Off Topic Parenting a perfectionist

[Orangesoda]

I have a daughter with perfectionistic tendencies. I'm hoping there are some parents and/or coaches reading who've dealt with these types of kids - I'd love your insight.

An example:

She's 5. I volunteer in her transitional kindergarten class. The assignment was for the kids to take a small paper rectangle, glue it onto a standard sized piece of paper, and then use crayons to make the rectangle into something they see - a door, a house, a bed....my daughter chose to make a flag. At some point she got frustrated because she couldn't make the stars come out of her crayon the way they looked in her mind, tried to erase them, got frustrated, and was reduced to tears. She only cried because I was there btw. I know that. She's a people pleaser and would have buried her feelings if I was absent. My usual reaction when my kids have feelings is to let them have them - I think I said something like, "those stars aren't what you hoped they'd be are they? That must be really frustrating". I've found that trying to convince her otherwise is not useful. Like saying something like "those stars ARE good enough! You're doing great...!" just doesn't help and seems to make her more frustrated.

Anyways, it's a silly little example but I know the high standard she sets for herself affects other areas of her life - she's hesitant to try new things and is quite self conscious at times. She's too self-aware at 5! She won't experiment. She'd rather not try than try and fail.

Does anyone have strategies they've found to be useful with helping kids take the pressure off THEMSELVES? I'd live your thoughts, and thanks if you're still reading!!

Edited to say that I know this tendency isn't ALL bad and is a large part of why she's a sharp little kid, with loads of perception and lots of attention to detail. Her gymnastics form is great! Haha.

 

[COz]

At some point she got frustrated because she couldn't make the stars come out of her crayon the way they looked in her mind, tried to erase them, got frustrated, and was reduced to tears.

She probably could have handled the stars not being how she wanted them, but the mess made from trying to erase them and making them worse probably put her over the edge.

usual reaction when my kids have feelings is to let them have them - I think I said something like, "those stars aren't what you hoped they'd be are they? That must be really frustrating".

Yes.

I've found that trying to convince her otherwise is not useful. Like saying something like "those stars ARE good enough! You're doing great...!" just doesn't help and seems to make her more frustrated.

No. Because she's too smart to be fooled by the adult who appears to have missed the point of why she's upset

Anyways, it's a silly little example but I know the high standard she sets for herself affects other areas of her life - she's hesitant to try new things and is quite self conscious at times. She's too self-aware at 5! She won't experiment. She'd rather not try than try and fail.

Talk to her beforehand about how it's OK to try something and not be good at it straight away. That's what practice is for. We've had some success in instilling this philosophy into our kid. Less success with the drawing dramas, but that will improve as she gets older.

Before anything really big, liked a concert or competition, again, lots of ground work about why she's doing it, for experience etc and that she's unlikely to win etc. Set up appropriate expectations for herself and more importantly, communicate your expectations so she doesn't think you expect more than she can deliver.

I'm OK with this type of child, because I was one so I almost always know what's going on in her head and what I wanted to hear at that same point. I can see how much trouble other people have with it though and often I feel that they think I should handle something differently, but I know my child better than they do

 

[profmom]

In my experience, perfectionists need to hear two clear messages: 1) it's great to expect a lot of yourself, but be sure that your expectations are reasonable, even if ambitious, and 2) very few things in life do not have second chances or additional opportunities. What do you want to do on/at your next practice/homework assignment/run-through/draft to help make your next competition/recital/final product/test go the way you want it to go?

Oh, and never reinforce the drama. Discourage it.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Oh yes, I have one of those ( cant think who she takes after, cough )

I actually bought her a mythbusters pin which says "Failure is Always and Option" to pin to her gym bag. And I reinforced the message that trying hard means making mistakes and getting it wrong, if you aren't failing you aren't pushing the limits and learning new things.

I also tried to give her reasonable expectations - so to learn something properly takes say 100 attempts, only half of which wont be abject failure, which is a hard thing to do when things do come very easily to them, at least in the beginning.

Good luck

 

[Orangesoda]

Thanks you guys. Great advice. I need to talk with her more about her mindset when we AREN'T in the middle of an "episode".

When the girls are practicing bars, it seems there's always a station where the coach gives them something there's no way any of them can accomplish. Dd always gets very frustrated and deflated when she can't do what is asked. I should probably let her in on the secret that her coach KNOWS she's not going to be able to do it...

 

[Rapunzel]

Growth mindset might help.
To be honest when they first introduced it at the dds school (4yrs ago) I thought it was a load of rubbish but I completely buy into it now.
This website has a good summary picture & more info.
http://mindbodycheer.com/mindset/
Basically the children are taught they can achieve anything if they have the right tools and failures along the way are part of the process. So with the star example, I'd suggest she started again and try & incorporate what she learnt from what went wrong last time - or if not in class when she got home.
I volunteer at school once/week and do a lot of setting them up to fail (science experiments), I get them to really think what could change to get success. Embrace the "failure" & bring out what they've learnt. The younger ones do get frustrated but when you talk to them and get them to repeat it with changes they've thought of, they are I think, happier than if they'd succeeded first time around.

 

[COz]

Basically the children are taught they can achieve anything if they have the right tools ...

I'm probably sounding like you from 4 years ago, but statements like "can achieve anything" always drive me nuts. People can perform to the best of their abilities, improve, challenge themselves, etc. but there needs to be a certain reality check too, that's a pretty grand statement!
Unrealistic expectations and unrealistic assessment of abilities can be just as problematic. Note that I'm not saying that kids can't achieve far above what they or other expect, simply that "anything" needs a bit of context.
Yes, I am annoying and pedantic

 

[Rapunzel]

I'm probably sounding like you from 4 years ago, but statements like "can achieve anything" always drive me nuts. People can perform to the best of their abilities, improve, challenge themselves, etc. but there needs to be a certain reality check too, that's a pretty grand statement!
Unrealistic expectations and unrealistic assessment of abilities can be just as problematic. Note that I'm not saying that kids can't achieve far above what they or other expect, simply that "anything" needs a bit of context.
Yes, I am annoying and pedantic

Yes you're right, pedant away , not anything but can overcome boundaries - maybe it's a school full of small dreamers where the dream is 8 times table

 

[Rapunzel]

I haven't explained it well at all, it's not about producing world champions or unrealistic ambitions being realised. It's more about understanding the learning process & teachhing the children to understand mistakes/failures are part of the path.

 

[COz]

I'll have a look at your link. No I won't, I'll have a read of the website that the link directs me to. Arrrgh. Now I'm caught in a loop of pedant-istic bad grammar and paranoia!!

(Trying to work my way through the different available emoticons )

 

[gymjunkie]

Does anyone have strategies they've found to be useful with helping kids take the pressure off THEMSELVES? I'd live your thoughts, and thanks if you're still reading!!

Yes, make mistakes in front of them. Show them how you handle it when things YOU make are not perfect ("ie: Oh well, that didn't turn out perfect, but I like it anyway because it was fun to make.") Also praise them for their effort in all that they do, not their talent or the outcome of their work.

 

[Orangesoda]

Like

 

[Orangesoda]

Yes, make mistakes in front of them. Show them how you handle it when things YOU make are not perfect ("ie: Oh well, that didn't turn out perfect, but I like it anyway because it was fun to make.") Also praise them for their effort in all that they do, not their talent or the outcome of their work.

Great thoughts. Thanks. I definitely need to model more that making mistakes is normal and healthy.

And yes, praising the work and effort is so important! Ah, the intricacies of child rearing!

 

[Sasha]

Great advice so far. I'll nod my head in agreement that I find myself consciously working, particularly with my son (7) gymnast, to encourage the "it's ok to mess up" mindset. He will do things like apologize for messing up a handstand or fall off the mushroom, or pause before trying a skill again after hitting it once saying sheepishly, "I might mess up" - to which I reply with my growing list of stock phrases like,
"That's ok. It's always ok to mess up"
"That's ok. You can always try again"
"I mess up every day on something. Sometimes a lot of things!"
"Everyone falls/messes up when they're learning, and even after they have the skill"
"That's how you learn gymnastics - by trying, messing up, then trying again. A million zillion times. It's normal. That's gymnastics."
"Even the Olympians mess up"
"If you're not messing up/falling, then it's too easy (applied first to our skiing adventures ;-) )."
And on and on, you get the picture.

So far, it's working to improve his willingness to try new things - especially in front of others. I wish my parents had drilled this into me, as I became too scared to fail as a kid and shied away from some activities I liked. Determined to keep the focus on effort!!

 

[COz]

Oooh, start programming her now to accept hair styles with bumps and lumps!

Do hair, "there are a few littles bumps here, but it's not really noticeable to anyone other than me and it looks fine even with the bump, so that's OK".

Statement of imperfection and how that's normal and acceptable and less noticeable to others even if she notices.
Reinforce that imperfection is common and normal and acceptable. Try and do it with examples that are not on her wherever possible. "Look, that tree has a branch missing, isn't that interesting." "Oh, there are scratches on the table. Oh, well. That's OK."
"Little Suzie doesn't do XYZ very well yet, but she is working really hard and keeps on trying and is improving, that's great isn't it".

Need to sort out the hair issue though so you don't go insane!

 

[OzZee]

LOL well it's fun being called into the class in kindergarten because your child has thrown a wobbly and shouted at the teacher and thrown her piece of paper at her because she can't fold it right.
A couple of very understanding teachers (k-1) and lots of work followed by gymnastics (and a terrible first competitive year) and she is great at working through issues and making things right (LOL I think too much she's happy to give up on fixing things too easily)

Lots of work on how everyone makes mistakes and no repercussions etc. Getting her to make mistakes and realise how nothing happens.

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

As a parent of two perfectionist children I feel your pain ( the teenage son seems to have grown out of the trait however and now drives me batty in other ways, so be careful what you wish for )
One of my kids teachers had a great motto "Mistakes are how we learn" . We have had lots and lots of chats about how everyone makes mistakes and errors and that it is a perfectly normal thing. Also reinforcing that just because it wasn't perfect the first time doesn't mean that it won't be better the next time and better again the time after that - but if they give up on the first attempt they will never see the improved results.

I think perfectionist children are often used to doing things well, and it can throw them into a complete headspin when they attempt something and don't immediately master it - again lots of chats in our household about how everyone has different abilities and strengths.
I agree with the advice to let them see failure, the cake that didn't rise properly that still tastes great warm from the oven, the craft project that didn't quite work - acknowledge that these things frustrate you as well, but then let them see how you deal with the frustration.
It does get easier as they get older.

 

[Kiwi]

Oh yes, I have one of those ( cant think who she takes after, cough )

LOL, me too! (and yes, me too).

It does get easier as they get older.

Unfortunately it hasn't got any easier with my one, probably worse. She was recently talking about giving up gymnastics because she wasn't enjoying training, but I think it was really because she had been making herself miserable with the mental beat-ups every time she didn't get a skill right. The trouble is, giving up gymnastics wouldn't solve the problem, she would just take it with her to the next thing she tried. We had a big talk about it, and I have been trying to get her to work on some positive self-talk. It seems to be helping so far...

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

It does get easier as they get older.

I probably didn't explain what I meant here... my children are still perfectionists. In their ideal world, everything would be absolutely perfect the first time, their lives would be perfectly ordered and they would never get anything wrong.
As they have got older they have gradually learnt that life doesn't work like that and ever so slowly learnt to be able, on a good day, to let some stuff go. Of course on a bad day everything still goes into meltdown mode

I think their ability to deal with the frustration of lack of perfection has grown as they have gotten older, so that now not every single thing sends them into a state of panic.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

that so describes my daughter @mumoftwogymnasts , she now appears outwardly confident, due to gymnastics, but inwardly she is still a bit of a jelly and if things go wrong she panics. I think her new coaches ascribe this behaviour as a "strop", but I do try and explain she is not being disrespectful and willful, she is terrified inside. It normally happens when they spring something on her, but she never does it with her rhythmic coach as she talks her through the steps and her expectations slowly and gives her time to absorb the lesson plan.