WAG Elite Gym Contracts

[Gymkateer]

Exactly….and well said



I don't think the purpose is to ACTUALLY keep an unhappy athlete at your gym for another year regardless of their feelings. No one wants that. It is more so that the family takes the commitment seriously and is not so easily lured into the "grass is greener" type thinking.



4thelove, what legal things are you talking about? I've never heard anything like that.



Eek…why the hate towards Geddert?? I don't work there or have any affiliation with him, but he is an absolutely tremendous coach who has done great things for USAG and the training of coaches. His athletes are phenomenal. I've been to his gym several times for training purposes and heard nothing but positive verbal treatment towards all of the athletes. Not sure where you heard such a rumor.



Sounds like you have a personal issue with Geddert's. Jordyn Wieber grew up in his gym, and their newest elite, Delanie Harkness, is not a transplant either. They obviously know how to coach! I wouldn't say that that many of his upper levels came from other gyms at high levels - plus, once you get to a certain level in gymnastics, your gym choices become slimmer as you need to be somewhere with the coaching ability and equipment to to do Level 9 and up. Regardless, as I said above, the 1 yr commitment is more for making sure the family is committed and not ready to jump ship at the first tough moment for greener grass. It forces them to actually talk to the coaches and figure out what the problem is, which I'm sure oftentimes fixes the problem. Not sure how you figure that it's all about money….if any of us coaches wanted money, we be in a different profession.

I don't think the statement that Geddert has many transplants was meant to be a dig at his coaching ability. It's just a fact that he has a lot of transplants. That happened because his gym has a good reputation for getting good results and sending kids off to college on scholorship. That said, being a good coach doesn't mean the person can't also be a dbag.

 

[bookworm]

I would never sign anything like that....our gym changes came after my daughter was Level 10 because first gym: lost all of its Level 10 coaches and felt anyone who walked through their doors "was capable" (uh, no the gym mom at the desk last week is not a "capable" Level 10 coach this week) and refused to hire competent coaches and the second gym: was only interested in their Elite , which is fine, but my Level 10 needed Level 10 coaching and again, not the gym mom who formerly worked the desk....and I'm sure neither of those gyms would have felt that my opinion of their lack of coaching staff warranted a voiding of that type of contract....

 

[flippin out]

Exactly….and well said



I don't think the purpose is to ACTUALLY keep an unhappy athlete at your gym for another year regardless of their feelings. No one wants that. It is more so that the family takes the commitment seriously and is not so easily lured into the "grass is greener" type thinking.



4thelove, what legal things are you talking about? I've never heard anything like that.



Eek…why the hate towards Geddert?? I don't work there or have any affiliation with him, but he is an absolutely tremendous coach who has done great things for USAG and the training of coaches. His athletes are phenomenal. I've been to his gym several times for training purposes and heard nothing but positive verbal treatment towards all of the athletes. Not sure where you heard such a rumor.



Sounds like you have a personal issue with Geddert's. Jordyn Wieber grew up in his gym, and their newest elite, Delanie Harkness, is not a transplant either. They obviously know how to coach! I wouldn't say that that many of his upper levels came from other gyms at high levels - plus, once you get to a certain level in gymnastics, your gym choices become slimmer as you need to be somewhere with the coaching ability and equipment to to do Level 9 and up. Regardless, as I said above, the 1 yr commitment is more for making sure the family is committed and not ready to jump ship at the first tough moment for greener grass. It forces them to actually talk to the coaches and figure out what the problem is, which I'm sure oftentimes fixes the problem. Not sure how you figure that it's all about money….if any of us coaches wanted money, we be in a
different profession.

I admit that I'm not at his gym, my frame of reference comes from several athletes both current and past.

And again, don't have issue with a 1yr commitment,,,have major issues with a 1 yr notice.

 

[flippin out]

I don't think the statement that Geddert has many transplants was meant to be a dig at his coaching ability. It's just a fact that he has a lot of transplants. That happened because his gym has a good reputation for getting good results and sending kids off to college on scholorship. That said, being a good coach doesn't mean the person can't also be a dbag.

Exactly! I don't care for john I will admit that. But when you have a successful team transplants are just a part of it. So the whole we put years in to XYZ athlete are not true to a lot of the upper levels. Yes, Jo and Delanie were there from little on, but how much is that the norm for most gyms? And Twistars, like any other successful program has a fair amount of transplants --just the way it goes.

 

[Terry]

I would never sign anything like that....our gym changes came after my daughter was Level 10 because first gym: lost all of its Level 10 coaches and felt anyone who walked through their doors "was capable" (uh, no the gym mom at the desk last week is not a "capable" Level 10 coach this week) and refused to hire competent coaches and the second gym: was only interested in their Elite , which is fine, but my Level 10 needed Level 10 coaching and again, not the gym mom who formerly worked the desk....and I'm sure neither of those gyms would have felt that my opinion of their lack of coaching staff warranted a voiding of that type of contract....

actually, drastically changed circumstances like that -- all Level 10 coaches leaving and your daughter is a Level 10 would void that clause in a contract because the gym could not fulfill its own obligations under it.

 

[bookworm]

actually, drastically changed circumstances like that -- all Level 10 coaches leaving and your daughter is a Level 10 would void that clause in a contract because the gym could not fulfill its own obligations under it.

But my point is that the gym didn't see it as "all the level 10 coaches leaving" as they "replaced" them with warm bodies who weren't level 10 coaches, and called them "Level 10 coaches"...and they've never had another level 10 make JO Nationals since we left 8 years ago (when all the real L10 coaches left)....

 

[Terry]

But my point is that the gym didn't see it as "all the level 10 coaches leaving" as they "replaced" them with warm bodies who weren't level 10 coaches, and called them "Level 10 coaches"...and they've never had another level 10 make JO Nationals since we left 8 years ago (when all the real L10 coaches left)....

right -- I understood that. I was just saying what I thought would happen legally if the gym tried to enforce the contract under those circumstances. Basically, these clauses will be largely unenforceable.

 

[windydays]

Thank you for the lively responses. I am learning so much from reading different points of view!

 

[PalmTree]

I've never really looked at it the way some of you have before, and it's been very interesting. Bookworm, what a terrible situation you were in with your first gym…I've seen that happen at previous gyms I worked at and I agree it is NOT okay at all. I can see how that would make you not want to sign such a contract. I think it's just such a difficult thing. The coaches don't want to lose a top kid right when their hard work is about to pay off, and the parents don't want to feel chained down to one gym in case it doesn't work out. I guess it ends up a lot like relationships…all's fair in love and war! You win some, you lose some.

 

[Jimbound]

I believe gym membership should be regulated by a governing body beginning at the class level. The rules and policies of gym affiliation should be standardized so that every gym who is a member of the governing organization deals with the public at large in a consistent and predictable manner and all gyms know where they stand. In other words gym hopping should come with a price and the terms should be formatted by the powers that be. Perhaps gym hopping whether by students, instructors, team coaches and administrators would be permissible but not without compensation to the victimized party. Just saying. Gym hopping in all its forms and all its levels has been a nemesis from day one. It needs to be controlled, mitigated, and penalized even when there are forgiving circumstances such as logistics, personal preference, etc., which would spark a decision to change gyms.

 

[bookworm]

It needs to be controlled, mitigated, and penalized even when there are forgiving circumstances such as logistics, personal preference, etc., which would spark a decision to change gyms.

Uh no.....just like we can shop at Target or Nordstroms without our choice being "controlled , mitigated or penalized", the same goes for gyms.....the "penalty" for not having a good product (such as coaching) , is going to a gym that does...."controlling"choices sounds like countries like China where the government takes over the whole process (and your kid) .....and that's not happening here....

 

[gopuckgo]

Uh no.....just like we can shop at Target or Nordstroms without our choice being "controlled , mitigated or penalized", the same goes for gyms.....the "penalty" for not having a good product (such as coaching) , is going to a gym that does...."controlling"choices sounds like countries like China where the government takes over the whole process (and your kid) .....and that's not happening here....

Hahhahaha! I had an awesome laugh this morning reading this comment! Thank you, I needed that!

 

[Terry]

I believe gym membership should be regulated by a governing body beginning at the class level. The rules and policies of gym affiliation should be standardized so that every gym who is a member of the governing organization deals with the public at large in a consistent and predictable manner and all gyms know where they stand. In other words gym hopping should come with a price and the terms should be formatted by the powers that be. Perhaps gym hopping whether by students, instructors, team coaches and administrators would be permissible but not without compensation to the victimized party. Just saying. Gym hopping in all its forms and all its levels has been a nemesis from day one. It needs to be controlled, mitigated, and penalized even when there are forgiving circumstances such as logistics, personal preference, etc., which would spark a decision to change gyms.

This is a bit much -- no? We do live in a free country. Market forces control businesses. You have a good product people will buy it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I believe gym membership should be regulated by a governing body beginning at the class level. The rules and policies of gym affiliation should be standardized so that every gym who is a member of the governing organization deals with the public at large in a consistent and predictable manner and all gyms know where they stand. In other words gym hopping should come with a price and the terms should be formatted by the powers that be. Perhaps gym hopping whether by students, instructors, team coaches and administrators would be permissible but not without compensation to the victimized party. Just saying. Gym hopping in all its forms and all its levels has been a nemesis from day one. It needs to be controlled, mitigated, and penalized even when there are forgiving circumstances such as logistics, personal preference, etc., which would spark a decision to change gyms.

the National Governing Body here is USA Gymnastics. they could never interfere with a private business. they don't have the authority.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

additionally, any of these contracts you're speaking of are unenforceable when the athletes are minors. the contracts may control one's behavior...but that's all they're good for.

 

[gasrgoose]

Many of you have said one year contracts are fairly standard. Our gym does not require a one year contract, neither did our previous gym. I'm curious how many gyms actually require such a contract? Texas Dreams? Parkettes? Cincinatti? Brandy Johnson? WOGA? Desert Lights? Everest? etc. I would not be opposed to signing one, but we haven't been asked.

 

[bookworm]

We sign papers agreeing to abide by certain behaviors at meets etc but nothing binding us to stay ( or pay) for the whole year.

 

[kandkfunk]

The one year agreements we've signed had to do with conduct and payment of meet fees for the contracted season. The agreements were between the parents and the club. If our gymnast leaves during season, we are still responsible for paying any outstanding meet fees, which may include actual entry fees if refunds cannot be obtained and coaching fees since they were calculated with my gymnast included in the total. We were not responsible for outstanding tuition payments after the notice period.

However, I've seen several gymnasts leave right before or during season and not pay these fees. As far as these contracts with parents go, they are only enforceable to the point that the owner is willing to try and collect. If you are owed a few hundred dollars, is it worth the time and resources to try and collect through the court system? I think most owners would say no.

 

[kandkfunk]

Forgot to say these were never elite gym contracts. These are just standard JO contracts that many gyms in our area ask for and someone above had asked about.

 

[gymdog]

At the end of the day, as irritating as it is , you're better off without people who don't trust and believe in you. There are people we've been relieved to see go and actually given the final push to be honest. We didn't want to deter them any more than necessary.

Some people leave for the wrong reasons but they might be back. Having been the "victim" of spectacularly bad luck/circumstance in the past due not to my own coaching (I was assured), I can definitely relate to how frustrating it is. But you have to focus on the only thing you have control over: yourself. This goes for both sides. Work even harder. I tell myself if I did it once I can do it again.