WAG Can we talk about diff gyms philosophies about xcel?

[cbifoja]

I think most people do get that. People just like to talk and share since that's the purpose of Chalkbucket. I find it interesting to read about other ways things are done. It's not that I don't "get" it.

 

[momof2gymmies]

I get that it is the gyms decision. I was more wondering why the gym would do it this way. Why not move the kids up if they have the skills to compete the higher level cleanly? I don't think it is just about winning, b/c I do think the girls would do well at the higher level. If DD can get a 9.75 competing her beam routine she should get that same score, regardless of being silver or gold if the routine is the same. It shouldn't matter if YDD competes her robhs as a bronze or a silver. It is allowed at both, so why keep her a bronze when she can compete it just as cleanly as a silver?

In terms of not being on JO, it is what it is. My girls choice is xcel or no gym. It is the philosophy of gyms by us, except for one, which is not a USAG member. We are not moving, so their choice is nothing or xcel. I know that in the long run it really doesn't matter - chances of either one getting a scholarship if they were allowed to do JO is small. What they are getting out of gym is exactly what I want them to get out of gym.

I was more asking why some gyms insist on the maximum skills allowed for xcel, while others do the minimum, when both sets of girls are competing them cleanly.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I get that it is the gyms decision. I was more wondering why the gym would do it this way. Why not move the kids up if they have the skills to compete the higher level cleanly? I don't think it is just about winning, b/c I do think the girls would do well at the higher level. If DD can get a 9.75 competing her beam routine she should get that same score, regardless of being silver or gold if the routine is the same. It shouldn't matter if YDD competes her robhs as a bronze or a silver. It is allowed at both, so why keep her a bronze when she can compete it just as cleanly as a silver?

In terms of not being on JO, it is what it is. My girls choice is xcel or no gym. It is the philosophy of gyms by us, except for one, which is not a USAG member. We are not moving, so their choice is nothing or xcel. I know that in the long run it really doesn't matter - chances of either one getting a scholarship if they were allowed to do JO is small. What they are getting out of gym is exactly what I want them to get out of gym.

I was more asking why some gyms insist on the maximum skills allowed for xcel, while others do the minimum, when both sets of girls are competing them cleanly.

I wonder if some part of it is just stretching it out. Your gym cuts girls off from JO so young that they have a lot of years in the sport to only compete five levels. By holding to the two year per level rules, they won't have girls in diamond with 4-5-6 years to go and nowhere to move up. Just a thought.

 

[coachmolly]

Who knows! Xcel is used in so many different ways in different gyms. I have a group of girls training to be first year Bronze and panicked when I was looking on Youtube and kept finding videos of itty bitty Bronze girls who looked like they must have been TOPs kids with flawless presentation- how on earth was I supposed to get my girls there in the 3 hours/week they came?! Fortunately it seems like just a small number of gyms that do this, and I'm sure they have their reasons, but I feel like the playing field is a lot less level than in JO- and there is plenty of discrepancy there!
I think some gyms have a certain way they want to present themselves- whether that be in JO or Xcel and while the hours might be less, they won't relax their standards for anyone. Which is their choice, and an ideal game plan for training athletes, but doesn't take into account the fact that each child is an individual and that Xcel is meant to give more opportunities. Some gyms just like being the club that everyone watches with the utmost respect and hates to see coming because they are so competitive. Though, from what I have seen, your gym sounds like a minority. Most gyms doing Xcel I have seen who want to blow everyone away compete the minimum (or close to it) very well, while a fair number of others throw harder things knowing they have a few deductions but they want the kids to get that experience.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I get that it is the gyms decision. I was more wondering why the gym would do it this way.

That is something to ask the coach/owner.

Until I changed gyms I didn't realize there were differences. And coming here I found out there are lots of differences. But the only way to know why our gym does it the way they do is to ask.

I know why our gym does Xcel and JO at the same time. Because I asked. Our coach feels gymnastics is gymnastics. But they like the basics and foundation of the compulsory levels and the flexibility of expression of Xcel. They feel that flexibility allows the kids to start expressing themselves at a younger age, and that keeps it fun.

Our gym wants our kids to have solid skills to place well. They feel placing well gives them confidence and they want to keep going. That is their philosophy. It's not every gyms, is theirs.

Our gym doesn't score out. I have not had to specifically ask why but I have had enough conversations with the coach to know they don't want to deal with the "crazy gym parent" syndrome. They don't have to deal with parents on them about when their kids moves, why did Suzy move but not Sally. They don't have a huge staff and don't want to deal with kids learning new routines mid season and at different paces.

This gym trains less JO gym hours then most gyms, their philosophy being, they are kids, it's Ok to have other interests and it keeps strong gymnasts from leaving the sport because they can't do anything else. And they train more Xcel hours then some but certainly there are many other gyms where their Xcel teams train more then ours.

The only way to know why a gym/coach/owner does things a certain way is to ask them.

 

[twinmomma]

I think it's clear the OP understands it's the gym's' philosophy, hence the title of the post. And just because you ask questions doesn't mean you're going to get answers at your gym. Trust me. Coming from a gym that had zero clue what the rules even WERE (our gym owner once told me that they had to have a 34.5 to score out of LEVEL 3 per USAG) you don't always get answers there. Sometimes you don't have easy access to those that could tell you. Regardless, the whole point is to information share here, and asking here maybe puts the OP in contact with coaches from OTHER gyms that might do something similar and could shed some light.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I think it's clear the OP understands it's the gym's' philosophy, hence the title of the post. And just because you ask questions doesn't mean you're going to get answers at your gym. Trust me. Coming from a gym that had zero clue what the rules even WERE (our gym owner once told me that they had to have a 34.5 to score out of LEVEL 3 per USAG) you don't always get answers there. Sometimes you don't have easy access to those that could tell you. Regardless, the whole point is to information share here, and asking here maybe puts the OP in contact with coaches from OTHER gyms that might do something similar and could shed some light.

Yep totally get all that. Yep sharing info is good. Yep seeing how its done elsewhere good. Great to know all those things.

All this information helps me make informed decisions. It doesn't change how the gym I am at does things.

But the question was why does my gym do it this way. Only way to know that is to find out the why of the specific gym.

And in the end does it matter. I now know there are gyms that score kids out. That will not help me at my current gym which doesn't. My gym doesn't. My choice is to be OK with that or not and leave for a gym that does. Knowing that other gym do something else will not change how my gym does it.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Most of the girls in my daughters gym who are in Xcel are there by choice - didn't want the long hours and/or intense conditioning of USAG, or started later and have unbalanced skills - for instance 11-12 year olds who came from dance or cheer and have back tucks on floor but can't do a kip yet so they do XCel gold so they can do a kip-less bar routine but still use their top skills on floor.

We allow movement between the two tracks, and if a kid from XCel shows the ability to be reasonably successful in JO, and that is what the kid wants, they will be moved. It saddens me to hear that so many gyms won't give kids the opportunity to do this if they are ready - I can understand not wanting to have teenagers in level 3, but if they work hard in XCel and turn themselves into a gymnast who can be a competitive optional after a few years, why not give them a shot at JO? Some of the best gymnasts I've known over the years are ones that got a late start.

 

[duyetanh]

Our gym interchanges. Girls can do what they want, obviously with coach approval in terms of moving from xcel to j.o....but if someone voluntarily wants to move from j.o. to xcel, it is fine.

 

[momof2gymmies]

I wonder if some part of it is just stretching it out. Your gym cuts girls off from JO so young that they have a lot of years in the sport to only compete five levels. By holding to the two year per level rules, they won't have girls in diamond with 4-5-6 years to go and nowhere to move up. Just a thought.

That would actually make a lot of sense. If DD follows the 2 years per level rule, she would be hitting diamond as a 15 year old, so would still have 3 years to compete as a diamond if she competes all the way through high school. I never looked at it that way. I keep hearing from DD's coaches (little DD) oh she is so young. She was actually young enough for JO, but we said no b/c of older DD, and b/c her personality is not suited to that many hours. They would like her on JO and wanted to move her from bronze to L4 this year, but again we said no. If she sticks with the 2 years at each level she will be a diamond by the time she is 13. Our diamonds compete some amazing routines, so at least she will have something to strive for.

Most gyms doing Xcel I have seen who want to blow everyone away compete the minimum (or close to it) very well, while a fair number of others throw harder things knowing they have a few deductions but they want the kids to get that experience.

I think that is what confuses me the most. Our girls do score well. Very well. DD's silver team took first at every meet this past year, and the girls were usually in the top 3 in every age group. And don't get me wrong - DD is going to rock her beam routine next season after being forced to keep her full turn in, b/c now she has it down cold and it is beautiful.

That is something to ask the coach/owner.

The only way to know why a gym/coach/owner does things a certain way is to ask them.

I would love to ask our coaches but there is no way that is going to happen. While I love them and think that they are fantastic coaches, communication is not really a strong point at our gym . And honestly, it doesn't really change anything. We are not changing gyms. I am happy with our gym. It is just plain curiosity as to why the coaches would push but not move up in the levels. I think MIL makes a good point about the number of years they are in xcel with only 5 levels to get through.

 

[gymdog]

I wonder if some part of it is just stretching it out. Your gym cuts girls off from JO so young that they have a lot of years in the sport to only compete five levels. By holding to the two year per level rules, they won't have girls in diamond with 4-5-6 years to go and nowhere to move up. Just a thought.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head here if they are doing Gold routines in silver and scoring 9.7+. There are only 5 levels in Xcel. I also sometimes see this with level 1, 2, and 3. If the gym doesn't go past level 7, that is where kids tend to quit, it might take her longer by competing level 1 and 2, without her feeling like she is repeating. I don't know if gyms (and I've seen this in a few particular states where there isn't much gymnastics above level 8 but they have tons of level 1s and 2s competing) even do this consciously, I think it just kind of develops this way.