WAG Mckayla Maroney/gymnastike

[happychaos]

Protect our athletes. Cancelled my subscription this morning.

Now to prepare myself on how to answer the inevitable question tomorrow that will be asked from the many Maroney fans in our gym.

Dissapointed, SBG -

As to how to handle this with the girls in your gym, I would drive home the fact that nothing they post online, on their phone, on social media, etc. should ever be considered private. EVER. It constantly amazes me how politicians, celebrities, and people who appear reasonably intelligent do not understand this.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that there are criminals waiting for an opportunity to steal. Teens need to be taught that they cannot "lock" their social media and online activity the same way they lock their car, house, and locker. Once they click "send" it is out there, and will always be out there, out of their control. A good rule of thumb is to teach your kids to ask themselves if they would share what they are posting with their grandmother. If not, then don't post.

 

[bogwoppit]

As to how to handle this with the girls in your gym, I would drive home the fact that nothing they post online, on their phone, on social media, etc. should ever be considered private. EVER. It constantly amazes me how politicians, celebrities, and people who appear reasonably intelligent do not understand this.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that there are criminals waiting for an opportunity to steal. Teens need to be taught that they cannot "lock" their social media and online activity the same way they lock their car, house, and locker. Once they click "send" it is out there, and will always be out there, out of their control. A good rule of thumb is to teach your kids to ask themselves if they would share what they are posting with their grandmother. If not, then don't post.

These were private photos. She did not put them on social media. They are stolen. That is not okay.

 

[happychaos]

These were private photos. She did not put them on social media. They are stolen. That is not okay.

I did NOT say it was okay, Bog. Reread my post. The point is that NOTHING IS PRIVATE in the digital world. We need our kids to understand this.

Whenever you use the internet, the cloud, e-mail, social media, whatever, you run the risk that your photos, postings, comments, will show up again in the future. There really is no such thing as DELETE. When you share that photo, send that e-mail, update your status, whatever, that information is out of your control forever. Our kids (and obviously lots of adults) need to be reminded of this over and over.

 

[Terry]

I did NOT say it was okay, Bog. Reread my post. The point is that NOTHING IS PRIVATE in the digital world. We need our kids to understand this.

Whenever you use the internet, the cloud, e-mail, social media, whatever, you run the risk that your photos, postings, comments, will show up again in the future. There really is no such thing as DELETE. When you share that photo, send that e-mail, update your status, whatever, that information is out of your control forever. Our kids (and obviously lots of adults) need to be reminded of this over and over.

Its true. Many young people do not really get this. they post things on their facebook page for example and then when they apply for a job their potential boss checks out all their social media stuff and finds things that ruin their chance at employment. There is very little privacy left and young kids need to know that. Also, when it comes to our gymnasts -- everyone has to remember how sheltered the elite girls are and have been. Home schooled, little or no social life etc etc. Then all of a sudden the girls that make the Olympic team become overnight celebrities. Its very hard to handle. They need really really good guidance. The adults in their lives need to protect them and the gymnastics community needs to protect them too. Which brings me back to Gymnastike. Thumbs down big time.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Just want to be clear, in case it was necessary:

There will be no specific descriptions of the photos.
There will be no linking to the photos.
There will be no linking to sites that link to the photos.
There will be no directions on where to find the photos.

Violation of any of the above will result in an immediate and permanent ban.

 

[gymdog]

I did NOT say it was okay, Bog. Reread my post. The point is that NOTHING IS PRIVATE in the digital world. We need our kids to understand this.

Whenever you use the internet, the cloud, e-mail, social media, whatever, you run the risk that your photos, postings, comments, will show up again in the future. There really is no such thing as DELETE. When you share that photo, send that e-mail, update your status, whatever, that information is out of your control forever. Our kids (and obviously lots of adults) need to be reminded of this over and over.

My understanding is they were never uploaded, though, if they exist in the sense of not being fake. Essentially they just took the pictures on personal devices for all we know. When you use iOS your data can be stored in "the cloud" so that it's recoverable on other devices later. But you don't necessarily go through a distinct step of uploading it there ( depends on how your device was set up). I think that a lot of users are just unknowingly using cloud storage. Just like a lot of people unknowingly don't disable location information on mobile devices which is then stored in pictures.

What you are saying is true in the sense of being cautious about how cloud storage works and whether your device is using it. I don't know how hacking the cloud works, maybe if the photo had been deleted it would no longer be accessible. But recent reports showed that even on factory wiped Android phones, pics were recoverable. So maybe not, although that's different from the cloud, just another cautionary tale.

In the past, accounts like Instagram have been hacked, and pictures leaked. That's a little different - those were uploaded. In this case I really feel for these people because I don't really think this was an entirely predictable consequence.

 

[bogwoppit]

My understanding is they were never uploaded, though, if they exist in the sense of not being fake. Essentially they just took the pictures on personal devices for all we know. When you use iOS your data can be stored in "the cloud" so that it's recoverable on other devices later. But you don't necessarily go through a distinct step of uploading it there ( depends on how your device was set up). I think that a lot of users are just unknowingly using cloud storage. Just like a lot of people unknowingly don't disable location information on mobile devices which is then stored in pictures.

What you are saying is true in the sense of being cautious about how cloud storage works and whether your device is using it. I don't know how hacking the cloud works, maybe if the photo had been deleted it would no longer be accessible. But recent reports showed that even on factory wiped Android phones, pics were recoverable. So maybe not, although that's different from the cloud, just another cautionary tale.

In the past, accounts like Instagram have been hacked, and pictures leaked. That's a little different - those were uploaded. In this case I really feel for these people because I don't really think this was an entirely predictable consequence.

I agree 100%. To blame the victim, in this case, really is not helpful.

Technology is changing faster than most people understand. Unfortunately hackers are smarter than most of us, and more evil.

 

[happychaos]

I agree 100%. To blame the victim, in this case, really is not helpful.

Technology is changing faster than most people understand. Unfortunately hackers are smarter than most of us, and more evil.

In this case the ONLY thing that IS helpful is discussing what can be done to ensure that this does not happen again.

Here is how I will be laying it out to my DD when we discuss it (before she goes to practice and hears about it from her darling, but older, teammates) I guess you might see it as victim blaming, but I see it as pointing out a mistake that I hope MY DD can learn from, and hopefully not repeat.

Nude pictures (especially on a phone) = mistake

Stealing nude photos from cloud (or hacking password, or whatever actually happened) = illegal action that is impossible to prevent once the pics are taken

Best way to avoid this happening to you = do not take nude pictures and expect they will remain private

Knowing (well, sort of) someone who is a victim of this type of crime drives the point home better than anything else. Sorry if it is not PC to take this view, but I really think that the ONLY good that can come from this situation is the action that can be taken to prevent it from happening again. And in my mind, the only thing my DD has control over is the decision to take the pics, or not.

 

[2G1B]

I don't have an iphone, I have always done android. So, I'm not really sure how iphones work; but for my android phone, I do have it set up that my photos are automatically backed up to my google+ account. I then go in and change settings for any that I want others to be able to see. Otherwise, it is just a backup from my phone. I'd imagine that iphones do something similar. I'm with happychaos, when my kids get old enough to have their own phones I will talk to them about the dangers of doing things with it that they wouldn't do with me standing right there. It is possible for these things to get hacked and not worth the risk.

I feel awful for Mckayla that this has happened. It royally sucks for any of these victims; but it is also a teaching moment for our children and actually for all of us.

 

[my4buffaloes]

This whole thing is horrible - on all fronts. I talked with my dd and told her everything. Unfortunately the pressure to do this is real for our kids these days - something us parents could not have even dreamed about when we were kids. Cell phones didn't exist, how could we have known that they would and that someone would have the ability to take photos and store them in thin air? This is new territory for everyone - even the law is trying to play catch up. But it is there and we need to talk to our kids about this and how to deal with it.

I basically told my dd that if she would not say it, share it, send it, show it, post it, etc to her grandparents then she shouldn't do it at all. Next up - my ds...

 

[Faith]

I agree gymnastike were wrong...

But my point was, if they're fake, then it's nothing to do with the cloud being hacked, privacy settings, or how common it is for teenagers to take inappropriate pictures of themselves ( do they? Do *all* youngsters make such a habit of it it's now normal?)

Every photo ever taken of mckyla may have been entirely suitable for her grandmother to view. Someone has taken one of those images and altered it to appear as if she is naked.

That you absolutely can't protect your kids against, short of never having a photo taken of them ever. There should be legal consequences for anyone altering, or distributing pictures altered in this way, without first checking authenticity.

 

[profmom]

What happened was not a scandal. It was a crime, and potentially a serious one. Gymnastike facilitated the crime by posting the link. Of course they did it to drive traffic to the site. Just think for a minute what KIND of traffic they were actively soliciting for the site by this.

As for educating our children about the dangers, think about it like this. If you know someone who was at a bar at 1 AM and had his wallet stolen, you'd probably caution your child about this, but you probably wouldn't do so with a tone of condemnation and shaming. But this was not the wallet stolen from a bar at 1 AM. This was the wallet stolen from the bedside in the house in broad daylight.

Want to keep your female child safe from ever having to experience something like this? Do not allow her ever to have any kind of public presence whatsoever. And please go have a look at your own pictures, texts, emails, and downloads on your phone and ask yourself if you'd be comfortable sharing them with several thousand people, possibly after having been altered.

Personally, I'd rather condemn people who treat women and girls this way, and I encourage my daughter to do so as well. I hope the 4Chan people are caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

 

[vagymmomma]

Do not allow her ever to have any kind of public presence whatsoever.

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think this is realistic in today's society. This board has discussed how college recruiters look to you tube accounts for video. It's a crazy different world today. Education is key. And re-education. And 100 more times.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think this is realistic in today's society. This board has discussed how college recruiters look to you tube accounts for video. It's a crazy different world today. Education is key. And re-education. And 100 more times.

I read her post as implying just that--if you have any kind of electronic presence these days, this could happen.

And I agree with both of you!

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

Maybe not exactly the case if McKayla Maroney's photos weren't her at all, but photoshopped, but in regards to others.

By saying that the adult women should never take nude photos of themselves ever, even in private, unless they want the whole world to see them is simply promoting rape culture. It's the same thing as telling a woman she should not wear revealing clothes and expect not to be come on to, or worse, assaulted.

It is never the woman's fault if she is assaulted, or if someone breaks into her private files and steals photos to share with the world. Whether it was a burglar breaking into a home and stealing hard copy boudoir photos, or a hacker into her iCloud, it is the same level of crime.

And NOT any of these women's fault.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Maybe not exactly the case if McKayla Maroney's photos weren't her at all, but photoshopped, but in regards to others.

By saying that the adult women should never take nude photos of themselves ever, even in private, unless they want the whole world to see them is simply promoting rape culture. It's the same thing as telling a woman she should not wear revealing clothes and expect not to be come on to, or worse, assaulted.

It is never the woman's fault if she is assaulted, or if someone breaks into her private files and steals photos to share with the world. Whether it was a burglar breaking into a home and stealing hard copy boudoir photos, or a hacker into her iCloud, it is the same level of crime.

And NOT any of these women's fault.

In an ideal world, doors wouldn't need locks. Bank cards wouldn't need PIN numbers. Cars wouldn't need keys. And girls wouldn't need to worry about what sorts of photos they take.

But sadly we live in the real world. And to live in the real world, we have to take certain precautions to protect us against our fellow human beings. And in the real world, women have to take more of these precautions than men do. It's not right. It's not fair. But it's not going to go away because you pretend the problem isn't there.

This doesn't mean that the people who acquire and distribute the photos aren't at fault -- the hackers and thieves and invaders of privacy absolutely are to blame! But there are steps that everybody can and should take to prevent this happening to them, and unfortunately women generally have to be more careful than men. It's not right. It's not fair. But it's the real world.

 

[Chalky]

I just checked my smart phone and tablet, both of which use the Android operating system. Both were set up to automatically backup data to Google servers, even though I have never activated these options. I believe that must have been done automatically on many of the OS updates I've installed. I don't have any questionable photos (!), but it's still concerning, and I've now deactivated that feature.

 

[Chalky]

To check if back up is activated, I went to the settings tab, and scrolled down until I saw "backup and reset", then I clicked on that. Sorry for 2 posts, Firefox keeps typing backwards, then crashing on me. Technology, huh?!

 

[happychaos]

What happened was not a scandal. It was a crime, and potentially a serious one. Gymnastike facilitated the crime by posting the link. Of course they did it to drive traffic to the site. Just think for a minute what KIND of traffic they were actively soliciting for the site by this.

As for educating our children about the dangers, think about it like this. If you know someone who was at a bar at 1 AM and had his wallet stolen, you'd probably caution your child about this, but you probably wouldn't do so with a tone of condemnation and shaming. But this was not the wallet stolen from a bar at 1 AM. This was the wallet stolen from the bedside in the house in broad daylight.

Want to keep your female child safe from ever having to experience something like this? Do not allow her ever to have any kind of public presence whatsoever. And please go have a look at your own pictures, texts, emails, and downloads on your phone and ask yourself if you'd be comfortable sharing them with several thousand people, possibly after having been altered.

Personally, I'd rather condemn people who treat women and girls this way, and I encourage my daughter to do so as well. I hope the 4Chan people are caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It would be nice if condemning and prosecuting the bad guys were enough to keep kids safe. But, it isn't. Of course people who treat women and girls this way should be condemned. Of course they should be prosecuted. However, those things do nothing to prevent this from happening to my DD. The criminals responsible need to be brought to justice AND kids need to be educated on how to avoid this happening to them.

Like most parents, I taught my kids what they should do if approached by a stranger. We even practiced running away and yelling "this is not my dad". Teaching children to avoid dangerous people who wish to harm them is responsible parenting. It is no different just because the criminal is in cyberspace and not on the street corner.

I condemn identity thieves and people who steal credit cards numbers, but I still do EVERYTHING I can to prevent it from happening to me. Lifelock, strong passwords, checking statements frequently, etc. I plan to teach my children to do the same.

When my daughter goes off to college, I will encourage her to carry pepper spray, and caution her against walking alone late at night. Encouraging her to be safe does NOT imply that it is her fault if she is targeted. It is a realistic way to deal with the risks that are present in our world.

And yes, I will encourage her to lock her door, so her wallet is less likely to be stolen.

 

[profmom]

Part of living in the real world is to stop pretending that any girl or woman with any kind of public presence can protect herself from this kind of garbage just by acting the right way, doing the right thing, or taking the right precautions. I agree wholeheartedly with the impulse that we should use this as a teachable moment, but what should we be teaching and to whom? If all we do is tell our daughters to be super duper extra careful and wary, we miss the point.

Teach your sons to respect women. Teach them to respect women's bodies and not to fetishize and commoditize them. Teach them not to take pictures without consent and not to share pictures without consent. Teach them that shaming any woman for the way she looks or dresses is wrong. Help them to see how awful this sort of thing is so that they will never do this to a woman, or to a man for that matter. And help them to have the courage to stand up to other men and say "this is wrong" when they see it happening. If we change our culture, we don't have to fear for our daughters so much.

I for one will not undermine all the wonderful things that gymnastics has done for my daughter in terms of her self image and perception of herself as strong by teaching her that she has to walk around in the world in fear because she walks around the world in a woman's body. I will teach her to respect herself and continue to be strong so that when someone tries to shame her or attack her (and it will happen, no matter how careful she is), she can respond appropriately, with all the strength and righteous fury that she can muster by believing herself to be entitled to equality.