WAG Strength for kids with low strength to body weight ratios

[sevenatenine2]

I have a couple of kids that are a little heavier than most competitive gymnasts and are very weak in the upper body as well. The combination has been frustrating for us both, primarily in that they are weak on bars and my efforts to condition them haven't been all that successful. They suffer through the conditioning that the other kids do, but often times I feel like the coach is doing more of their chin ups and flexed arm hangs than they are and honestly, I haven't seen much improvement in their strength over the past few months.

They can do push ups decently, but it's the lifting of their own weight that is difficult for them. Are there any other drills are skills that may be easier yet still help them improve their body weight?

For the record, they can do groups of pushups with good body position. Neither can do even one pull up by themselves. They can do flexed arm hangs for about 3 seconds before needing support. Also, while they are pretty big for competitive gymnasts (mainly in the belly), I wouldn't classify them as big for their ages if I saw them with a group of school classmates, for example. I think their strength issue is a bigger problem than their size, but because they are weak AND have a bigger body to propel, we are having issues.

 

[MILgymFAM]

This sounds so much like my younger DD. Unfortunately her artistic coaches just wrote her off, and so here we are in T&T. At home, we bought a band for my husband's pull up bar and she does her own assisted pull ups. It's not ideal, but she is slowly getting stronger. She went from last summer not even being able to do one assisted pull up, to doing twenty assisted and one unassisted. She is 11 and 130 lbs, so it's been a struggle. It's a slooow process, but she is doing it at home, for herself. I applaud you for taking the time and making the effort.

 

[mommyof1]

At home, we bought a band for my husband's pull up bar and she does her own assisted pull ups.

I just googled these bands because they sounded like something I could use myself, and ran across the following:

http://moveskill.com/2014/07/elasti...-more-harm-to-your-pull-up-progress-than-good

I have no way to judge the credibility of the source, but it makes intuitive sense to me. The basic idea is that the bands give you the most help at the bottom, where you don't need it, and the least help at the top, where you need it the most, and encourage poor form. The site suggests using your feet for assistance instead.

Experts, your thoughts?

Signed, a mom who is trying to get back her pull-up and splits because she is embarrassed that her 8-year-old is in way better shape than she is

 

[MILgymFAM]

I know that at my hubby's work (he's a Marine) they have the bands for the female Marines who need to work toward pull-ups. I figured if it works for them (lol).. Anyway, I figured anything she wanted to do to help herself was the best thing.. I guess for girls training bars still, it needs to be more specific.

 

[gymdog]

I actually think a lot of kids need the most help at the bottom. Not sure about adults. Frequently kids can do a chin up hold for 10+ seconds or whatever! but can't pull to that position. Usually when I spot them I just help them halfway and they can pull from there.

Anyway, I was going to recommend using the bands too, the other thing is to have them out their feet on something in front of them to make the pull-ups easier rather than spotting. I would not spot - find a place where they can do it and that is their progression.

It is hard but with that level of disparity I would recommend having them separate into partners and then have 2-3 different lists that they complete with their partner. Otherwise all your attention is going to go to spotting the kids who can't do it. Whatever the lowest list is has to be something they can do by themselves. Ideas for upper body they can do by themselves:

-modified pull-ups (feet in front on block, band, tip toes on the ground to help pull-up and then lower slooooowly)
-hang on bar (sounds silly but they can just hang for 30 seconds or more)
-dips with hands on tumble track or similar height and just dip up and down
-handstand hold against an incline mat on the wall (makes them able to get straight)
-more push up variations
-front support shoulder shrugs

When they work with the partner they will complete one set with their partner counting, then rest and count for the other partner, then complete the next set. Educate the kids on how the exercise should be correctly performed so they can provide cues to their partner.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

I coach two girls who are a bit bigger than competitive kids normally are - I wouldn't classify them overweight if I saw them with their classmates either but yes they have a few extra pounds. They are heavier and their upper body strength isn't great but I would say they have more issues with leg lifts than with chin ups. They have always had harder time on bars but on floor, beam and vault they are very good and they are usually the first ones to pick up the new skills. I love coaching them both. I remember when I started coaching them (they are now 10 and 12 years old but when we started the younger one was 7 and the older one was 9) and they couldn't do pull ups. I kept telling them they will get stronger but they have to work a bit more than the others with more natural strength. There was much crying at that time when they couldn't complete the conditioning in time or they felt they were not good enough. That was hard for them and for me too. If I gave them less reps than the others that made them feel bad also. Then we moved to a system where they asked for help straight away when they were struggling and I made sure that it wasn't a big deal. I always complimented them if I saw them really put in 100% when I spotted them. I said things like: "I can see how your forehead is getting sweaty, that's awesome and tells me you are putting in all your effort. That means that you will get stronger." If I saw even a LITTLE improvement (half leg lift more than last time by themselves or one more step on rope climb) I made a big deal about it. That made them SEE how hard work pays off even if it was slower road for them and it made them believe in themselves. We also discussed about personal strengths and weaknesses with the group and that way they all notices that everyone has their own areas to shine and also areas that they need to work on more than the others.

Now they are both beautiful gymnasts, still on the heavier side (mostly the extra pounds are in belly) but they CAN do kips, they can to tap swings, strap bar giants, free hips on straps etc. Their biggest struggle by far has been the hanging pull over in the first competitive level, it was HARD for them to get but when they got it we celebrated it SO much! They feel like kips are even easier than that skill. They have good technique and understanding of their own body movements.

I feel like the getting over the emotional stress and starting to believe in themselves was the most important thing for us to learn on this road! There weren't any magical conditioning drills that made them stronger - it was more in their heads.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

I like bands to help the kids gain the strength needed. I agree with Gymdog, kids usually struggle with the first half. The bands help develop even strength between the arms, rather than those lopsided pulling ones that kids do in desperation just to get up. I have two different bands set at my chin up station and the kids are encouraged to do chin ups without the bands, but to use the appropriate band if they will not be able to complete the set.

Oh and the bands are useful for a bunch of other drills and progressions

 

[coachmolly]

I have a few kids who are really struggling with strength as well. A few of them are a little bigger than the average gymnast their age, mostly when it comes to bar strength as well- pull-ups, leg lifts, L-hangs. I also have a tiny little one who CANNOT get a pullover by herself. We have been doing spotted pull-ups at every practice for the last month, but like you, I feel like the coaches are doing more than the girls, so I appreciate the suggestions here! I have tried the pull-ups with their feet up and the girls don't seem to get much from them- they can whip out 10 like it's nothing and not even get close to 1 real pull-up, are we doing something wrong?
In May I just started giving each kid a personalized conditioning assignment- we would do some stuff together and then they would work on different things. For the first month most of the kids had the same stuff, just slightly different reps plus 1 "personalized" something. Now that we are a month in I plan to revamp and make them even more individualized. I have a group of kids who are super strong and can breeze through everything but really struggle with form and dance, the kids who struggle with bar strength, and those who need extra flexibility work.