WAG Gym has two JO comp training paths?

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Orangesoda

Proud Parent
So I was talking with the team supervisor at our gym today about potential paths for my gymnast (5yrs old as of yesterday in developmental program aka pre-preteam). We're considering dropping from two down to one hour of gym a week.

Anyways she says after one more preteam level, the competitive kids move into one of two paths: 1. TOPS or 2. ....basically...not TOPS. She said both of these paths compete in the JO system. I guess kids are selected for one or the other path based on their age, strength, skills, attitude and minimally on flexibility since she says that is more easily come by.

My question: why two paths? Wouldn't a gym want all competitive gymnasts doing TOPS training? Wouldn't the gymnasts training tops level 3 WAY out score those training level 3 without TOPS? What am I missing?

In a nutshell, the gym we attend is fairly large and well-known, produces elites and averages a college scholarshipped (is that a word?) gymnast about every other year.

I should've asked the supervisor this question when we were talking but didn't think about it. I always end up with follow up questions.

I'm also wondering if I'm ruining my kid's chances by moving down to one hour of gym a week....
 
My experience is TOPS kids don't necessarily outscore non-TOPS kids. Some kids just can't do the physical abilities. Some may never be able to climb the rope without legs or do 10 press to handstands or half leglifts. TOPs kids are not necessarily the highest scoring gymnasts though. But I certainly believe incorporating TOPs training is beneficial for all gymnasts.

Having two different paths is common but maybe not blatant in all gyms. Many gyms call it fast track, elite route. I can only speculate. Your coach would know for certain.
 
Well TOPS generally requires more than the usual hours a gymnast does a week, not less...and it's for the competitive gymnasts who are generally on team....dropping down to 1 hour a week, even at 5 years old , seems more like a rec path, and hence, not TOPS
 
There are a few threads around on levels and training hours you might want to look at. Also fees.

From my very limited understanding, if you're not up for big commitment (in the future), lots of money and time, then TOPS isn't something you would consider.
 
TOPS really is over and above JO. It's purpose is not identify athletes and programs that have kids that MIGHT have the potential to reach elite. Not all gymnasts want to out int eh extra time and effort to do so. Gym don't always want to put extra resources into all students. It;s not about when they are level 3 but the where gymnastics might take them.

This will not get you placed in the TOPS group....


What's your reasoning?
For this, if you are showing you are not willing to have your daughter put in the time, then they will assume she is not a TOPS candidate. TOPS requires extra time and commitment.
 
Sce and 4theloveofsports really described it well. TOPs kids do not necessarily out score the "non TOPs" kids in the same level. At our gym, the high level TOPs kids work out with the optionals and then compete whatever level they are proficient at during competition season. For example, last season my DD was a L4. A couple of the kids in her team also competed L4, but are TOPs kids and practice way more hours. One of those kids out scored all others in the team pretty much 100% of the meets, the other was somewhere in the middle score wise. Both girls are very young, and both will be scoring out of L5 this upcoming season and moving on to L7. The other girls in last years L4 are all L5 this year. :)
So, the TOPs kids are generally younger and generally move through the levels faster, but not always. They practice many more hours than our compulsory gymnasts. They don't necessarily get skills faster, but since they are stronger and have better form they do seem to reach certain skills sooner than the kids who do strictly JO team. :) They also work out more hours and thus it makes sense that they progress at a faster rate. :)?
 
It may be an hours thing, the kids doing the TOPS group will probably do a greater number of hours. Having a non TOPs option will allow some kids to still compete but not commit as many hours. Perhaps also time in the gym and coach availability is limited and they just don't have the hours in the week to have all gymnasts in doing the TOPs program.

Many gyms have more of an A steam and a B stream. The A team may do more hours and be perceived to have more talent, they may move through the levels faster.
 
Thanks for the responses. I think I understand the two tracks and their functions now. I'm still a little unsure as to where my daughter might fit into them. The person I spoke with is my daughter's current coach. She's also the one who does the evaluations and placement for the team's incoming gymnasts (at least the lower levels). She did our evaluation and placement when we came to this gym a few months ago. Like I said, we're currently doing two one-hour classes a week and coach says my daughter is in an "excellent place" with her skills, has "loads" of potential and takes correction very well. She said my daughter is pretty much right "where she needs to be" - not a phenom, but definitely not behind the ball. Coach actually encouraged us to go down to once a week all the while talking about the TOPS path being an option in the future, saying that burnout is a big problem with talented gymnasts at this age. I'm assuming she wouldn't have even mentioned it had it not been an option, right? Is she just being informative?

I guess I'm questioning just like everyone else here is. It seems like an hour a week at 5 is way below the average. I even mentioned privates til daughter gets the skills bump up to the 1 1/2 hour class, which is the next step, so we could at least get 1 1/2 hrs a week...and coach didn't necessarily jump on the idea.

I'm sort of at a loss as to what to do from here. Thinking.......
 
Why are you considering dropping down to one hour a week?

There's a few contributing factors. Selfishly, the commute is bringing me down. I also have a very spirited(put kindly) 3yr old and a 7 month old who I'm still nursing. The drive is only 45 minutes which I know isn't too far when converted to gymnastics standard driving time, but doing it with these ages is tough. One of the classes is earlier in the day when the gym is pretty empty which is great, but the other is during peak gym time which leaves me trying to please two very restless little ones in a very crowded gym with practically shoulder to shoulder standing
-room-only during the witching hour. And yes, I realize the hours are just going to increase, but so will my other kids ages and patience capacities. When the 3yr old turns 4, I could put her into a class at the same time. And there are other options for the baby when I'm done nursing.

The final factor is my daughter's interest level. Lately when she realizes it's gym day, I'm met with a "can I just skip todayyyy?" When she's in class she always has fun and works hard, but I think the whole 3-hour round trip debacle is hard for her as well at this age and maturity level. She's generally very mature. I have to remind myself that she's barely 5 years old. I'd like for her to try other activities while she still is able - at least then I'd know if she's just a homebody or if she really isn't that into gymnastics.

I'm struggling since she IS demonstrating talent and she DOES seem to enjoy the actual gymnastics part when she's at gym. It's such a great sport. I'm trying to figure out if we(and by "we" I guess I mean I)just need to push through this rough stage. I mean, does anyone remember when your kids were 5, 3 and 7months!? Every day is the longest day of my life! Haha.
 
As a coach of lots of 5yos.... Let her enjoy everything now. Let her have fun with gymnastics. Let her try other things. Don't make gym a "chore" or too much work, not quite yet. I coach both regular rec classes for this age and our pre-team/TOPs classes. I have a few 5yos that are ready for the more serious, intense training but honestly most are not and we often have kids drop because of it (getting too serious too fast and it's no longer fun). If she shows promise, that's wonderful and when she's emotionally ready to take on more hours and more serious training, that will be awesome. The last thing you want to do (especially if she's naturally talented) is scare her off and make her not enjoy it.
As a coach, I DO want the talented ones for TOPs as soon as possible because it's such an age related program, but I don't want them burned out or quitting so follow her lead for now and ease into more hours and more training as soon as possible without pressuring her too much. :)
 
I don't understand why your coach is encouraging dropping practice time to one hour a week and then bringing up "loads" of potential and TOPS as a possibility. I understand burn out but two hours a week even at 5 will unlikely lead to burnout. In addition, rec gym is nothing more than play time. So, I am as puzzled as you are.

I've been in your situation before. I had two toddlers and an infant I had to take with me everywhere and every time my oldest had an activity. I just had to breath and not think about it. Perhaps you can request your daughter be put in an hour and a half class once a week and register her at a nearby gym or a dance studio to keep up her physical fitness? The three hour trek to gym could certainly be draining to a 5 year old. At 5, it really will not hurt to wait a year until your situation is more manageable and your gymmie wants to do more hours.
 
I am also a little confused. One hour a week is really not enough to develop the strength, flexibility, and skills necessary to take either one of those paths, especially TOP's in my opinion. My 6 year old does 14 hours/week on Level 3 and our gym does not do TOP's. If they did, I would expect her to be there an additional 3-4 hours per week. I have really never even heard of a pre-team that only does one hour a week, just being honest. Both of my girls spent time on pre-team. The lowest one did was 3 hours a week (1.5 hours x 2) and the lowest the other did was 6 hours a week (3 hours x 2). This was at age 4-5. One hour a week at our gym would be considered a rec class.
 
Our gyms I guess you could call it pre team they are getting the girls ready to compete around level 4 ideally only goes 2 hours a week and all of the girls are picking up skills at a decent pace and getting very strong. I am sure more hours would have them progressing more quickly but our gym is a low hours gym in general. So I think one hour a week would be tough to get a lot of progress but I don't think little ones need tons of hours to progress either. TOPS and all of that I'm sure is a different story though.
 
With the drive and other kids, I'd do the one hour class until she is ready for a longer class, but with your current situation, I'd run from the notion of having a competitive gymnast right now!! ;)
 
Ditto what Gymsanity said. You already get gym mother-of-the year kudos for what you are currently doing! That is seriously above and beyond.

The overarching answer to your original question is that most gyms have two to three different "streams" for their gymnasts. This typically takes the form of a fast-track stream for girls who pick up skills quickly and have the magical combination of strength, flexibility and mental fortitude; a second track for girls who love the sport and are committed to JO hours but may be missing one or all of the aforementioned characteristics; and a third more recreational track (Xcel) for girls who may be missing one or all of the characteristics and don't want to put in JO-level hours

The streaming can be tacit (there is no declaration of an A-stream or a B-stream) but girls are grouped according to the characteristics listed above, with no explanation to gymnasts or parents and even though everyone knows the truth of the matter. Or the streaming can be blatantly out there: gym literature states it, coaches talk about it, etc.

My experience is that at most club gyms, there is mobility (upward and downward!) among the groups. So that is why I personally prefer the former streaming strategy (tacit), because it leads to less mental anguish for the gymnast and less odious CGP (that stands for Crazy Gym Parent) strategizing, gossiping, and otherwise undesirable behaviors. It's like mainstreaming in public school classrooms. Everyone knows what the deal is, but there is the appearance of potential equality (for what that is worth).

Your DD is very young. If you temporarily reduce her hours in the gym to 1 hour per week, it will not affect much, long-term. If, in a couple weeks or months, she is begging you for more time in the gym, you will have your answer as to whether you need to go back to those superhuman efforts to support your girl in her chosen sport.
 

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