Parents Advice: considering leaving JO program for Xcel

[gymmom803]

My daughter is 6 years old, only been doing gymnastics for 2 years and currently training for Level 2 comp season in the JO program. She learns very fast, and was very successful competing the new Level 1 for 2013-2014 season, with first All-around at every comp including the State Championship. She was also first on Beam and Floor, at every comp. She finished with an AA score in the top 3% for all athletes, all levels (1-10) out of 698 competitors at State. She learns very visually, and for that reason thrives when working with older girls that she can watch and emulate. Our reason for considering the switch to Xcel, despite her success, is due to her getting very bored in class, greatly wanting to do more difficult skills; not enjoying having the same routine as everyone; and what she says, to her, is slow progress, to the point of possibly wanting to quit. She is greatly advanced on beam and floor (compared to level 2 skills). However, although she has done very well, her weaker event is bars, because she needs more upper body strength, according to her coaches, in order for her to advance in that event, at the same rate as the rest of her skills. Despite everyone' s attempts to explain that strength comes with time and repetitive strenght training and to just be patient, she is so used to skills coming so easy, that she has been broken, mentally and emotionally by having strength training holding her progress up. Her coaches suggested Xcel as a means of allowing her the ability to compete higher level (higher than level 2) skills on floor, beam, and vault, while working on her upper body strength and competing bars to the level she is currently at. It all sounds great and like a perfect solution, I just worry because I know she hopes to do gymnastics very long term, with Olympic dreams. Will she have trouble transitioning back to JO program, to do so, and will the swap, now to Xcel, inhibit her training for upper level optionals, in any way?

 

[raenndrops]

If your gym allows it, she could transition back into JO later. There are also other gyms out there that would allow a former Xcel to transition into JO. Depending on her age when she is ready to go back, she may have to score out of L4 and L5... not hard if she is Xcel Platinum by that time... and is still a visual learner.

I would say that the move to Xcel would be great for her. Both of my gymmies will be competing Xcel this season (Gold and Platinum). When OG is ready, she will be transitioning back into JO at L7 (she has 2 years to get her cast handstand and BHS on Beam and Layout on floor... but she is hoping to have it in a year). If she does one year of Platinum, she will score out of L4 and L5 in one day (at our last chance meet after Championships... either on Day 2... she will compete Platinum on Day 1... or 2 weeks later, depending on when we have it this season).

 

[gymmom803]

If your gym allows it, she could transition back into JO later. There are also other gyms out there that would allow a former Xcel to transition into JO. Depending on her age when she is ready to go back, she may have to score out of L4 and L5... not hard if she is Xcel Platinum by that time... and is still a visual learner.

I would say that the move to Xcel would be great for her. Both of my gymmies will be competing Xcel this season (Gold and Platinum). When OG is ready, she will be transitioning back into JO at L7 (she has 2 years to get her cast handstand and BHS on Beam and Layout on floor... but she is hoping to have it in a year). If she does one year of Platinum, she will score out of L4 and L5 in one day (at our last chance meet after Championships... either on Day 2... she will compete Platinum on Day 1... or 2 weeks later, depending on when we have it this season).

Thank you!! I was worried because it sounded almost too good to be true!! I am so happy to hear others are really liking having the flexibility to train and compete according to strengths and weaknesses, at the lower levels. Thank you for your reply and good luck to your daughter!!

 

[kandkfunk]

One thing to ask about is the number of hours the Xcel gymnasts train at your gym, if you don't already have that info. At many gyms, but not all, Xcel gymnasts practice less hours. With fewer hours, it may be difficult to do the amount of strength training needed to allow her bars skills to catch up with her other skills. You might want to be prepared to do additional conditioning outside of gym.

Other than that, it sounds like a nice solution for your gymmie.

Good luck!

 

[gymmom803]

One thing to ask about is the number of hours the Xcel gymnasts train at your gym, if you don't already have that info. At many gyms, but not all, Xcel gymnasts practice less hours. With fewer hours, it may be difficult to do the amount of strength training needed to allow her bars skills to catch up with her other skills. You might want to be prepared to do additional conditioning outside of gym.

Otheer than that, it sounds like a nice solution for your gymmie.

Good luck!

Thank you for your reply and your time! The less hours was actually my first thought in the discussion, and my biggest reason for objecting. It seemed like a no-brainer to me that if training at the current level wasn't giving the strength necessary- how would less training produce that?! The gym may offer a solution for that, but if not or maybe even so, my husband has an extensive background in body-building and personal training, so the two of them are now planning to train together. She is so excited that she can already do some things her "big, strong daddy" can't do!! ie: press handstand!!

 

[cbifoja]

She finished with an AA score in the top 3% for all athletes, all levels (1-10) out of 698 competitors at State.

While I'm sure that your gymmie is very talented, this statistic is meaningless and I hope you don't read too much into it.

It simply isn't valid to compare a Level 1 routine (is there even any tumbling in L1?????) to a routine where girls are doing double saltos and twisting like tornadoes.

I'm not trying to diminish your daughter, just trying to remind you that you are comparing apples to oranges and that it is much easier to score a 38 in L1 through L3 than it is in optionals.

 

[cbifoja]

Our gym doesn't do Xcel but my understanding is that it is fine to switch back to JO if your gym is okay with it. Personally, if your DD has these kinds of aspirations, I'd be inclined to keep her in JO and just work on those bar skills. Maybe spend a year training (not competing) for L4 and start skipping some levels.

Success (or lack thereof) in these lower compulsories doesn't really foretell of long term success. My DD is just all over the map. Good old L3 season (37s) , okay old L5 (35s) , good new L6 (high 36s with lots of upskills), decent L7 (low 36s). She skipped L4 and scored out of old L6. This allowed her to keep training bigger skills without getting bored or burned out because skill acquisition motivates her more than scores/medals.

Also get a pull up bar at home and I think that you will find your DD's upper body strength increasing. My DD is constantly doing pull ups at home. She sets little goals for herself like "every time I leave my room I do ten pulls ups with my palms "out" and when I come back in, I do ten with my palms "in" " (that's her favorite game). I can't even begin to guess how many pull ups she ends up doing over the weekend.

 

[gymgal]

Talk to the coach a little more. Ask about hours, conditioning (can she go in to condition with the JO team), home exercises. I would be careful about setting up your own training program with dad. Often times, well meaning outsiders work the wrong muscles and end up making the situation worse. This is particularly true in gymnastics where you are aiming for just the right balance of flexibility and strength. BTW, bars often lags behind the other events and it is usually due to strength. I wouldn't worry too much about it. It doesn't necessarily mean that she will always be that way. dd didn't have much strength for bars when she was younger. But she is an excellent bar worker now.

 

[3LittleGymmies]

Personally, I would stay in JO. Just my opinion. Unless you are at one of the gyms that uses Xcel in a competitive way or has girls transition back to JO. At our gym, it's a track intended for the girl who loves gymnastics but doesn't want the big financial or time commitment. I know that this varies by gym. She will start learning more new and difficult skills in a year or so. In the meantime, you can get a chin up bar for home if she wants to work on her upper body strength.

 

[LJL07]

While I'm sure that your gymmie is very talented, this statistic is meaningless and I hope you don't read too much into it.

It simply isn't valid to compare a Level 1 routine (is there even any tumbling in L1?????) to a routine where girls are doing double saltos and twisting like tornadoes.

I'm not trying to diminish your daughter, just trying to remind you that you are comparing apples to oranges and that it is much easier to score a 38 in L1 through L3 than it is in optionals.

Very true. And conversely I have heard that kids who were meh at these levels can do very well at higher levels. If they can't master the harder skills, scoring at levels 1&2 is moot. Mine scored totally average in low 9's on floor with that super boring floor routine and got lots of tiny deductions for not holding her feet still etc. etc.

Op, I can understand your dilemma. My dd is doing Jo level 2. On floor, she has a nice (now) robhs and can connect multiple Bhs. She also has a workable (far from perfect) back tuck, lots of bar skills, but she's probably sloppiest on beam. I looked into doing xcel as well because I thought dd would enjoy doing more interesting and harder routines but was told that was not the appropriate track for her by two coaches. In part, they said the less hours for xcel would ultimately hinder her. And although not impossible, it is harder to get back into the Jo track later on. So Jo level 2 it is. I wouldn't necessarily say dd is bored by any means bc they do let her uptrain, but she is now wanting more time in the gym, and that's not an option being a level 2. I would really make sure switching back to JO is a good possibility before making the switch. I know some areas compete xcel rather than Jo levels 1-3, but that is not the case here.

 

[gymmom803]

While I'm sure that your gymmie is very talented, this statistic is meaningless and I hope you don't read too much into it.

It simply isn't valid to compare a Level 1 routine (is there even any tumbling in L1?????) to a routine where girls are doing double saltos and twisting like tornadoes.

I'm not trying to diminish your daughter, just trying to remind you that you are comparing apples to oranges and that it is much easier to score a 38 in L1 through L3 than it is in optionals.

Actually, I have to agree that the point of comparing different level scores in all-around seemed odd to me, for the very reasons you pointed out! I only shared that stat because others disagreed with me, and the competition itself put such an emphasis on sharing that info. Disregard that, ... but to compare "apples to apples" she finished 2nd out of 53 for all age categories (5-9) that competed the new level 1, when she had just turned 6, and was only beat out by a 9 year old. In her age devision for that level, she was first every comp. My intent was not to brag on her natural talent, and ability (although I will now!), it was to seek advice for how to best nurture that, by giving background as to her rare, natural abilites. Keep in mind, I am very objective, as a former athlete myself! She tested at a few gyms prior to us choosing one, because of the overwhelmingly consistant responses from highly credentialed (former elite and medaled Olympian)coaches stating she was one of the best at her age and level of training, they had seen in their 35+ years coaching! I don't want her potential lost on a bad decision in her training, since time and financials are not an issue! Thank you for your time!!

 

[gymmom803]

Very true. And conversely I have heard that kids who were meh at these levels can do very well at higher levels. If they can't master the harder skills, scoring at levels 1&2 is moot. Mine scored totally average in low 9's on floor with that super boring floor routine and got lots of tiny deductions for not holding her feet still etc. etc.

Op, I can understand your dilemma. My dd is doing Jo level 2. On floor, she has a nice (now) robhs and can connect multiple Bhs. She also has a workable (far from perfect) back tuck, lots of bar skills, but she's probably sloppiest on beam. I looked into doing xcel as well because I thought dd would enjoy doing more interesting and harder routines but was told that was not the appropriate track for her by two coaches. In part, they said the less hours for xcel would ultimately hinder her. And although not impossible, it is harder to get back into the Jo track later on. So Jo level 2 it is. I wouldn't necessarily say dd is bored by any means bc they do let her uptrain, but she is now wanting more time in the gym, and that's not an option being a level 2. I would really make sure switching back to JO is a good possibility before making the switch. I know some areas compete xcel rather than Jo levels 1-3, but that is not the case here.

Thank you for your response!! It does sound like you can relate to what I am saying and my reason for considering this option!! I honestly would not have considered this as a option because if she weren't asking for it!! My biggest problem is that a friend of hers did not do well last season and was swapped as a result. The friend has loved the change and constantly talks about getting to work skills my daughter has gotten to in Level 2. I think she definitely doesn't understand my concerns with possible complications from less training in the gym, and is only thinking about and dreaming of the bigger skills and how she can get to them, fastest. Thank you again!! Very helpful!!!

 

[gymmom803]

* has Not gotten to work in level 2- sorry for all the typos!

 

[Ali'sMom]

Also get a pull up bar at home and I think that you will find your DD's upper body strength increasing. My DD is constantly doing pull ups at home. She sets little goals for herself like "every time I leave my room I do ten pulls ups with my palms "out" and when I come back in, I do ten with my palms "in" " (that's her favorite game). I can't even begin to guess how many pull ups she ends up doing over the weekend.

Can you send the pull-up fairy to my house?? We got DD a pullup bar when we understood that her issue with her kip (the biggest issue) was upper body strength. Talked with coach on Friday, bought it Saturday. She hung on it, she pulled up on it, she did did everything... that weekend.
That was two months ago.
I'm hoping, now that school has started, and technically our season has started, that she'll start using it for real

 

[gymmom803]

Personally, I would stay in JO. Just my opinion. Unless you are at one of the gyms that uses Xcel in a competitive way or has girls transition back to JO. At our gym, it's a track intended for the girl who loves gymnastics but doesn't want the big financial or time commitment. I know that this varies by gym. She will start learning more new and difficult skills in a year or so. In the meantime, you can get a chin up bar for home if she wants to work on her upper body strength.

Thank you for your feedback!!! I appreciate your time!

 

[gymmom803]

Talk to the coach a little more. Ask about hours, conditioning (can she go in to condition with the JO team), home exercises. I would be careful about setting up your own training program with dad. Often times, well meaning outsiders work the wrong muscles and end up making the situation worse. This is particularly true in gymnastics where you are aiming for just the right balance of flexibility and strength. BTW, bars often lags behind the other events and it is usually due to strength. I wouldn't worry too much about it. It doesn't necessarily mean that she will always be that way. dd didn't have much strength for bars when she was younger. But she is an excellent bar worker now.

Thank you for your feedback!!! I appreciate your time!

 

[gymmom803]

Our gym doesn't do Xcel but my understanding is that it is fine to switch back to JO if your gym is okay with it. Personally, if your DD has these kinds of aspirations, I'd be inclined to keep her in JO and just work on those bar skills. Maybe spend a year training (not competing) for L4 and start skipping some levels.

Success (or lack thereof) in these lower compulsories doesn't really foretell of long term success. My DD is just all over the map. Good old L3 season (37s) , okay old L5 (35s) , good new L6 (high 36s with lots of upskills), decent L7 (low 36s). She skipped L4 and scored out of old L6. This allowed her to keep training bigger skills without getting bored or burned out because skill acquisition motivates her more than scores/medals.

Also get a pull up bar at home and I think that you will find your DD's upper body strength increasing. My DD is constantly doing pull ups at home. She sets little goals for herself like "every time I leave my room I do ten pulls ups with my palms "out" and when I come back in, I do ten with my palms "in" " (that's her favorite game). I can't even begin to guess how many pull ups she ends up doing over the weekend.

Thank you for your feedback!!! I appreciate your time!

 

[Ali'sMom]

Thank you for your response!! It does sound like you can relate to what I am saying and my reason for considering this option!! I honestly would not have considered this as a option because if she weren't asking for it!! My biggest problem is that a friend of hers did not do well last season and was swapped as a result. The friend has loved the change and constantly talks about getting to work skills my daughter has gotten to in Level 2. I think she definitely doesn't understand my concerns with possible complications from less training in the gym, and is only thinking about and dreaming of the bigger skills and how she can get to them, fastest. Thank you again!! Very helpful!!!

I still consider myself new to the competitive world, because my DD isn't in a really competitive gym, but it sounds to me like the Xcel option would indeed be good for her.
As Raenndrops said, she (I would guess) would have to score out of L4 and L5 to move to optionals, but other than learning the routines, and doing a meet, I don't see how that would be a problem. I could definitely see how she would want to give up if she's feeling like she's not doing anything exciting anymore.

I was thinking that the other option would be if her gym was willing to have her score out of each level and just keep moving up. But if they are the ones suggesting Xcel, then I don't guess they're wanting to do that. My gym has a girl that went from old L2 (new L1) to finishing her L8 season in 3 years.

Good luck!

 

[gymmom803]

I still consider myself new to the competitive world, because my DD isn't in a really competitive gym, but it sounds to me like the Xcel option would indeed be good for her.
As Raenndrops said, she (I would guess) would have to score out of L4 and L5 to move to optionals, but other than learning the routines, and doing a meet, I don't see how that would be a problem. I could definitely see how she would want to give up if she's feeling like she's not doing anything exciting anymore.

I was thinking that the other option would be if her gym was willing to have her score out of each level and just keep moving up. But if they are the ones suggesting Xcel, then I don't guess they're wanting to do that. My gym has a girl that went from old L2 (new L1) to finishing her L8 season in 3 years.

Good luck!

Amazing!!! I mainly just want her happy again, and not wasting her talent, by giving up because she is bored!! Thanks for all the advice!!

 

[Ginger]

" I don't want her potential lost on a bad decision in her training, since time and financials are not an issue!"

If so, then maybe the best way would be to take her somewhere where she can train for L4 without competing? I saw 6years olds without pullover, then a few months later they had a decent L3 bars, and one year later training L4 bars. She can't do L4 till she is 7 anyway, but with good coaching, she will be ready in one year, I am sure.