Parents Helping daughter get through a tough spot

[Somewhat clueless]

Hi, I just found this forum when doing a Google search on fears and coaches not spotting. I did find some threads addressing this, but they were somewhat old, and I'm not sure if they are the exact situation, so I wanted to give some background for my question.

I titled myself "somewhat clueless" because although dd10 has been competing since AAU Level 2 and just finished USAG Level 6, I have remained a supporter and encourager but tried not to be overly involved in order to make this "her sport." (I found some threads on this too! ) I have slowly learned terminology after she rolls her eyes at me for calling something a "flippy thing." (that was a souk vault!), etc. I have always been supportive of coaches, tried not to ask too many questions, and pretty much stayed hands-off.

DD is very competitive, does very well in school and is probably harder on herself than anyone else could be and I have heard this about her from early on. So, here's the issue. After learning the flyaway last summer to score out of the old USAG 6, and continuing to do it throughout the season, she apparently did something about a month ago that caused her to fly across the mat on her belly. This was right before the state meet and caused her a certain amount of stress. The coach pretty much gave her a deadline to get it or she would not be able to compete bars, but did not want to spot her at all. I did end up emailing HC about her frustration, and the coach agreed to encourage her and spot her so she made it through state. However, my fun kid who is always happy, doing handstands, etc. all of the time, seems to have lost her "spark." We decided to let her take off a week to just rest and relax since she is just 10 after all. Through all of this, before state and now, she has been so frustrated that she has not wanted to go to practice. The coach is still refusing to spot her and she now feels like she is just being put in a corner and ignored during bars. She told me that she feels "lost" in the air and feels unsafe. I have read a little about the vestibular thing on here and we have allergies during this time, so that makes sense.

Okay, so the question. How do I handle this with the coach? I don't want to tell the coach what to do, but this is obviously not working. Her self-esteem has been shot, and she feels like the coach doesn't want her or like her anymore. I'm sure the coach is trying this approach to get her to be confident in herself, but she was told there was no reason for a spot since this is a lower level skill and she has done it before. This is a hard-working kid who really WANTS to do it but has a feeling of being powerless and unwanted. She competed Level 6 with what are apparently some level 7 skills (handspring on beam, layout on floor) so she has worked hard to get to this point. I don't think she wants to quit, but it seems like she is feeling that she is bad, will never progress, and should just hang it up. Can you all give me some advice and perspective? She has expressed the desire to continue to level 10.

Thanks for reading and sorry so long!!!

 

[MaryA]

Aw... poor kiddo. I know that fly-away fear can be a tough one to overcome sometimes. She may just need to take it back to square one with drills and work back up to it. If privates are an option, that might help. If she would be allowed to do a private with a different coach, that may help too, just to avoid your daughter feeling like the coach as preconceived notions about what she can and can't do. I know asking for a different coach can be a sticky situation, so it may not be do-able. I know which coach I would love for my DD to have privates with, but she is the coach for a different level, so it would be frowned upon in our gym.

Unfortunately, other than encouraging your DD and possibly talking to the coach about what is going on and/or scheduling (and paying for) private lessons, there is very little YOU can do about this situation. It is mainly in her hands. She is at the level where skills start being more difficult and scary, so even though this might be the first time she's developed a fear/block like this, if she sticks with it, it won't be the last. If she's going to stay in this sport, she's going to have to figure out how to struggle with a skill without feeling like a total failure, because if she doesn't, she's going to feel like a failure A LOT. DD has a friend who really internalizes her gymnastics struggles and I think it is turning her (and her mom) into a basket case...

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

What @MaryA said.

Ultimately, there is nothing you can say or do to help her regain the skill. :-( She just needs to know you love her and your proud of her regardless. Kipper went through this with her CW on beam. Did it for 8 months, then split the beam twice and wouldn't do it for 4 months. I tried to help...but ultimately she did it when she was ready to do it. A private lesson with a different coach is what finally motivated her to do it. Not sure why or how...but she hasn't been afraid of them since, and has moved on to BWO and BHS.

Your dd's coach has probably been down this road a few times and knows that she will eventually find the will and courage to go for it. Unless they are uber-talented most gymnasts need a lot of strong work ethic and "will to succeed" just to get as far as your dd has. Unfortunately, they also seem to have strong desires to please others. This desire to please can often lead to misinterpretation of a coaches refusal to spot. They think, "I haven't pleased you, so you don't like me any more." or " Since I won't do "x" skill, you are ignoring me". Instead, the coach probably feels like doing it once without a spot will help your dd a hundred times more than doing 3 with a spot. Some coaches think that getting a spot for a skill you can perform safely strengthens the association between the skill and fear. Better to go back to drills and work up to it.

My dd is another one who doesn't like to express herself to her coach, especially if it is about some kind of fear. I've been trying to help her learn to communicate, so that the coach can help her better. I've also been trying to help her understand that fear is a natural part of this sport, and the mental part is MUCH harder than the physical. (as if the physical isn't hard enough!!!)

I would suggest that you make sure she doesn't let this one thing define her image of herself, or her relationship with her coach. One valuable lesson I learned from a L9 parent is to be as nonchalant as possible about missing or elusive skills. I just tell her I am certain it will show up when she is ready to do it. Inside, I may be freaking out...What do you mean you can't do X anymore! You've been doing it for months! Outside, I try to be cool and confident, making sure that my own anxiety doesn't make it worse. The more I practice, the easier it gets because skills DO come, and they DO come back. Just not always in the timing she would like.

 

[htimcj]

I would also just reminder her that she has done them before, she can do them again. I am not sure if this will help but I know when my DD struggled or first started to fall, I pointed out all of the other girls who have fallen or gotten stuck and that they worked through it eventually as well. It helped her feel that she wasn't alone in falling/getting scared that everyone falls and everyone gets scared.

 

[iwannacoach]

Just lay it on the coaches doorstep with a complete assessment of your dd's frame of mind....... like how she doesn't want to come to gym and how she feels lost during the skill. Include your truthful reaction to your daughter's state of mind. Tell the coach you haven't the ability to understand the coach's position, and wonder how or whether to support the coach in something you know nothing about. Conclude that you do understand what it means to be a parent to your child and know what works best and is most productive for your child.

 

[Shoebug]

My DD took a fall on a skill on bars when she was lvl 6, landed on her shoulder pretty hard. Although there were no physical injuries, her pride and confidence took a major hit. Same boat, she was afraid to try anything without a coach right by her, and when she would cry (she was 9yo) the coach would make her go sit by herself until she was done. I had a problem with it, but I could see the coach's point of view. She did not want to "reward" the fear/unwillingness to attempt a skill with increased attention, but rather she would reward the attempt at the skill. I personally feel that coaching the child in gymnastics is the coaches job; as parents, it's our job to coach them in life. A lot of the time, those jobs overlap, but I dare not stray into the coach's realm as it may undermine what he/she is trying to do. So I needed to find a way to deliver my message while staying within my bounds.
I made it a point to show her videos of gymnastics "fails" by upper level gymnasts, and even went so far as to watch some level 9's and 10's during competitions. When she saw some of those gymnasts miss the bars entirely on their release moves and slam into the mat, her eyes were wide open. But what really got to her is how they immediately got up, got back on the bars, and attempted the same maneuver. Sometimes they made it, sometimes it took multiple attempts. But the point I made sure she got was that EVERYONE falls, that doesn't matter. What matters is whether they got back up. That was 2.5 years ago, and she just finished competing level 8 at regionals in Fargo, ND this month. Blocks/Lost skills happen to ALL gymnasts. Overcoming a block is ultimately up to the gymnast, it's the coaches and parents jobs to guide them through it together.

 

[flippingtogether]

What @MaryA said.

....the mental part is MUCH harder than the physical. (as if the physical isn't hard enough!!!)

One valuable lesson I learned from a L9 parent is to be as nonchalant as possible about missing or elusive skills. I just tell her I am certain it will show up when she is ready to do it. Inside, I may be freaking out...What do you mean you can't do X anymore! You've been doing it for months! Outside, I try to be cool and confident, making sure that my own anxiety doesn't make it worse. The more I practice, the easier it gets because skills DO come, and they DO come back. Just not always in the timing she would like.

This is all brilliantly said. Thank you.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

I'm sure the coach is trying this approach to get her to be confident in herself, but she was told there was no reason for a spot since this is a lower level skill and she has done it before.

How do the other coaches on the board feel about this idea? I personally feel that while it may be a lower level skills it can be dangerous and scary for kids, there is also important timing required. For me, its not about how difficult a skill is, it is the potential for injury.

 

[profmom]

I don't know where it makes sense to classify the flyaway, but I do know that DD's bars coach is really twitchy about them. When the girls are getting the skill, he is always right there and won't let them go on their own until he's convinced that they are really ready. At the beginning of this season, DD was having some trouble with her flyaway out of her giant, and he dialed her back to a swing flyaway out of a 3/4 giant. In fact, he seems to be twitchier about flyaways than double backs!

If there's a coach who's willing to work with her on the precursor drills during some privates and help her get confident in her timing again, that's probably the best way to go. I wouldn't go with privates, though, unless this does NOT seem to be happening in her regular bars rotations.

 

[gracyomalley]

DD never had fly away issues - but pretty much every other L7 skill went through tough times over the last year (she is 11)...even after a successful season as a L7 at 10. Initially with a fear her coach seemed to take the "you'll do it again when you are ready" approach - but if it is dangerous or a timing thing they backed up and did drills, etc...even so far as to her stopping doing giants at all for 5 months until she was rock solid again on strap bar and pit bar....

There was girl at States L7 who competed all year without a flyaway - could only be fear because she upgraded the rest of her bars as much as allowable in L7....she got 2nd AA...

This is a hard age - they suddenly doubt themselves in everything - not just gym. They see the possibility of injury that has always been there. Its maddening to listen to my 2 olders talk - DD 11 and DS 13 are both working respective L8 skills - DS will try almost anything (although he's not reckless, but he is confident) and DD needs to be coaxed along with certain skill sets...and does not like thinking about what she'll do at L9-10 (although she says her dream is still college gym). My only advice is to be open and supportive with the coach, encourage your DD to remember all the things she is doing well and let her know how normal it is to feel stuck/scared. My DD really benefited from the higher level girls at her gym letting her know their stories of fears...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

How do the other coaches on the board feel about this idea? I personally feel that while it may be a lower level skills it can be dangerous and scary for kids, there is also important timing required. For me, its not about how difficult a skill is, it is the potential for injury.

i concur.

 

[gymdog]

Difficulty really has nothing to do with it because a 6 year learning a back handspring is just as difficult as a 16 year old learning a double back. It's all relative.

But it can be difficult to spot one child during a group workout if the group has moved on. The coach should just figure out what step/drill she can do and have her repeat it. You could ask about a private.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

We spot flyaways for months and months and months and months, then during the season we hand spot the kids through the routine including the flyaway timer, again and again and again and again and again and again......
You get the picture. Avoiding a fear issue is the best way to prevent a fear issue. I am not a big fan of coaches who refuse to spot a child in need. UNLESS it has been going on for years and it's time to take up soccer.

 

[Somewhat clueless]

We spot flyaways for months and months and months and months, then during the season we hand spot the kids through the routine including the flyaway timer, again and again and again and again and again and again......
You get the picture. Avoiding a fear issue is the best way to prevent a fear issue. I am not a big fan of coaches who refuse to spot a child in need. UNLESS it has been going on for years and it's time to take up soccer.

Thank you so much for all of the replies. Keep them coming!! I have been out-of-technology for a few days, so I apologize for the delay in returning to the thread.

CoachP, you really gave me something to think about. My dd is NOT in the situation of it being something that has been going on for years and years, and she really wants to get past this but is not feeling supported at all. She placed AA last year at state and this year on an event, so she seems to be doing well, in my opinion.

I think I am just frustrated that she is asking and explaining and trying to communicate with the coach, but is being sent to the corner to basically work alone while other girls are being spotted on this or other things. I have not observed a practice in a while, so I only have her view, but she is pretty perceptive and spot on with her descriptive ability. She is definitely "in need" and desperate at this point.

 

[iwannacoach]

Just as others have said..... The difficulty of a skill is relative to each child's physical and mental readiness. I think spotting kids before there's an issue is far better than waiting for them to fall and get the message that the skill is........

Harder than they thought.
Harder than the coach told them.
Beyond their ability.

Gymnastics is easy until you consider each child's ;imitations and perceptions. If they think a skill is difficult to learn then it's a hard skill. It becomes even more difficult when they think they have it figured out and kinda add the coach's corrections to what they think they know about the skill.

The coach described in this post isn't unusual, and the notion that kids need to have the confidence to do it without being spotted as they learn is not uncommon. You might consider it a working model for the coach, and that's what the coach feels is the best way to go. That may be why your child feels she isn't being supported. You have to either get her to understand that the coach has her best interests at heart, or get the coach to change.... which is going to be about as easy as giving ice skating lessons in hell.

The last alternative is to take her to a gym that believes in spotting until the kids feel they are ready.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Somewhat Clueless, I have no answer for you, so I suggest you find out what days they work flyaways on and go and watch. (YES COACHP JUST TOLD A PARENT TO WATCH WORKOUT!!!) But the first thing you need to to is find out exactly what is going on. Then you need to ask the coach what can be done to help her with her flyaway WITH the HC present, (since you already talked to the HC and they agree with you). At that point you will have a complete picture of what is going on, and the coach will agree to put some energy into her or not. If the coach tells you that she just isn't getting it and won't help then,,,, it is probably time to view other options.. This is not common in the gymnastics world but it does occur. If I played by that game my optional team would be cut by a third.... And I get to annoyed when I hear things like this,,, my god, just send her to us for a month and I will ship her back.
I am going to ramble a bit and give you a perfect example. One of my kids Kim, did the exact same thing. She had a great flyaway and then in the meet prior to state she pulled in on the bar, catching her toes etc... Now we always spot them so she was caught. So no injury just anxiety, Over the next two weeks she was hand spotted for days and days through the timers. Things were looking good in the days prior to state and during warmups but during her competition routine, , she pulled in again... Not to mention bars was her last event and she was soundly in first place AA by several tenths 8.4 on bars (no credit for the dismount) dropped to 7th place aa.... Subsequently we spent the next two weeks spotting her on timers (coach up on a block), letting her flip every once in a while when she wasn't expecting it.(shadow spot). Fast forward 3 days prior to regionals, every days she was spotted on the first three timers, then during mock competition routines allowed to flip with a coach still on the block, then the next routine coach on a shorter block etc..
Well,,,, fast forward to regionals,, I heard she cut her cast short on the high bar because she was probably only thinking about that darn flyaway, but she did it, and...... won AA at regionals..... One very happy 9 year old and one very happy coach. This is what gymnastics is all about...

 

[cbifoja]

(YES COACHP JUST TOLD A PARENT TO WATCH WORKOUT!!!)

 

[Somewhat clueless]

Somewhat Clueless, I have no answer for you, so I suggest you find out what days they work flyaways on and go and watch. (YES COACHP JUST TOLD A PARENT TO WATCH WORKOUT!!!) But the first thing you need to to is find out exactly what is going on. Then you need to ask the coach what can be done to help her with her flyaway WITH the HC present, (since you already talked to the HC and they agree with you). At that point you will have a complete picture of what is going on, and the coach will agree to put some energy into her or not. If the coach tells you that she just isn't getting it and won't help then,,,, it is probably time to view other options.. This is not common in the gymnastics world but it does occur. If I played by that game my optional team would be cut by a third.... And I get to annoyed when I hear things like this,,, my god, just send her to us for a month and I will ship her back.
..

Okay, Coach P! Send me your address & I'll get her out by FedEx in the morning!!! I will warn you though, that she eats a lot!!

In all seriousness, your approach is exactly what she told me when I asked her to describe what she felt like she needed. Now to see if the coach will agree.....

Keep an eye out for large packages showing up at your door!

 

[iwannacoach]

Somewhat Clueless, I have no answer for you, so I suggest you find out what days they work flyaways on and go and watch. (YES COACHP JUST TOLD A PARENT TO WATCH WORKOUT!!!) But the first thing you need to to is find out exactly what is going on. Then you need to ask the coach what can be done to help her with her flyaway WITH the HC present, (since you already talked to the HC and they agree with you). At that point you will have a complete picture of what is going on, and the coach will agree to put some energy into her or not. If the coach tells you that she just isn't getting it and won't help then,,,, it is probably time to view other options.. This is not common in the gymnastics world but it does occur. If I played by that game my optional team would be cut by a third.... And I get to annoyed when I hear things like this,,, my god, just send her to us for a month and I will ship her back.
I am going to ramble a bit and give you a perfect example. One of my kids Kim, did the exact same thing. She had a great flyaway and then in the meet prior to state she pulled in on the bar, catching her toes etc... Now we always spot them so she was caught. So no injury just anxiety, Over the next two weeks she was hand spotted for days and days through the timers. Things were looking good in the days prior to state and during warmups but during her competition routine, , she pulled in again... Not to mention bars was her last event and she was soundly in first place AA by several tenths 8.4 on bars (no credit for the dismount) dropped to 7th place aa.... Subsequently we spent the next two weeks spotting her on timers (coach up on a block), letting her flip every once in a while when she wasn't expecting it.(shadow spot). Fast forward 3 days prior to regionals, every days she was spotted on the first three timers, then during mock competition routines allowed to flip with a coach still on the block, then the next routine coach on a shorter block etc..
Well,,,, fast forward to regionals,, I heard she cut her cast short on the high bar because she was probably only thinking about that darn flyaway, but she did it, and...... won AA at regionals..... One very happy 9 year old and one very happy coach. This is what gymnastics is all about...

An excellent example of greatness!

 

[Gym Gab MP]

Try a private lesson. This will allow the coach to better understand your gymnast's fears and find an approach specific to her needs.