigger). So, I don't know if my flexibility is NATURAL... or if it was TRAINED into me. I do know that my strength was natural though. At 3, I could pick my sister up and walk around with her.

Now neither of my gymmies are very flexible, but they are strong. YG was 5 (and 40 lbs) and could pick up every single girl on the team, including HS girls that weighed over 110 lbs. At 2, she had climbed to the top of the rope. She "sat" up there, swinging around, for 5 minutes until HC came over and told her that, if she didn't come down, she would never be allowed to climb the rope again. Her teacher had never had anyone in her class (supposed to be 3 & 4 year olds) climb that high before - she usually had to encourage them to go more than 3 feet off the ground.
 
Coming out of developmental last year we had meetings with one of the head coaches to determine placement. At that time she told me the majority of kids are either naturally strong or naturally flexible, one or the other, but that my daughter was both. I don't know how to evaluate strength, but I will say I noticed she could do full splits naturally at around 18 months old!
 
I was a very "bendy" kid. My older siblings used to love torturing me. At 3, my 6 yr old brother would sit on my back, facing my feet, grab them, and lay down (arching his back over my head)-pulling my legs with him. From there, my 8 yr old sister would take my feet and let my brother work his way off of me so they could put my feet on the ground by my ears. [They were EVIL] Then, they would let go of 1 leg and see how close they could get it to back down where it belonged. They also stretched my legs with me on my back as far as they would go. I can STILL do my left leg splits (which I demonstrate to the team girls a couple times a year to show them it IS possible, even if you are bigger). So, I don't know if my flexibility is NATURAL... or if it was TRAINED into me. I do know that my strength was natural though. At 3, I could pick my sister up and walk around with her. Now neither of my gymmies are very flexible, but they are strong. YG was 5 (and 40 lbs) and could pick up every single girl on the team, including HS girls that weighed over 110 lbs. At 2, she had climbed to the top of the rope. She "sat" up there, swinging around, for 5 minutes until HC came over and told her that, if she didn't come down, she would never be allowed to climb the rope again. Her teacher had never had anyone in her class (supposed to be 3 & 4 year olds) climb that high before - she usually had to encourage them to go more than 3 feet off the ground.
 
Dd1 is naturally very strong, but totally un flexible and it's getting worse with age! DD2 is naturally flexible, has always been able to do all 3 splits with no gymnastics has super flexible shoulders and what she calls lucky legs! Her heel extension is huge, judges love it in range and conditioning, so if she is in splits her heels are completely off the floor, but she is having to work super hard at strength.
 
So in answer to the O/P- I wouldn't be looking for kids that could do stuff straight away, I'd be looking for the ones who made the biggest improvements over several months. I think kids need to be taught how to use their strength in particular before you can tell whether they're "natural"

Dd moved up from rec few months ago doing once a week 2 1/2 hour sessions and her first lot of conditioning and has recently (3 weeks ago ) started going twice a week (2 x 2 1/2 hours).

When my dd first started she was able to do:

Left leg splits - near to the ground
Bridge - Arms straight and legs straigh and together.

Now she can do:

Left leg splts - Flat after warming up
Right leg splits - very near to flat after warming up ( she was a good 4-5 inches away before)
Box Splits - very close
Bridge - Kicked over for the first time during her last session
Rope climb - half way up (don't do it very often)
Hanging Chin ups - she can do 3 from not being able to do any before
Pullover from bars just above her head
Pike fold - near enough flat
Pancake stretch with chest to floor

My dd seems to improve quicker on the flexibility side but she is also gaining strength.

What do you all think about dd's progress, is it ok for her age (7) and level (indermediate development squad)?
 

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