Coaches Vault form help!

[gymnastike30]

 

[gymnastike30]

 

[catou]

When I try to watch your videos it says they're private

 

[gymnastike30]

I know...I'm trying to figure out how to fix that.

 

[gymnastike30]

OK! i think ive fixed it!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Are you teaching her heel drive right off of the board, then the following will not help. If not then do the following.

Warm her up high, then drop it lower than it is. Play a game with her based on straight arms and straight body, also put a REALLY soft mat in the landing area. If she can vault without bending her arms or arching her body, then she gets 50 points, and it does not matter if she lands on her feet. Play it with the whole group. Each kids who accomplishes this gets 50 points (or gold stars), regardless on how they land. Do that for weeks (but change the reward to make the game fresh, example the team gets 5 min of tramp time if everyone gets to 350 points etc....)

If you are teaching her to arch off of the board, then play the same game but only include the elbows. However you are going to get a .3 deduction for her body shape.

 

[iwannacoach]

I'd like to see her last four strides/steps. I think what the video shows is that she doesn't come off the board with enough energy to satisfy the following requirements:

Heel drive that happens as a result of hurdling low and reaching her feet to the board more quickly.

Pre flight that rises until the block phase rather than dropping or moving in flat with no heel rise to counter during the block.

Post block forward momentum to make the distance the judges like to see.

I consider the run and hurdle to be the currency that kids use to buy things like a good block, straight arms, good shape, post flight height and distance. For those kids on a low budget there will be trade offs. A good block may result in decent height but the distance will suffer. The shape may be great but the arms will have to bend to keep that shape. You can only buy so much of a $100.00 vault when all you have to bargain with is a $85.00 run.

So my guess is she needs to improve her rhythm, for confidence, consistent timing, speed, and to hit the sweet spot she needs to make her hurdle press into the board rather than rise up and drop down to it.

 

[gymnastike30]

Yes! Her last several steps are off. And she hesitates before she hurdles. We've had the hardest time figuring out where to start her. Trying to find another video of it.

 

[gymnastike30]

 

[iwannacoach]

Yes! Her last several steps are off. And she hesitates before she hurdles. We've had the hardest time figuring out where to start her.

Post the video if you'd like, but I'll tell you the same thing now as I would after seeing them.....

Finding the right place to start relies on the kid running as fast as she can because that is the only speed they can predictably repeat time after time. Her ruuning speed determines how long her strides are, and her stride length determines where she needs to start her run. So if she runs a little slower her steps will be slightly smaller and she'll end up hurdling from a foot farther away from the board (in theory). If she runs any slower than that she'll sense during steps 6, 5, or 4 that her hurdle will to be too long to make it to the board. That's when she'll lose any rhythm she has because her options are to lengthen the remaining steps, hurdle off the wrong foot, or to shrnik the remaining steps to leave room for two extra steps that will get her closer to the board.

Those options aren't going to give her a change to hurdle in rhythm and from the right spot with enough speed to give each phase of the vault the energy needed for success.

I had the same problem when I first coached a group of team level kids at the beginning spring, and became frustrated by mid April because their runs were so of rhythm and slow they could have gotten just as much speed from a five step run. I realized then that maybe I could get them to keep track of fewer steps and end up hurdling from the same spot and on the same foot every time.

I gave them something easier than a handspring to do that could be done at the end of a five step run, but somehow a few of the kids managed to lose track in that short of a run........ so I moved the board in really close and had them run just three steps, hurdle and punch, and rebound to a stand on the horse (no table in those days). I told them they'd do that drill until they were able to run "full speed" for those three steps and hurdle with confidence and rhythm. I only took about 5 minutes to get their starting points figured out, and another five minutes to get through about 8 "vaults" and prove they were ready for a five step run.

I had them work the 5 step run onto a port-a-pit with a couple of 8" mats stacked on top, and added an 8" mat when ever they became comfortable with the previous height. This made them feel the need to run as fast as they could manage because the stack quickly went up to a height of about 5 feet.

I wrote down their starting points and did a little math..... starting point minus the distance from the vault horse to their hurdle equals the number of feet for five strides. So I divided five into that distance and came up with an average two stride distance of 9.5'. I figured 9.5' would be a good guess for the amount of distance to add for an additional 2 strides so they could do a 7 step run for a handspring vault.

They all seemed to be a little cramped into the board on their first try so I had them all back up 1' and try again. They worked well with that adjustment and after a few more small tweaks all of the kids who'd earlier struggled from 74-80 feet for consistency were able to do a better handspring vault from a 7 step run starting from about 45'. So that's where I let them start for handsprings until a few weeks later when I had them all back up 10 feet and take a 9 step run into the handspring. I had to adjust most of the kids by up to a foot...... some a little closer, and some a little farther.

It ended up that they would warm up each day by doing a few "vaults" from each starting position for 3, 7, 9, a and 11 steps. Handsprings were done from 9 steps, tsuk drills from 11 steps, and when they were ready to turn tsuks over they started at 11 steps and they moved on to 13 steps. The process worked and was well worth the time spent.

 

[iwannacoach]

I was writing my post and didn't see the video until a moment ago. Watch he height of her right knee as she comes down the runway. It gets lower four steps away from her hurdle, and lower still at 2 steps away. So she's slowing down. It looks like she slowed down to shrink her run, but shrunk too much and had to leap a bit from her last left foot to make up fr miscalculating her "shrink."

I also notice her left knee doesn't come up as high as her right knee. This is a symptom of something, and I'm not sure if it's a really weak left leg or not pushing into the left stride with her right foot. Mess around with that for a bit and you'll get it figured out. It may be as simple as getting her to run with her core muscles tight enough to bring everything together. That's a separate issue, so I'd say you need to work both her stride function and her run length.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

I'd like to see her last four strides/steps. I think what the video shows is that she doesn't come off the board with enough energy to satisfy the following requirements:Heel drive that happens as a result of hurdling low and reaching her feet to the board more quickly.Pre flight that rises until the block phase rather than dropping or moving in flat with no heel rise to counter during the block.Post block forward momentum to make the distance the judges like to see.I consider the run and hurdle to be the currency that kids use to buy things like a good block, straight arms, good shape, post flight height and distance. For those kids on a low budget there will be trade offs. A good block may result in decent height but the distance will suffer. The shape may be great but the arms will have to bend to keep that shape. You can only buy so much of a $100.00 vault when all you have to bargain with is a $85.00 run.

Iwanna; I wanted to acknowledge that your post is excellent. Tis the bomb!

Best, SBG -

 

[Short Balding Guy]

I was writing my post and didn't see the video until a moment ago. Watch he height of her right knee as she comes down the runway. It gets lower four steps away from her hurdle, and lower still at 2 steps away. So she's slowing down. It looks like she slowed down to shrink her run, but shrunk too much and had to leap a bit from her last left foot to make up fr miscalculating her "shrink."I also notice her left knee doesn't come up as high as her right knee. This is a symptom of something, and I'm not sure if it's a really weak left leg or not pushing into the left stride with her right foot. Mess around with that for a bit and you'll get it figured out. It may be as simple as getting her to run with her core muscles tight enough to bring everything together. That's a separate issue, so I'd say you need to work both her stride function and her run length.

Adding to the previous excellent analysis: She does not get close to her max-speed. The arm carry(right arm swings out and low), knee lift, turnover speed and accompanying posture just point to a slow vault run. On the arm swing - when our athletes have straighter arms and do not pump the arms to match the knee and drive, I suggest they look like they are jogging with "shopping bags." I show them on the iPad (coaches Eye). I have them pick-up some 1 or alb hand weights and run in the mirror. The Shopping Bag description is easily taken and understood by our girls. Once they change the arm swing we have a good time imagining what "goodies" are in their shopping bags. I do not see the accelerating run that in our Region see that accompanies a top scoring vault. A consistently accelerating fast run with strong hurdle as the primary focus of upcoming practices should easily improve the skill.

SBG -

 

[CoachTodd]

The first thing I notice is that the board may be too far from the table. She's spending too much time in the air. During this time she gets the arch then reaches down to the table making the arch show even more. See if moving the board closer gives a quicker preflight. (instantaneous would be nice ). The heal drive looks pretty good from what I can tell. It just seems like she's floating the vault. If she gets to the table sooner (i.e. before the arch shows, she should bounce then she can pull to a hollow for the front handspring to float down.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[gymnastike30]

Makes complete sense! I really appreciate all the feedback on this thread.

 

[CreateMagic]

Makes complete sense! I really appreciate all the feedback on this thread.

Isn't this place awesome?

 

[gymnastike30]

Isn't this place awesome?

Sure is!