Alternative Grades..

[Frase]

Obviously most of us (parents anyway) will just have mainly focused on the changes to the grade that our own dd is aiming to do. In dd's case she should be moving from national 8 last grades to national 3 next grades.

In my opinion I don't think it has changed much from what was expected last year. The only things that really spring to mind are on beam - a change in the jump sequence (which works for dd) and the addition of the straddle jump (which really doesnt!). I actually think the range is easier now.

I thought this might have been a good opportunity to up the difficulty of the national grades to try and bridge the gap between it and compulsory but it doesn't seem the case. From the comments here it seems the regional grades have been affected more - though I don't really know what they were so am no expert!

 

[Jenny]

Two things spring to mind:
(a) I don't think "club" grades are the place for such excellence....that is surely the role of the national and elite route. It sends the wrong signal - "we only want you to do gymnastics if you have what it takes to one day become an elite". Surely the role of "club" grades is to keep girls who can do well regionally, but who will most probably never make it to elite, in the sport. Otherwise....all that's left is two piece comps;
(b) it's pretty common knowledge that this countries most successful female gymnast (and Amanda's biggest "star") had dreadful range and conditioning;

I've heard a lot of experienced people (who absolutely know excellence when the see it) say that the leg dip on beam has no role in the introductory grades...that if BG want to use it, it should appear far higher up the grade structure. As Jenny says, it is not really a skill that has an obvious future benefit (the only skill I can think of which is remotely similar is the spin done on beam from a squatted position with one leg out in front....have no idea what it's called). That makes me suspicious that the real reason it's been included is to reduce the field (after all it appears right at the age there is already attrition from the sport and doesn't really match up with the difficulty level of what's required on the other pieces).

Actually I do agree with your point about club grades for club gymnasts not for elite. But the skills are not that hard and are totally appropriate for those kids. It is the clubs who place the requirements of perfection not BG.

The leg dip is not that hard I just can't see the point of it. I hate those sitting wolf spins anyway. I can assure you it has not been included to reduce the field! If a girl has every other move and can only go halfway down on that one skill I can't see any reason not to do the grade. And it is not harder than any other piece. 'Hard' is specific to each child's strengths and weaknesses. To one it might be the baby giant. To others it might be splits.

 

[Uglybetty]

But that is only in 6 right ? )

The leg dip is grade 5.

 

[Jenny]

Yes it is only in 5. Not having that one move right down should not stop a kid doing grade 5.

I actually think the walk hands out to long front support in grade 6 is way harder. The deduction of 0.1 shown position is really hard - almost flat. I can't see many kids getting below that position to not get a deduction on it. I had some really strong kids try it (holding the diagram in front to check against it) and only one could get below it and then she couldn't hold it for 2 and touched her tummy on the beam.

@Frase the club grades have hardly changed. Just a few things here and there. I think the pass mark has been lowered too but I could be wrong.

 

[Ex member]

The dip on beam seems like the mill circle in the USA, something that has no real use or progressions from learning them.

I am interested in the "walking hands out to front support on beam and hold it for 2 seconds" that doesn't sound too hard, do they have to go down to a certain height and hold it there?

 

[stillgotmyleotard]

I would agree with what Jenny said above; each kid is going to find different things difficult. The leg dip is going to be hard for kids whose thighs are not so strong and whose conditioning doesn't address it. I also agree that the r&c for the club grades is not difficult, at least for kids who are training several hours every week.

And I do agree with uglybetty that club grades are not for excellence so much as levels are for elite. But the grades are for kids who have been pulled out of rec, and I feel like the rec BAGA badges are more for getting skills that are passable. Those kids that are pulled out of rec to train seriously should be striving to be as close to excellence as possible, but that is my own personal opinion.

Perhaps the main purpose of challenging skills in early grades are to gets kids ready for the attainment of skills as they progress through the sport. Which absolutely will involve pushing through difficulty and working towards the varying strengths they all need to make progress.

Like I said, I will be interested to see what the changes mean in terms of entries and pass-rates. Though, if it is true that the pass marks have been lowered, it may not be so easy to work out.

 

[Jenny]

The dip on beam seems like the mill circle in the USA, something that has no real use or progressions from learning them.

I am interested in the "walking hands out to front support on beam and hold it for 2 seconds" that doesn't sound too hard, do they have to go down to a certain height and hold it there?

In the picture shown the gymnast is only slightly dished and that is a 0.1 penalty. To have no penalty you would have to virtually make a straight line from hands to feet with your tummy held off the beam by a few inches and hold it for 2 seconds and then walk the feet in.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I think entries will very much depend on club Ethos as has been said before.

I reference stories of girls pulled from comps at the last minute if coaches don't beleive that they will win ( I think @Flossyduck you have mentioned that a lot last year as well as @Noideaaboutgym ), I'm sure that attitude will continue through with grades, but the vast majority of clubs don't view the situation like that and are happy to "make up the numbers" - someone has to come last and in my opinion, as long as they are getting something positive from the situation then its a win.

 

[Uglybetty]

I am torn about what is best for my own DD. Is it better to do a grade if you're capable of it (or most of it)? Or to work towards skills for the future?

I have no doubt she'd pass the grade (with deductions for the leg dips) but in our region that would then force her to compete Novice (even at two pieces) and there is no way she'd be competitive at that level yet. It would mean competing with girls doing double the hours.

She's the kind of kid who doesn't develop skills particularly quickly but when she gets them she does them well (very low deductions at her last few competitions). It'll probably do her confidence some good to work on skills for the future and carry on with two pieces for now.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

depends on her age, our county used to do the whole, novice, intermediate etc thing, but now all comps are arranged on a level basis from 7 up, so the beginners do a level 7 F&V and then a level 7 4 piece.

It depends if its about winning or competing. Pink used to be very much motivated by winning, and within the county usually does, but she understands its a different story regionally and is happy with top half regionally.

 

[sce]

I admit to really not understanding the system in the UK but it sounds like the gym had a reason for making a change. TD have you asked what the plan is?

 

[Flossyduck]

It's a difficult one this.
I completely agree with the fact that regional grades should be achievable for most competitive gymnasts. I also agree that skills should be taught properly and done correctly from the start. So, as ever, there's a difficult balance between doing the skills really well and progression.

You're right @Iwannabemargo our gym only enters girls who it thinks can score well, medal, or at least place towards the top. Their argument is that they think it's bad for a girls confidence to finish low down in the rankings. Personally I don't agree with that at all. i think it's much worse for a girls confidence to feel that her gym/coach/head coach doesn't believe in her and that they are more concerned with their reputation then they are with her progression. My dd would prefer to compete and pass than be told she's not allowed to because she might effectively 'embarrass' the club. Obviously that's not what they would say, but it's kinda what they're thinking if you strip it down.

The problem is that, because the skills for regional grades are relatively easy, there are a lot of girls who can compete them, so really you have to be very polished to stand a chance of getting a placement. Our lower regional grades have about 30-60 competitors, most of whom can actually do all the skills. It's very hard to stand out.

My feeling - if the skills have been taught properly, so they're not ugly, and the gymnast has them and wants to compete then let them. Otherwise we're into the whole debate I hear about the US system where gyms hold back to sand bag and I've read how well that goes down!

 

[Ex member]

I admit to really not understanding the system in the UK but it sounds like the gym had a reason for making a change. TD have you asked what the plan is?

I am planning on asking the coach tomorrow if grades are still on the cards for next year, it maybe a case that they don't think the girls will be ready in time and will not do them this year, this will not hurt dd as she is the youngest and the oldest is 6 years older. Just frustrating for the girls (and parents) to be told that they are doing them if there has been a change of plan, I understand plans do change and usually for a good reason but so far the girls have not been told anything as far as I know.

I have spoken to one of Dd's teammates mum (she has an older dd who listens more carefully to what is being said at the end of group meeting and remembers more). She said that the coach is going to write their range and conditioning homework in their books to do over the Christams break, dd is still adamant that the coach said the grades in their books were wrong (they are the same ones as BG published on their website so cannot be wrong unless they are not doing the new Club Grades and doing county levels 1-6 ? instead).

If I don't get a chance to ask the coach then I will most likely find out next week as the last day of training is 23rd December and they should get their books back by then if they are given homework to do over Christmas shutdown.

 

[Gymbee06]

Wasn't the leg dip in grade 14 beam this year? I could have sworn my dd did it and had to lay on her back on the beam put and raise her feet to touch the beam above her head? I personally don't thinks there's much difference between grade 14 and the club 5 or maybe I'm just confused and I'm thinking the moves she did in her level 4 competition is similar to grade 14

 

[xrachx]

Reading all these posts makes me realise how lucky we are with DDs gym.
The competitive girls may only train 3hrs a week, but the HC likes to get them competing, regardless of what outcome is expected for them. They all know that they are generally going to be competing against girls on more hours, but it makes their placings when they do happen all that more impressive.

But I know the HC is being more cautious with grades and wants to make sure everyone can definitely pass at the very least.

Hoping we'll find out on Saturday as it's the last session before the 2 week break. Fingers crossed!

 

[Jenny]

Wasn't the leg dip in grade 14 beam this year? I could have sworn my dd did it and had to lay on her back on the beam put and raise her feet to touch the beam above her head? I personally don't thinks there's much difference between grade 14 and the club 5 or maybe I'm just confused and I'm thinking the moves she did in her level 4 competition is similar to grade 14

There was a similar move in grade 14 but the new one in grade 5 is harder. Grade 14 is almost identical to the new Grade 6. As it should be as it is the new version. Grade 5 is almost identical to the old grade 13.

Level 4 is completely different. Level 4 is a much higher level - think giants on bars, flicks on beam and multiple somersaults on floor.

 

[Uglybetty]

You're right @Iwannabemargo our gym only enters girls who it thinks can score well, medal, or at least place towards the top. Their argument is that they think it's bad for a girls confidence to finish low down in the rankings. Personally I don't agree with that at all. i think it's much worse for a girls confidence to feel that her gym/coach/head coach doesn't believe in her and that they are more concerned with their reputation then they are with her progression. My dd would prefer to compete and pass than be told she's not allowed to because she might effectively 'embarrass' the club. Obviously that's not what they would say, but it's kinda what they're thinking if you strip it down.
!

We could almost be at the same gym, although I know we're not. I've come realise that reputation comes above all else.
The one thing which I've noticed though is that the pressure to medal is huge. It permeates throughout the whole ethos. Nobody has ever said to my DD "we expect you to medal" or made her feel bad for not medalling, but she feels that pressure and there have been tears when she hasn't. She has placed very well (despite having a very low start value) but there is no doubt in my mind that she wants to medal. I've tried pointing out how many girls in her group weren't even allowed to compete, but she won't listen.

Actually....my biggest beef (although I know this probably deserves a fresh thread) is the fact that in our region the "Pre-novice" level is so high...stuff like RO BHS BHS, FHS, FT and half on half off vaults. It's a bit disheartening for beginners when they can't possibly hope to medal because their start value isn't yet high enough.

 

[Ex member]

DD will not be doing the new club grades this year, they are doing county levels, my dd told me that she will be either level 4 or 5 (the coach wants her to do 5), I think the county grades go from 1-6, 1 being the lowest and 6 being the highest. The coach told me that they aim to do grades in 2016, the reasoning for that is that this is a new group and have had next to no competition experience (except one tumble and trampette friendly a couple of weeks ago), the coach wants them to be able to do more comps next year to gain experience and confidence that perhaps doing club grades will not allow, perhaps she has local 4 piece comps in mind that you cannot enter if you have already passed a club grade, I can see the sense in this, for dd this is not a problem as she will turn 10 in 2016 and can do regional 4 or national 4 if she is capable, or if not club grade 5 as there seems to be no upper age limit.

 

[Rapunzel]

Glad they've let you know their plan and it seems to make sense. Sounds like you and your daughters will have an exciting year ahead!

 

[Ex member]

Thank you, it does make sense as they will not have had enough time to train and be ready for the new club grades this year as they spent this year catching up on strength and flexibility and "up training",doing county levels this year opens up the opertunity to do more comps in our area and then do the new grades in 2016.