Parents Pre team help . . . Coach and Parent input appreciated

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GherkinMama

Proud Parent
Ok, this is my first post here. And it's long. After talking about the problem to my friends, who just didn't get it, I turn to you whose expert advice I really need.

My daughter is 5 years old and in Kindergarten. She has been doing gymnastics since she was three, progressing to 3 x a week intermediate 6-8 years old classes in September and then in January she was invited to join the newest incarnation of the Pre-Team. It is varied ages but all similar skills. I would put them at levels 1 and 2 if I had to. The coach is tough, but fair for the most part. When she was invited, I asked the coach to tell me honestly if she thought a 5 year old could handle it. It makes her new schedul2 2 x a week for 2 hour sessions. I know my child, she is strong, she loves gymnastics and is a very fast learner. But and this is a huge BUT she is and can be a rather emotional child. I reminded the coach of this. She assured me that they would all progress together and that she would do great. She is the youngest on this pre-team. In the beginning, there were no issues. The last bunch of sessions have been another story. She was kicked out of practice for having a temper tantrum in the gym. she apologized to the coach and was an exemplary student, for a while. Then the tantrums started creeping back up. Back talk to the coach, issues with other students. Last practice, (after a 3 week absence due to illness) she was kicked out again. It was at the end of practice, and she had thrown a pout fit midway as well. The coach, marched her to the door, called me into the gym with a brusque attitude, then stated loudly that she was not going to put up with this. She's in Pre-team and shes the only one who doesn't get it, and can't get along with the other kids. I am done with this. Meanwhile my child is in full meltdown mode, bawling and saying she doesn't want to leave. I take her out into the waiting room full of other parents and try to calm her down, she gets even wilder and by this point is completely irrational. I ended up having to pick her up and carry her to the car. While she is kicking and screaming.

I am at a loss, a complete loss to understand this. By all other accounts, school and (previous) gymnastics activities, she is well behaved, she doesn't throw fits on a general basis. She is 5 and by all means acts 5, she pushes boundaries and tests her wings and her limits at home. We are a fairly strict home and do not put up with that kind of attitude. Mainly using the removal of privileges as a consequence. I have only seen this behavior outside of the gym one time and that was when her bully of a cousin threatened her with harm if she didn't play a game with her (the girls mother and I both heard it) my daughter was apoplectic with the injustice and rage of the situation. My daughter is very snuggly, she is sweet and loving but she is also VERY hard on herself and gets easily frustrated when something that she is doing isn't right immediately.

Now, I know that the coach was right in removing her from the class. I understand her frustration and irritation. After all, I had the very same emotions. I don't believe it was fair to the other girls on the team to have to deal with a screaming team mate. However, am I wrong in feeling that the method of public shaming was a bit inappropriate? Is that helpful? I want to be a good gym mom. I want to support her coach and my daughter and yet I find myself deeply frustrated. I am unsure of how to proceed. I don't want her to be biased against because of past behavior, I want to get her to correct this attitude, and I think we can do it, but I am so worried that the coach has already written her off. That any conversation we will have regarding this subject will be disregarded.

I have talked to my daughter at length over why this keeps happening and I cannot get a clear answer from her. She doesn't believe that the team training is too hard, or that the kids are mean, she wants to go to practice and gets very upset when I ask if she rather go back to her old classes for now until the next invite session. She says she doesn't want to quit.

I need all the help I can get here and any advice is greatly appreciated. Her next practice is this afternoon.

Thank you!!!
 
This behavior is child-speak for there is something bigger going on that she doesn't like and doesn't know how to deal with. Either with the other girls or with the coaches. I would investigate. You could even explain to the coaches that the only other time you have seen her act like this was when she was being bullied. See what she says. Maybe the coach is the bully, maybe they need to keep a closer eye on the other girls in the group, etc. You just don't know. But something is going on.
 
I can't thank you enough for your response. It reaffirms what has been in the back of my mind since this all started happening. I have put in a call to the gym to have the coach call me back, perhaps we can hash some of it out before class today. Since I cannot seem to get a clear answer from my daughter, perhaps I can get some inside information from her coach.
 
What stood out to me was the "tough but fair" bit. The vast majority of 5 year olds aren't ready for "tough." It should still be about fun for a five year old.

With that said, here are a couple of anecdotes:

When my daughter was right about the same age, I had the following experiences with my very bright, kind, active, sensitive kid. I will also add that I am a strict parent, with a no nonsense approach to behaviour and consistent with consequences. She was not an "allowed to get away with anything" kind of a kid. These incidents followed a move to a new house and town, so new school, new experiences etc. All of which were wonderful. We were having a blast. Many, many fun memories for me as I am sit here and think of our family's adventures together.

However, there were a couple of times I wondered if we were doing something critically wrong, or maybe she was insane (or maybe I was):

We were walking home from church one day (just the two of us) because it was a beautiful day. She sat right down on the sidewalk and would not get up, throwing a tantrum and crying, and even kicking me in the leg. She would not move. Nothing worked. She would not let me hug her or touch her and acted like a wild beast if I tried to pick her up. Finally I sat down next to her for a full twenty minutes and didn't say anything. People driving by probably thought we were nuts. Then all of a sudden it was over. She snuggled up to me and asked if we could please have lunch and she was sooooo hungry. We got up and went to the coffee shop and had breakfast and chatted like nothing had happened.

A week or so later we went just over bedtime, and she started acting like a lunatic, laughing and running and being crazy (much more so than the usual stayed up past bedtime and got the crazies stuff). Finally after several hours I shut her door and feel asleep while she was next to me singing and singing and bounching on the bed. I woke up well after midnight--she was laughing hysterically and had her finger jammed up my nose. Can you say frustrated exhausted mom who needs to count to ten.

There were two more incidents, including an embarrassing one in a grocery store with her and one of her little friends. We started to think something was really wrong. It seem really devastating for a couple of weeks.

Then....it stopped.... Back to normal. So bizarre. I think it was just so much change, so much activity, etc., that she just got overstimulated and couldn't handle it a couple times.

Maybe it is something like that and will be short lived??? Have you had big changes lately around home, etc??
 
My DD started pre-team the summer before Kindergarten, she was 5. It was a disaster. She was not emotionally ready. Not crying or misbehaving, just young... didn't work hard... was ready skill wise, not maturity wise. She dropped back to 2X a week rec classes and tried again in early Spring of her Kdg year- she was then 6. It was a night and day difference. Sometimes 5 is too young for some kids to start.
 
MidwestMommy -
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I can't say enough, again, how much this kind of sharing and advice helps. I am waiting room friends with some other moms, but their kids are in different levels and/or boys. So there is little help there. And most of my friends don't have kids or kids in sports.

No big changes in the last 2 years. Worst thing we have is that we are fairly isolated from our extended families, but we haven't moved or anything like that in the last 2 years. She started kindergarten in the fall but seems to be doing great there. She has had these...spells, in the past when going through major behavioral mile stones...terrible twos, and threes. We are a no nonsense household as well. While supportive, we are tough. She was grounded for her behavior. Most often I leave gym, at the gym. But this was so huge, I couldn't ignore it. I keep hoping that this will fade. That she will grow out of it but it seems to be escalating. I am waiting on pins and needles for her coach to call me back, so we can talk openly without being in earshot of my little one. I don't want my daughter to be discouraged from loving her sport, or discouraged from wanting to grow and challenge herself.

GymgirlsMom -
Thank you for responding! I am seeing that that is a very true statement. Most of the girls on her team are 7 and 8, 2 6 year olds and my 5 year old. I was hesitant to have her join in the first place for that same reason, I asked multiple times if she was too young for that kind of training but trusted the coaches assurance that she could handle it. After all, she knew what my daughter was like out in the gym and I did not. The waiting room is glassed in, and she had never been removed from class before she had joined the team. My daughter did say that she didn't want to go back down to the baby classes. She views it as a demotion. If this is the best course of action, after discussing it with her coach, then that will have to be another bridge to cross.
 
She's 5. I agree with the others.

I do think the coach should be able to deal with the child's behaviour within the gym, without needing to remove her from the class. If she has to discipline your child, fair enough, then let you know after class what she has done and whether she needs to to reinforce any consequences.

IMO a coach who needs to kick a 5 year old out for behaviour shouldn't be coaching 5 year olds. They either need to adjust their coaching style, or find the kid another coach.

Fwiw, have you made sure she's eaten before class, and maybe gets a snack/drink break after an hour? Tantrums here seem to correspond with hunger :)
 
I would definitely address the way that the coach disciplined her publicly like that. Do you stay for classes? Maybe the coach can give you a "sign" that things are escalating and you can meet them in the locker room or coaches office? Or maybe the coach can carry around a time out mat from event to event (for all of the girls to utilize when needed). Or a sticker chart for behavior? Hmm. It sounds like you "get" that the behavior is wrong, and the coach should be receptive to changing how she deals with it. It's not like you are denying it happened or was wrong. I have a very mature just turned six year old on pre-team. There is one very immature girl in her group, and I am very honestly surprised that she is still allowed to be in the group. Her behavior is totally out of control (example: she kept smacking my dd on the bottom the other day) and the coaches have addressed it with the parents multiple times and they just shrug it off. I really don't think she is ready for the pre-team group as far as maturity goes and it is a huge distraction for my daughter who spends most of the class trying to get away from her. They are actually moving her up to the next level which boggles my mind. At least you want to help solve the problem!
 
GM -

Let me go out on a limb and guess that before this happened, your little one was pretty used to things happening in a fairly predictable manner. This situation is new to her and she is trying to figure out how to adapt. I have found that in this kind of situation, everything else in her life has got to stay as normal as possible. You have got to be sure that she has adequate nutrition and hydration before practice; no snack, no practice. She also has to have adequate sleep the night before practice. Food, water, and sleep - without one or more of these she will not be at her peak.

Good Luck
 
I agree with everyone else that something is triggering this.

I have my own anecdote, but too much different to be worth sharing, but I definitely would talk with the coach, explain that you think the extra stress might be what's triggering the outbursts. See if maybe coach is willing to remember she's 5, and try harder to coach her that way, or if she might be better off dropping back and giving it a little more time.

Good luck either way!!!
 
I've got 2 girls, one who is "emotional" (stroppy) when she's hungry and one who is "emotional" (tearful) when she's tired. They don't know they're hungry or tired, they just strop/cry basically, become completely different children.
I'd perhaps look at her sleep/eating pattern and see if that links up with the tantrums.
Aat 5, they generally don't know why they mis-behave (whether that's being disobedient, having a tantrum etc) or if they do, they aren't able to articulate it, so "I don't know" is a valid answer from a 5yr old on "why did you draw on the wall?"
 
Thank you all!!

MeetDirector - You are completely right. She is very routine oriented. It has been nearly 4 months since she started on Pre-team so this is not too new for her. She is a good sleeper. 730 pm to 630 am. She eats well, and drinks lots of water (no soda and limited juice in our house) However snacks are harder to get her to eat, so perhaps that is one thing that I can do right away.

3 little gymmies - I do stay for classes. We live so close that I was contemplating going home for the middle of the class. And the funny thing is...she is not one of the kids who horses around during class. she pays attention, she works hard...from what I can tell.

I will definitely keep you posted to what her coach says and how practice goes today. I am sure she'll be an angel, this time.
 
Yep, and for mom wait till she is sleeping like an angel, pour yourself a fancy cup of whatever your fav beverage may be, and put "I won't let go" by Rascal Flatts on the radio in the earbuds and give yourself a big ol pat on the back....
 
I was also going to suggest hunger/tired as a cause. My DD (6) is umanageable when she is hungry. And she doesn't realize that it is hunger. She just melts down, but once we get food into her she snaps out of it.
Even if this hasn't been an issue before, perhaps you DD is going through a growth spurt that would require more calories than normal?
 
Thank You!! She is currently chowing down half a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on wheat and having a glass of almond milk. I think I'll bring a cut up apple with me in case she needs a snack. No call back so far.
 
I'm on the snack bandwagon too! My dd is 6, and a Level 3, their practices are 4 hours and I always pack a snack in her gym bag. Otherwise we cannot make it out of the gym without tears. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, today my daughter took a plum and some water...just enough to keep her blood sugar stable and energy level from crashing. Good luck today!
 
I think (and I haven't had 5-year-olds for 8 years now, so it's a little fuzzy) that in your place I would maybe think about putting her back in the rec classes for 6 months or so. Ultimately whether she starts pre-team at age 5 or age 6 matters not a bit. Use that time to dispassionately observe the pre-team and the team program as a whole. If you have other gyms in your area, maybe check them out too. It becomes much harder to switch gyms once she is on the team track (not impossible, by any means... happens all the time. But harder emotionally once coaches and gymnasts are invested in each other). I agree that "tough but fair" is maybe what I want for my 13-year-old daughter (though really, I think she can use a few warm fuzzies from time to time too) but gym for 5-year-olds should be FUN! If something seems off at this early stage, I think I'd take a good hard look at the gym and make sure this is where I want my daughter's fragile body and even more fragile psyche spending many hours of her childhood.
 
Warning: this is going to be long...

My background is in early childhood education. I agree with all of the above posts, but I wanted to add in something different as well. For two years I worked at a public early childhood school with kids aged 3-5. I was in an administrative position, and I learned a LOT about behavior in those years. One way we tried to handle behavior was to figure out the trigger (as others have mentioned). This method is called applied behavior analysis, and the theory is that there are three main functions behind undesirable behavior.

The first one is access to an item. In the gym this could look like wanting to be first in line or first to have one-on-one instruction on an event. Or, if she has a favorite activity it could be throwing a tantrum because they aren't doing that station when she wants. The remedy is to prevent the child from that item as long as the behavior is negative. "I'm sorry, Suzie. I know you want to be first, but you are making a bad choice right now. You can go first another time when you are calm."

The second reason is escape. In the gym this one is obvious. She is trying to get out of something because it is too hard, she just doesn't like it, or she is just tired. At school the remedy is to not let the child escape the demand, but I would say in the gym that if this is truly the function of her behavior, then she probably needs a step back from pre team for a little while.

The third reason for negative behavior is attention. Some kids crave more one on one time than others. If it appears that someone else is getting more attention, that can be a trigger for some kids. Or, she could simply be acting up to get attention even if no one else is getting special treatment. It happens a lot with that age group. If the coach isn't as warm and fuzzy as your DD would like, she could just be trying to get some affection, but she is going about it the wrong way. The remedy is to ignore the negative behavior completely, and praise like crazy when the child is caught being good. This teaches kids not to act out, but it takes a good deal of patience and effort from the coach to follow through to make it work.

The trick to finding the cause of her behavior is to have an observer (you) watch carefully and take notes while it happens. As soon as you see a tantrum starting, write down what happened immediately before the tantrum started. This is the called the antecedent. It's just a quick sentence about what you saw. Also write down the time it started and the time it ended to figure out the length of the tantrum. Next write a few words about how the behavior was handled by the adult (ignored, reprimanded, redirected, time out, gave attention, etc...).
Example:
4:10-4:17 (7 minutes total)
Antecedent: went to the vault
Behavior: pouted, stomped foot, shouted NO, cried and yelled
Coach: reprimanded her, then ignored behavior, then called you to get her

Next, when you get home you can look at your notes to determine the reason for the behavior (function). In the example case, it is clearly escape. The child didn't want to go to the vault, and her behavior worked, because she got out of it. The solution: do not allow the child to escape the demand. That means, let her throw her fit (even if it is removed in another room with Mom), but when she is calm, take her back to the vault and have her complete the drill or task...even if it is only once or twice. That is extremely inconvenient, but it teaches the child that she cannot get out of something just because she throws a fit. Eventually she will realize that she missed something fun while she was freaking out, but she still had to do vault in the end anyway, so throwing a fit is just not worth it.

Taking notes is SO valuable, because it is often hard to figure out what is going on when a child freaks out, and the child obviously can't explain it when she is in the middle of an episode like that where you are physically carrying her to the car (been there before!). If you have the notes, you can figure out a pattern to her behavior when you are removed from the situation and less emotional. This kind of thing is time consuming and potentially awkward to discuss with the coach if she is not on board with the idea, but it is THE most effective way to change a child's behavior at this age. IF you can give it a shot, and IF you and the coach both think it is worth a try, you could find a great solution to this problem. Your only other choice is to take her out until she is a little more mature.

I hope this helped!!
 

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