MAG level 5 to 7

[gracyomalley]

Any thoughts on how likely this move is for a 13 year old? He's been a slow learner gym wise (started late - competed L4 at age 10/11) but is getting strong now, and more dedicated (which is some ways is unfortunate because I had hoped to eventually cut back on the family gym budget!)

He already has a Yami vault, He has his ROBHSLO and ROBHSBT - beautifully, and his FHS-FT-FT on floor. Pretty much all the other L7 floor stuff too (in boys do you call it "dance"?). Has the L6 pbars already and the L6 pummel pretty much - with minimal chance to work on it so far. Giants on strap bar and has a free hip on high bar already....good fly away and casts to almost handstand, really nice form all around. Not quite the muscle up yet though on rings, but does have both inlocates. His coach from previous years (gone now - in transition but the "kid" coaching them is great and enthusiastic) kept the whole L5 team back last year - ostensibly because he wanted them to "have every bonus", but I think he wanted to win at state...which we won't, but the boys on 3rd year level 5 are doing quite well, of course...

He's excited that the temporary/maybe permanent coach offered him the option of working toward L7 (we have about 10 months until he'd compete it). He's loving gym maybe even more than his sister who will be a L8 next year...He also is a serious violinist who spends 3 hours a day on music...I think he just wants to avoid any school work this year!!!!

I know I've heard that once they hit puberty the boys can really blossom....just wondering how often it really happens!?

 

[skschlag]

SO in level 7, here are some of the skills he would need..
floor: it is a fhs step out front handspring ft, or just fhsft. Back full is bonus. otherwise he is good.
Pommel: Loops on the pommel horse without handles (front,side and back)
Rings: backuprise, dislocate, inlocate, shoulder stand
vauilt he is good
pbars: moy or moy support (or giants, etc) kip, handstands, layout dismount
hb: front and back giants, free hip, flyaway.

I know there are more. I think if he is working it, he could get close! We had 2 older boys do it 2 years ago. They are repeating 7 now, as the 1st year was hard, but you never know. I say shoot for it, knowing you can compete 6 if not ready!

Good luck to him

 

[J&A's mom]

I think its easier to go from 6-8 than to go from 5-7, generally....at least that is how I understand it. I heard that to be true especially for kids that are good at high bar. My oldest is a level 6, so I can only go by hearsay, though....

But, like skschlag said, he seems to have a lot of the Level 6 skills. Perhaps train for 7 with the understanding that he may do 6 next year based on how things go.

 

[profmom]

Has he done much work on the pommel-less horse? The circle skills do translate from the mushroom, but it's not instantaneous. L6 pbars with the bonuses? It sounds like he's in pretty good shape on some events though rings might be tough (back uprise is harder than the muscle up).

 

[gracyomalley]

Thanks for the replies - I think he has done circles on the pommel. I agree - rings will be hard, and I don't know about high bar - he's strong at L5 high bar....but my DD has been stuck on her giants for a year now, so same could happen to him...I'm just happy for him that he's really learning now and has a coach who will let him see what he can do...we are in a tiny state, so there are few upper level boys at all....he's got his kip on Pbars, good handstands, pbar fly away (not layout yet...)....so sounds like he should at least shoot for it! Would be nice to compete with boys his age more often!

 

[profmom]

Boys get giants more easily than girls because of the nature of the respective bars. If it's a strong event for him, it probably won't be nearly as much of a struggle for him as it was for her.

 

[sbonham]

Grac(e),

I hope this doesn't come off as negative - but call me the "devil's advocate..."
You didn't mention what level your son is working now??? L5 or 6??
From what you have said;
FX: sounds like a strong tumbler - how is his press handstand? Endo roll?
PH: L6 PH "pretty much"?? Does that mean he is doing moore, direct Stockli A, flairs and Russian wendeswing on mushroom/on horse without pommels - THAT is a huge transition BTW?
SR: He doesn't yet have muscle up on SR - how about a press to handstand (feet on cables)? Both inlocates? Would that mean a dislocate? How's his back lever? Can he swing with shoulders ABOVE ring height yet?
V: has Yami - this parallels his FX which is strong - I am assuming he has a solid rebounding handspring?
PB: Can do L6 P-bars... hmmm (Swing to all of the handstand ops? Hold V/Manna?, Full Moy or Giant?
HB: Giants in straps, almost cast hst, free hip (to hst?), flyaway... how's his kips and his half turn (near to blind change height?)

I coached on the college level for a decade and then taught biomechanics... and when I was coaching found FAR TOO OFTEN that of basics (like those found in L4-6) kids had sacrificed mastery for higher skill/difficulty. Jerry George identifies this as the cause of the "compensatory trap." Guys learn the basics just well enough to get the next "trick" and they keep doing this until they cannot progress anymore (due to weak foundation) or sadly due to avoidable injuries that occur because of the "glory trap" they fell for. Too often "shortcuts" (which are almost always dead-ends in reality) are taken because the kids/parents are paying a lot of money and want to advance to the next level... and the coach is pressured to promote prior to mastery. This can a huge problem for future development.

My advice would be to have him evaluated by a coach familiar with the technical sequences (which demand excellence in basic skills) and go from there. Judges scores - while certainly an indicator are not always the best predictor of readiness for the jump to the next level. Your state or regional chairman can suggest someone if you need assistance.

Hope this helps!
Ganba!!
Steve

 

[samuel310]

My ds just turned 10 last week and will be going from 5 to 7 but mostly because he wants to compete in future stars and 10 year old fs is equivalent to L7...could be a big failure but if it is we will forget about fs and move up to L6...my ds btw has all bonuses for L5

 

[gracyomalley]

Thanks again for the replies. and Steve, I get all that you are saying! He has much of what you are asking about. He has competed L5 for 3 years but this year trained on L6-L7 stuff one day a week. He has a nice press handstand, and great straight arm kips on both kinds of bars. Nice swings to handstands on PB with long straight hold. I know he has "done" many of the skills you mention - but other than the tumbling and vault, I haven't seen them or how "close" they really are. The practice he uptrains is one that only the L7-10 boys attend - they let him go because of age and work ethic..and its shorter with lots of conditioning, etc. He keeps up with the other boys quite well with conditioning.

He has generally been much better at tumbling than support skills, took a while to learn mushroom...and has hyperflexible elbows and shoulders that get in the way. I personally think it will be a big jump...

One thing I can say, is his fundamentals are actually very strong - straight legs, good casts/swings, good positioning on all events...believe me, we see boys with scary form at levels 6/7 here....I think what he gets he'll get quite well...I just don't know how fast he can learn it if he sets his mind to it and has a coach that will allow him to try...he's pretty fearless but not at all reckless.

Lastly, as he is presently a 7th grader, and his aspirations are a violin performance career, its not so much about getting him to level 10 for college gym as about his continued enjoyment and feeling successful as a gymnast. There are few level 7-10s in our whole state, but even fewer 14 year old L6s....Gym is good exercise/strength building and he has good friends there. He's also densely dyslexic and the combo of music and gym has been great for him for confidence building. In the end, as he will need to go 4 days a week for either level next year, as his mom I want him working his bootie off while there - so I'm all for setting the goals high - otherwise he can stay home and work on schoolwork!!!

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

Hi @gracyomalley

I think Level 7 is a fabulous goal for your son. My son was able to successfully skip level 6. My son's strengths are different than your sons but like your son my son had good fundamentals and excellent work ethic. My son was strong on pbars and pommel horse but not so good on floor and highbar. The first couple meets he didn't compete floor or highbar but he was fine with that. By State meet he was competing all events and took 3rd place AA. If your son's coach decides to have him move to level 7, the season might start off not great in the AA but it can get there.

Good luck!

 

[BlairBob]

At 14, skip to L8

 

[gracyomalley]

I don't think the gyms HC would consider skipping to 8, although I do see that teens do it in our state and that L8 might actually be easier in some ways! The boys team coach has only 3 months experience (but actually got nominated as state coach of the year so he has great potential), and was the one who suggested he try for L7. He did do the L7 floor routine in full yesterday, and the L6 high bar without giants - on week 2 after L5, and won the team pull up contest. If he works hard enough and seems to be getting the skills on th support events, I may just see what they say about it!

 

[BlairBob]

Train for L7, consider L8 an option. No shame in L6

 

[Sperkowsky]

I went from level 5 to 8 when I was 12 it's a huge jump but 5 to 7 doesn't make much sence 7 isn't really an older kids level if that's how I can say it

Most level 7s are very young and they are using level 7 to get cleaner and get the little boost to optionals

When ur 13 you can compete level 9 which means you will even be an older level 8 also (a good thing if he wants medals)

I also got held back at 5 with a huge team btw

The thing is that level 8 season was disastrous I finished last in the state didn't make regionals and rarely medaled

The next year (this year) I did level 9 and that went fairly well I made regionals and did a lot better. I. Would of done much better if I didn't fracture my skull in the beginning of the season.


So put it this way

It's possible
He can do it
It will be a hard season
If he thinks he's ready then go for it (but IMO I would tell him to do level 8 there's just so much more flexibility with skills as an optionals gymnast)

 

[gracyomalley]

I went from level 5 to 8 when I was 12 it's a huge jump but 5 to 7 doesn't make much sence 7 isn't really an older kids level if that's how I can say it

Most level 7s are very young and they are using level 7 to get cleaner and get the little boost to optionals

When ur 13 you can compete level 9 which means you will even be an older level 8 also (a good thing if he wants medals)

I also got held back at 5 with a huge team btw...


Well...in our state there aren't that many L7s at all compared to 6s and 8s, but it seems like going all the way to 8 may be too much...possibly because of the coaches lack of experience? He did great at regionals L5, and in 2 weeks of new skills work has all his L7 floor plus is doing fulls in the pit, and has the vault plus working Tsuks in the pit, has the L7 rings other than the back uprise (and almost that), is casting to handstand and doing front giants, and has the L6 Pbars and Pommel - these are his difficult events, so working up from there. He says he doesn't care much about medals next year, just wants to be doing the new things he's working on...I suppose it will depend on if he can keep up this pattern of gaining skills rapidly this summer...there are 2 other boys (14) who are going to be 8s and he's working with them and the L10 on the team...

 

[Sperkowsky]

From what you said level 8 seems to be better for him he will have teammates to cheer him on and he can do a really good floor while doing a pretty easy pomel horse routine

The good thing about optionals is you can make your routines to suit what you are good at for instance the back uprise on rings for now he can keep working it but when it comes time to compete he could modify a routine without it if necessary.

Good thing he doesn't care about medals though because if he did l6 is the better option

I personally didn't care and it boosted me in the sport quickly

Now I went from being an 10/11 year old level 4 to a 13/14 year old level 9 big jump as you can see

I started at 10 years old

I do gymnastics because it's fun and optionals is fun to me learning new skills making your own personal routines adding your own style all of that makes the sport that much more fun for me and it sounds like he is very much like me

Good luck to him


Ps I think he is further along then I was before my level 8 season the skills will come quick

 

[gracyomalley]

Thanks I will pass this all along to him - I know he'll appreciate it!

 

[skschlag]

Looking at the levels and having watched D do one year at 6 and one at 7, I think 8 could be a huge jump. There are requirements at 8 now that might not have been there before. We had several kids that stayed 7 when they could have gone 8 because they didn't have the skill requirements. For one it was high bar. the blind change and front and back giants. For the other it was floor.

Not impossible, but hard. I am sure the coach will have him in the best spot.

 

[Sperkowsky]

Looking at the levels and having watched D do one year at 6 and one at 7, I think 8 could be a huge jump. There are requirements at 8 now that might not have been there before. We had several kids that stayed 7 when they could have gone 8 because they didn't have the skill requirements. For one it was high bar. the blind change and front and back giants. For the other it was floor.

Not impossible, but hard. I am sure the coach will have him in the best spot.

There's no technical requirements for level 8 those are just your coaches requirements technically I've seen kids do level 6 routines in level 8 on some events just to get by but then do a crazy good routine on another event it's how the level goes

 

[skschlag]

There are requirements for skills. They have to have so many in different groups. And you are right, our coach doesn't let a kid compete a level 8 routine without all of the requirements. So if they can't meet the routine construction requirements on an event, they don't compete that event.

And you are right, I have seen level 8s doign level 6 routines. But really...why? I think it is better to do a level you can do and learn the skills you need rather than pushing. BUt this is coming from a mother, who likes to see her son stay safe while learning skills and progressing. D could have done 8 this year, had a hard year, not done all events, and been bottom of the pack. But now, he has solid skills on all events, and will be able to do 8 more successfully.

Again, I think the coach will figure out what is best. It is so different from gym to gym, coach to coach.