WAG Missing shoot through a Level 3? (spot, omit?)

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sevenatenine2

Coach
Proud Parent
I have an athlete that can not get her shoot through. She has done it on the single bar and does it okay with a small spot but when she's on her own she won't even go for it.
We compete this weekend.
Would it be better for her score to just do a leg cut or for me to spot her? A judge old me last year that they can deduct less from a smaller spot but reading from other posts it seems that May not be true. Any ideas?
 
a spot is a spot is a spot... but they can deduct less of the SKILL VALUE for a small spot... it is based on how much of the skill they do on their own. At least that is my understanding.
 
Thanks, friends. We are a fairly rec. gym that competes Level 2, 3, and XCEL Silver right now. They train twice a week, about 8 hours total. This is a kid that skipped Level 2 and is probably in the high 8 low 9 range on beam and floor---mid 9 on vault. I hate to have her scratch and feel like a punishment when she's doing fine, just not quite as up to speed on bars as the other events. I am going to work with her and bring a reward to go for it and try---we will see. She's competing 3A (ribbons based on scores) instead of 3P (placement), so it's not a super competitive environment.
 
If it's not super competitive, than even better to try for it! Really, when you boil all this gymnastics down, she should go for it and maybe she will get it, and feel awesome!!!!! If not she will still be fine!
 
My youngest DD got her first ever mill circle on her own at a mock meet. :) Let her just go for it.
 
Does she fall safely? If so, let her compete. If she falls it's the same deduction as a spot, but maybe she'll make it!

If not safe, scratch bars.
 
She doesn't get her foot through at all---so she will just do a big cast with a half hearted kick with one leg but nowhere near through the bar.

I don't usually coach bars but I pulled her last night. It's a fear issue, as even when I spotted her last night, she would do a small kick, stop (while I'm holding her up) and then go. She articulated she's afraid she's going to fall forward. She does know how to fall. She's not even doing them on the single rail anymore.

I've told her to do a leg cut and we will revisit the shoot through after the meet.
 
She articulated she's afraid she's going to fall forward. She does know how to fall.

Just in case this hasn't been covered in teaching her how to fall (for the benefit of others out there):





I take it she's done stride support positions in overgrip and practiced how to save herself by purposely falling forward?

I have had a couple of kids who consistently would get their leg through but allow their hips to drop and shoulders to come back as it happened, resulting in them falling backward. Can she at least get her leg through? Or not even that?

One thing that helped on the confidence side of the equation (of them not being afraid to keep the hips elevated long enough to get the leg through and stay over the bar) was to have them wrap their thumbs around the rail for the single leg shoot through. This helped pretty much instantly, as they realized how much more control it gave them.

Is she flexible enough to cast not even very high, just to get one foot onto the bar (like a single leg squat on)? Then just slip it through? This might be a progression exercise that could help.

I don't know if she's done this, but another exercise I start kids out with are what I call elevator ups (front support, pike press as high as they can, then try and slip one leg through). It builds strength and eliminates the uncertainty of swinging into it (i.e., casting).

Looking forward beyond this weekend (good luck to her!), hope something I mentioned that hasn't been tried yet proves helpful to you or others out there.
 
If it's not super competitive, than even better to try for it! Really, when you boil all this gymnastics down, she should go for it and maybe she will get it, and feel awesome!!!!! If not she will still be fine!

or maybe she'll get hurt...
 
or maybe she'll get hurt...
Sorry, its gymnastics........you can get hurt anytime (no to mention, during walking)....if the child is in the 'go for it' mode, then coach should be in the 'extra vigilant, and ready to catch' mode.

But by all means, if she is doing the skill in an unsafe way, then don't do it!
 
Sorry, its gymnastics........you can get hurt anytime (no to mention, during walking)....if the child is in the 'go for it' mode, then coach should be in the 'extra vigilant, and ready to catch' mode.

that's not how we do it. that is contrary to EVERYTHING coaches learn thru safety education.

additionally, and because you are not a coach as well as others here, spotting is NOT fail proof. the speeds in which sudden accidents happen usually exceed that of the human reaction time. this is fact and has been studied and researched ad nauseum.

kids HAVE BEEN injured whilst being spotted. kids and coaches BOTH have been injured whilst a spot was being executed.

kids have been seriously injured doing shoot thru's and mill circles when mishaps have taken place.

if this was NOT the case, you would not see nor would there be a use for the video that Neil and Tom have put together for coaches.

that's all. :)
 
She doesn't get her foot through at all---so she will just do a big cast with a half hearted kick with one leg but nowhere near through the bar.

I don't usually coach bars but I pulled her last night. It's a fear issue, as even when I spotted her last night, she would do a small kick, stop (while I'm holding her up) and then go. She articulated she's afraid she's going to fall forward. She does know how to fall. She's not even doing them on the single rail anymore.

I've told her to do a leg cut and we will revisit the shoot through after the meet.

better safe than sorry. this is the correct decision. :)
 
She has done them before safely on the single rail. I don't believe it is a physical problem since she has done them before correctly. She does have the the short arms long torso body that makes it more difficult.

Like I said, I haven't coached her on bars in a few months. She's been with another coach. I stepped in this week and now that I've identified the problem is fear we will go back and really work the slip grip, etc.

Right now, she is at the point that she is almost balking when I'm spotting, even when I am holding a leg up keeping her in the cast position and all she has to do is put the leg through from a good position, she'll start to poke it through, stop, then go again. We're just going to leg cut this weekend and then back completely up for a while.




"I take it she's done stride support positions in overgrip and practiced how to save herself by purposely falling forward? "

Can you clarify this? I've shown her how to go from the stride position of a shoot through and then fall forward to hanging under the bar with one leg still hooked. Is that what you mean?
 
She has done them before safely on the single rail. I don't believe it is a physical problem since she has done them before correctly. She does have the the short arms long torso body that makes it more difficult.

Like I said, I haven't coached her on bars in a few months. She's been with another coach. I stepped in this week and now that I've identified the problem is fear we will go back and really work the slip grip, etc.

Right now, she is at the point that she is almost balking when I'm spotting, even when I am holding a leg up keeping her in the cast position and all she has to do is put the leg through from a good position, she'll start to poke it through, stop, then go again. We're just going to leg cut this weekend and then back completely up for a while.




"I take it she's done stride support positions in overgrip and practiced how to save herself by purposely falling forward? "

Can you clarify this? I've shown her how to go from the stride position of a shoot through and then fall forward to hanging under the bar with one leg still hooked. Is that what you mean?

watch Neil and Tom's video above. :)
 
that's not how we do it. that is contrary to EVERYTHING coaches learn thru safety education.

additionally, and because you are not a coach as well as others here, spotting is NOT fail proof. the speeds in which sudden accidents happen usually exceed that of the human reaction time. this is fact and has been studied and researched ad nauseum.

kids HAVE BEEN injured whilst being spotted. kids and coaches BOTH have been injured whilst a spot was being executed.

kids have been seriously injured doing shoot thru's and mill circles when mishaps have taken place.

if this was NOT the case, you would not see nor would there be a use for the video that Neil and Tom have put together for coaches.

that's all. :)
Then I kindly bow down, I am not a coach and no I dont have the safety qualifications, im just a parent...
I just gave my opinion to go for it, but i have no idea how she is doing it, nor does anyone except the parent and coach.......
but since sevenatenine2 is a coach, they would be a better judge of the 'go for it' mentality and if it could work or not.
i am not saying to stand back and tell the child to do it......OP says 'spot or omit' so my opinion is to spot, and have her try it.....thats all.
 
I do not teach the slip grip, I teach the fall. reason being I have had kids try and slip grip when first learning giants and oh boy is that dangerous.
 

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