Coaches Tsuks outdated?

[Coach Roy]

I have been noticing a trend among my coaching friends that most of them don't even bother teaching Tsukahara vaults at all. Period. After mastering FHS they pretty much go straight into chenko' work and go from there. What are your thoughts as to why this is an increasing trend?

 

[JBS]

Crap

 

[All Chalked Up]

Chenko is better for little females as it is easier to generate more power... not sure about the boys' side.

As a little female myself... I LOVE tsuk entry. Much preferred over yurchenko. I think tsuk vaults should be given more value in the code to increase variety of vaults performed

 

[gopuckgo]

Maybe it's a regional thing? I've noticed some regions do Tsuks more than others. I saw a lot of meets with Level 8's doing them, but by 9 and 10 most kids have changed over to a Yurchenko. I personally like to see the front entry vaults too. I wish there was more diversity at the upper levels.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think tsuks are still worthwhile for those who are likely to eventually do kazamatsus. If they don't naturally twist the correct direction for a kaz, then I'd probably skip the tsuk as well.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Do whatever is easiest for the athlete, but work the Chenko along side. Word on the street is, they may be devaluing the Chenko Full in NCAA. Meaning the 1 1/2 and other vaults are going to be more sought after . Not sure if this is true or just hearsay but I think that eventually something will happen, so don't give up on the other vault families!

 

[2gymmies]

Word on the street is, they may be devaluing the Chenko Full in NCAA. Meaning the 1 1/2 and other vaults are going to be more sought after .

It happened!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I had heard that it was a 05 drop in sv, is that what happened?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yep

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Well, the anti just went up and its open season on the other vault families! Let the games begin!

 

[2gymmies]

Any of you coaches know the details on the bars changes - does the posh/pak or posh/bail routine still get full value or do you need a single bar release? Some discrepancy in the rumor mill about that one...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I do not know when this takes effect, but.
It looks like the Pak / Shaposh combo will still fulfill the "up To" requirement/deduction (D,D) but the Shaposh to C bail will not (D,C) or the Bail to toe hect will not, (D,C).
So you need a single bar D release, Or Any E release, Or min of any Two D releases, or min of ANY two E skills.
Someone please correct me if this in incorrect but that is the information I got.

For Vault the Chenko full and chenko half are both 9.95.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I should also add that I am not sure about the value conversion from JO to NCAA, so some combo's may indeed be more or less.

 

[rollergirl44]

I think tsuks are still worthwhile for those who are likely to eventually do kazamatsus. If they don't naturally twist the correct direction for a kaz, then I'd probably skip the tsuk as well.

the reason tsuks have fallen out of favor is because the yurchenko entry is easier for small gymnasts to generate the power necessary to complete the vault. i agree with previous posters that the tsuk should be valued higher than yurchenko because having the power necessary to complete the skill well should be rewarded. but i'm confused as to why a kaz is worth doing but a tsuk full (simply twisting in the other direction) is not worth doing. that's ludicrous. i twisted a tsuk full (lefty entry onto vault, twist right) which if you think about it is more "correct" than twisting left. if you are performing a half on as a lefty your body is technically twisting right in that portion of the skill, so not sure why twisting back the way you came would be the only "correct" way to do it. my coach growing up taught me a tsuk full and my teammate a kaz at the same time because we each performed it the way that was most natural for us as individuals. so please don't discriminate against tsuk fulls!

 

[JBS]

Crap

I didn't have time to expand before.

• We don't believe in ONLY teaching Yurchenko style vaults
• Yurchenkos are our preferred vault for L9 and up
• All of our kids learn and compete Tsuks before Yurchenkos
• All of our kids twist Tsuks / Kazs before twisting Yurchenkos. This may only be into loose foam...but that's what we do.
• We put few kids into hand front vaulting
• All optional athletes practice / drill front handsprings...Tsuks...and Yurchenkos if possible

Our ultimate goal would be to have the following for all gymnasts...but not necessarily on a hard surface or table...just want to see the movements...

• Hand Front (off of double springboard into loose foam would be fine)
• Tsukahara
• Yurchenko

 

[Hollowarchkick]

I have first year level 8s compete tsuks (almost as a rule). I like the snap through they learn doing that vault and it carries over to a number of skills. It also allows me more time to develop the yurchenko. I'm not rushed with that extra season of drills. I guess it just makes me more comfortable that they're completely ready for the yurchenko.
I think if you're going for elite level vaults and even the 1.5s for NCAA (10.0 start), the tsuk full is less desirable than a kaz because, leaving the vault, it's actually a half twist more. So if you're going for a tsuk full and a half, that's a lot tougher than a kaz half. And the yurchenko, as stated above, requires less "power" to do.
I like the tsuk full. In fact, it was my vault for awhile. But I think it's just harder than a yurchenko full or even a kaz.