WAG Is this the norm for training in the TOPs, Hopes & Elite Community???

[SurpriseGymMom]

So she is currently a L5 or 6? You mentioned she is schedule to score out of 7 after this season and compete L8 next season (2016)? If so, I would say that, generally, yes, she is definitely way behind on her skills to be considering Elite. We have one 10yo competing her second year of L8 currently and she is nowhere NEAR being Elite despite being a really great little gymnast.
Of course some gyms compete gymnasts way below their actual skill level, so perhaps that is the case here.

I think you have gotten some really good advice here. For my gymmie, the Elite path has never even been a smidgen of a possibility so nothing I have ever been faced with having to worry about. On the surface, I would like to think that I wouldn't allow my child to be treated cruelly but so much of gymnastics training could be considered "cruel" if you take it out of context and look at it alone, KWIM? I wouldn't say being forced to do rope climbs for a missed skill would be cruel, but if the coach is belittling and berating the gymnast telling her how worthless she is simultaneously, then it IS cruel, you know? If the coach tells the kids the consequences and matter of factly follows through, giving corrections and encouragement, then it's a totally different story.

Best of luck, I hope you find a great place for your DD to train that will give her the opportunities needed, regardless of what they may end up being!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

@bogwoppit I never said the girl was elite. I don't recall saying the girl would be junior elite either. I'm aware that you need to qualify elite compulsory and optional. Which is why I said she qualified elite compulsory. And that she's trying to qualify Hopes. This is the current gym. The gym dd was at HAS an elite gymnast. The first gym dd did the trial at also has one. Or if she has to re-qualify, had one.

You mean she attained the compulsory score for hopes but missed the optional score for hopes... You need to leave the word elite out of your description until she gets into hopes then qualifies into jr elite and then qualifies elite.

 

[bogwoppit]

You mean she attained the compulsory score for hopes but missed the optional score for hopes... You need to leave the word elite out of your description until she gets into hopes then qualifies into jr elite and then qualifies elite.

Yup, the word elite is a long way off.

 

[wallflower]

I think it sounds like a great place if you want your daughter to quit gymnastics.

I guess I'm also confused why anyone would be worried about elite before ever even competing optionals?

 

[kimute]

I just wanted to add that I hate seeing rope climbs and conditioning used as "punishment" or even discipline. My DD likes conditioning and loves climbing the rope. It would be sad if she started perceiving these as negative. Especially as the rope climb is part of TOPs testing. Our coaches just make them hop back up and try the skill again after a fall so that they get over the fall/potential fear and end on a positive note.

 

[myeyeson_u]

You need to leave the word elite out of your description until she gets into hopes then qualifies into jr elite and then qualifies elite.

That's fine. Maybe I got the verbiage wrong. And I also didn't say she missed the score for optionals. I never mentioned anything about that. She hasn't done that yet. And the last time I checked, once you're junior elite, you're elite. Junior & Senior elite. Both elite, just different age ranges.

 

[bogwoppit]

But Hopes is not considered elite, it is Hopes. You can qualify junior elite as young as 11, I believe. You do re-qualify yearly.

 

[bogwoppit]

What level is your dd competing now?

Has this coach produced elites in the US?

 

[myeyeson_u]

I know that Hopes isn't elite. Why do you keep insinuating that I'm saying Hopes is Elite? My subj says TOPs, Hopes & Elite. I'm aware that they're all different. As far as the qualifications, as I said to coachp, I had the verbiage wrong. Cool! But I know the difference between the three.

 

[bogwoppit]

You said this...

"He's gotten one of his girls' qualified elite compulsory (She's trying to qualify Hopes)."

Hopes is not Elite, yet you say he qualified her.

It is confusing to say the least.

 

[Empowered]

Not even going to wade into the elite/non-elite portion of this. Just going to talk about the punishments.

First off no crying has been a rule in a couple of gyms my daughter has attended. Clearly if you are seriously injured there is an exception, but by and large splitting the beam (albeit painful and embarrassing) isn't going to cause serious injury. As for the coach telling her what she did wrong to cause the split, uh that's pretty much their job. If she is repeating a fixable error that's causing the fall the coach would be remiss to not fix it. And further, as a parent you don't know how many times the kid has made this mistake. For all you know that kid is reminded daily of the error and refuses to correct it.

As for the rope climbs, I think my daughter would jump up and down if she only had to do rope climbs for falls. I have seen much worse in terms of punishments. My daughter's gym is currently torturing her with a lovely little method of punishment, but it's what her coaches think she needs. They are sick and tired of her falling at meets on stuff she can do in her sleep... Sometimes a little tough love is needed. Rope climbs done the tops way work the arms, shoulders, core, legs... pretty much strength and tightness from head to toe so it benefits every event.

Yelling is yelling. Some coaches yell and it's loud and shocking, but one of the cruelest coaches my child has ever had literally never raised her voice. So I don't necessarily equate loudness with "abuse."

What it boils down to for me is that you chose a gym and you don't seem to like how they're coaching, however none of what they're doing seems outwardly abusive to me. They're likely not going to change, so you need to evaluate if you can handle it and stay, or if you need to move on.

Just my two cents.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i love rope! it should never be used as a tactical punishment.

 

[twinmomma]

We are NOWHERE near being a gym that is on par with producing Elites. So I can't speak to that. What I can say is that DD's gym does not use rope climbs for punishment. I have seen conditioning used as punishment, but as another poster said, my DD loves conditioning. If you really want to punish her, send her to the barre to do ballet with the dance teacher she'll shape up in no time!

The reality is, you have to decide what you want your kid to get out of this sport. The likelihood of Elite, or heck even college gymnastics, is slim. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have two kids in highly competitive sports that could both lead to really big things, and I don't doubt that if I dropped everything and homeschooled them and moved to a better gym or a better baseball program or whatever that we might (MIGHT) be able to make it happen for one of them. And then what? What if it doesn't? What sort of damage will have been done through the years with coaches who are abusive (if that's the case, I'm not sure it is here) or the loss of time to just "be a kid" and still never having achieved the proverbial brass ring? I don't want my kids to look back on their careers in sports and feel like it was wasted simply because they didn't make elite or college (or MLB in the case of my son).

Life lessons, folks. Of all of us on CB, how many of us are going to have kids who really make the elite level? College sure, but even that number is SMALL. Every little girl in gymnastics dreams of the Olympics. As parents it's our job to turn them into well rounded human beings and being realistic about their paths in their sports is one way we do that. I'm not saying you crush your kids dreams, by all means provide them as much access to that path as you can reasonably provide. But don't put them in a situation you wouldn't normally allow simply because some coach maybe or maybe hasn't gotten one girl halfway qualified to elite. If it isn't the right environment for your kid, then move her. It's that simple.

 

[kayjaybe]

I don't know anything about elite or hopes or tops or any of those other things. I'd set all of that stuff aside and look at my child.

Is she happy? Is she healthy? Does she want to go to practice? Does she seem excited about her coaches and team (most of the time --- they all go through tough periods)?

What is your sense as a parent? Do the coaches' actions seem reasonable?

The fact that you are here questioning it makes me think that you know something is wrong.

Don't let your search for the "elite" blind you to what is going on with the gym and your child. Who cares if your child makes it all the way to the Olympics if she is miserable doing it?

Think about what you want her to learn from gymnastics. Do you want her to learn it is OK to treat people horribly if it gets them to perform better? Because that's what it sounds like this gym will teach her.

 

[wgymmom]

The only time I've seen rope climbs used as punishment/discipline was when a girl was late for a meet.

If girls cry, they are sent to get water and collect their thoughts.

Seriously, if DD had to do 5 rope climbs every time she fell on her full turn on beam, she'd be a beast.

 

[wgymmom]

ETA: We're not elite/TOPS/Hopes/whatever, but still.

 

[wallflower]

You said this...

"He's gotten one of his girls' qualified elite compulsory (She's trying to qualify Hopes)."

Hopes is not Elite, yet you say he qualified her.

It is confusing to say the least.

Hopes does require you test the elite compulsories so that would be what they are called. I don't know how else you would say they have passed the "elite compulsories".

 

[mimi]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really think it is that terrible for a gymnast to cry for a second when they split the beam. I mean, I've never done gymnastics but I was a collegiate athlete and have cried plenty of times when I have done something that "hurts" even if it didn't result in a legit injury. Of course we are talking a couple of sniffles not a full blown cry fest.
I just think it is human nature at times of pain or frustration that tears will come as a reaction to the emotions/pain felt. Especially when many of these kids are elementary school aged! Seems like it might be hard for kids who are so young to have the mental maturity to stop the tears as they feel it coming on.
Crying happens at our gym at times and for the most part it is left alone unless someone is going on and on, in which case the coaches tell the gymnast to pull themselves together.

The coaches at our gym seem to be harder on the elites but I wouldn't expect anything different considering how physically and mentally tough a child has to be to go elite.

 

[LizzieLac]

I have been starting all of my posts with "I know nothing" - but I know even less about Hopes and elite whatever. I can only share what I observe and experience and what works from what I observe and experience.

Yelling may get results, but only you can decide if that is the kind of coaching an relationship you want your child to have.

Conditioning as punishment may work, but only you can decide if that is the kind of coaching that works for your child.

I think if a kid misses a skill, the proper response is "go try it again" as long as she is not in danger of getting hurt. Also, kids miss skills because of technique - is the coach correcting technique or just sending her to ropes?

Abundant crying is not ideal, but this sport is hard and the kids are emotionally invested and sometimes their is physical pain. To say NO crying at all is unrealistic.

Lastly, our HC doesn't always say the right thing, and he only had one hopeful elite, but lots of upper lever optionals going onto college, many with scholarships. He would never punish a kid with ropes for missing a skill. He might punish them with conditioning for goofing around, being disruptive, not nice to her teammates, or even for being lazy and not trying. I am ok with those things.

 

[twinmomma]

Abundant crying is not ideal, but this sport is hard and the kids are emotionally invested and sometimes their is physical pain. To say NO crying at all is unrealistic.

Lastly, our HC doesn't always say the right thing, and he only had one hopeful elite, but lots of upper lever optionals going onto college, many with scholarships. He would never punish a kid with ropes for missing a skill. He might punish them with conditioning for goofing around, being disruptive, not nice to her teammates, or even for being lazy and not trying. I am ok with those things.

THIS.