WAG Main purpose for xcel?

[Mom2monkeys]

Our coach was looking into xcel. She thought we could switch from Jo to xcel to fast track and then come back out on level 8. Then she was told you have to compete both? JO for that season and xcel for optional season. Is this right? Can anyone help me understand the difference between the two, pros vs cons, can you fast track this way? Thanks so much!!

 

[MILgymFAM]

They are two completely separate tracks, but there is some overlap. Some gyms use xcel in place of compulsories, but I wouldn't say it's completely common. Even gyms that use xcel in place of compulsory levels still have to have their girls score out of levels four and five- then they can go on to seven. The only exception to having to compete in a score out meet is if an athlete is at least fourteen and in high school, and then the coach can attempt to petition them directly into optionals. I have never heard of anyone going straight to eight, and don't believe it's possible, although I could be wrong.

ETA: You don't have to compete them both in the same year. This is not the stated purpose of xcel, to advance Jo gymnasts.

 

[Mom2monkeys]

Thank you! I meant come out on 7 not 8, my error

 

[MeetDirector]

The purpose of Xcel, plain and simple, is to keep kids in the gym that would normally quit as the compulsory an optional skills get harder. Some clubs have chisen to use Xcel to "bypass" the early compulsory levels. Here is the bottom line: if a gymnast has the passion and desire to get to the upper optional levels and beyond (college), they have to go through the JO levels, period. In the JO system, each level, starting with Lvl 4, must be competed and scored out of. That means at least one sanctioned meet at each level, period. You cannot go into Xcel and "pop out" at an optional level without first scoring out of levels 4 & 5.

 

[Mom2monkeys]

Thank you so much. I have a much better understanding

 

[Ruth]

A lot of gyms train Jo with much higher amount of hours. For example 20 hours in JO vs 6 hours in xcel. Roughly. You also need to consider amount of hours. Hours need for conditioning, polishing skills and learning new ones. Xcel was also designed for those who doesn't want to do so many hours like JO in higher levels. But then again if all you do is Xcel with lower hours I think it will be hard to compete level 7 or 8 with same quality as JO girls who went through JO. But again I am not sure how many hours you have for Xcel training in your area. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Gymnasts Mom]

I thought xcel was originally designed for girls who loved gymnastics and wanted more competitive than rec but for whatever reason could not or did not want to do JO. That is how our gym sold/sells it. Our xcel gold practices 10.5 hours a week during the summer. Our gym does not mix JO and xcel. Kids do one or the other. Girls are pushed towards xcel if the cannot get the skills for JO but even in xcel they are not moved to the next level until they have the skill set necessary to learn the routines. I now see Gyms using xcel to push their JO kids faster because they don't like doing the compulsory routines. I personally think that is a misuse of the intention of the program but obviously not against the rules. Sad for girls who would not make the JO team but have to compete against JO girls at xcel meets.

 

[sce]

Our coach was looking into xcel. She thought we could switch from Jo to xcel to fast track and then come back out on level 8. Then she was told you have to compete both? JO for that season and xcel for optional season. Is this right? Can anyone help me understand the difference between the two, pros vs cons, can you fast track this way? Thanks so much!!

One thing I know it was not intended as a fast track. it was intended as a less rigorous option to keep girls in the sport. It's supposed to be less hours, provides more flexibility in skill requirements etc.

 

[Ruth]

Xcel doesn't compete against JO. They compete against other Xcel girls. Jo againts Jo and Xcel against Xcel. If Xcel girls switches to Jo then I think Jo girls who did not have Xcel past would probably be better because of more hours trained (more conditioning and more polished skills). Xcel gold is probably level 5 and up in JO. I think on verge it's 16-20 hours a week in JO.

 

[Gymnasts Mom]

JO girls can and do compete in xcel meets as long as it is not the same season. For example JO compete as JO in fall but compete xcel meets in Spring. Different season. I thought Xcel was designed for girls who could not or chose not to compete JO. There are lots of girls who never compete JO so ever though they are good Xcel gymnasts they are not JO level.

 

[raenndrops]

Xcel doesn't compete against JO. They compete against other Xcel girls. Jo againts Jo and Xcel against Xcel. If Xcel girls switches to Jo then I think Jo girls who did not have Xcel past would probably be better because of more hours trained (more conditioning and more polished skills). Xcel gold is probably level 5 and up in JO. I think on verge it's 16-20 hours a week in JO.

At some gyms, Xcel and JO girls practice and condition the same number of hours, therefore, the polish is the same. What the person talking about Xcel competing against JO meant was that girls coming from JO (just to fast track) competing in Xcel Divisions might put the Xcel only girls at a disadvantage (but anyone who practices fewer hours and does less conditioning whether JO or Xcel or both would be at a disadvantage).
I personally have no problem with girls competing both as long as they are placed properly in the Xcel divisions... and are done with Xcel once they hit JO Optionals.
However, I do not see it as a way to "fast track" because you have to be 7 years old to compete Gold. This is the same age you have to be to compete L4, L5, L6, and L7.
If you want to "fast track" a girl, she would really need to be able to compete Platinum (No giants allowed in Gold), which isn't allowed until 8 years old.
It would be easier to have the gymnasts train and score out of L4 and L5 in a meet (or 2) and go right into L6 or L7.
Using Xcel for JO gymnasts would be best suited for girls that have uneven skill sets on different events and have one event holding them back from moving up. They can use their more advanced skills (within the skill limits) on their "good" events and compete what they have on their "bad" event while working on the problem skill or skills.
It is also good for an older gymnast that wants to do her own routines (in this case, it could also be used as a legitimate fast track, though most gyms won't do this ). If a gymnast started at age 12 - 13 and really wanted to get to JO Optionals, they could start out in Xcel Silver (assuming they had at least minimum Silver skills by the start of competition season). The floor music max length is the same for Silver and Gold. As the gymnast progresses and gets upgraded skills competition ready, she could put them in. She could seamlessly move to Gold when all of her routines were at least minimum Gold skills. Continue upgrading as the skills are ready and transition to Platinum when the "worst" event is minimum Platinum skill ready. Then upgrade until each event has at least 2 B skills.
By that time, the girl should be 14 and/or a freshman in high school. She can be petitioned into L6 or L7 without having to worry about learning the L4 and L5 routines to compete even once.

 

[Gymnasts Mom]

But was that the intent for creating Xcel?
JO girls who compete both have their meets, state and regionals to score and earn medals plus then they can compete Xcel. Xcel girls cannot do both. Main reason they are in Xcel is because they did not qualify for JO. I thought Xcel was created as a way for girls to continue to do gymnastics even if they don't make the JO team. Lots of girls left because they were not able to make JO but wanted more than once a week rec.
if Excel is a training camp for JO optionals then it is what it is.

 

[twinmomma]

But was that the intent for creating Xcel?
JO girls who compete both have their meets, state and regionals to score and earn medals plus then they can compete Xcel. Xcel girls cannot do both. Main reason they are in Xcel is because they did not qualify for JO. I thought Xcel was created as a way for girls to continue to do gymnastics even if they don't make the JO team. Lots of girls left because they were not able to make JO but wanted more than once a week rec.
if Excel is a training camp for JO optionals then it is what it is.

No, that was never the intent. But until USAG does something to stop it, and I'm not sure how they really would, it's going to get used this way in places. I will say it doesn't seem to be how it gets used around here. It really is the girls who either can't or won't do the JO hours or skills. Our old gym wanted to use Xcel Bronze as a "pre-team" option, rather than competing Level 2. Eh. Ok. I guess that's what it sort of ended up being for DD, but we had no idea she would make the switch. It just worked out that way - that wasn't the intent.

 

[raenndrops]

But was that the intent for creating Xcel?
JO girls who compete both have their meets, state and regionals to score and earn medals plus then they can compete Xcel. Xcel girls cannot do both. Main reason they are in Xcel is because they did not qualify for JO. I thought Xcel was created as a way for girls to continue to do gymnastics even if they don't make the JO team. Lots of girls left because they were not able to make JO but wanted more than once a week rec.
if Excel is a training camp for JO optionals then it is what it is.

"Main reason they are in Xcel is because they did not qualify for JO. I thought Xcel was created as a way for girls to continue to do gymnastics even if they don't make the JO team." Both of my gymmies qualified for JO. Both competed JO. Both chose to move to Xcel... with the same number of hours they were doing for JO.
OG made the switch because of PTSD.
YG made the switch because of ADHD and boredom.

According to USAG, "The Xcel Program is designed to offer a broad-based, affordable competitive experience outside the traditional Jr. Olympic Program to attract and retain a diverse group of athletes."
This means that it is for girls who:
1) Have never competed JO and want to compete Optional routines.
2) Want to compete, but don't have the kind of money it takes to compete JO.
3) Used to compete JO, but for one reason or another have chosen to leave the rigors (and hours and higher costs) of JO.
4) Still compete JO, but are in compulsories and want the opportunity to do Optional routines with their current skill set in the JO off season. (Many states compete Compulsories in the Fall and Optionals in the Spring... so they can compete both JO and Xcel in separate seasons and this retains the gymnast that might otherwise get bored).

 

[profmom]

Also, in our area, JO isn't compatible with high school gymnastics for girls, but XCel is. From what I have seen around here, XCel incorporates a big range of girls doing it for a lot of different reasons, but DD's gym does not use the two programs interchangeably, nor do girls compete in both streams. Very occasionally, a high performing XCel gymnast who wants the intensity and commitment of JO will switch over at around L5. To date, I haven't seen anyone go from DD's upper level JO team to XCel, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that start to happen in the next few years. (Right now, our upper level optionals really only tend to leave JO when they get serious or recurring injuries, when they move away from the area, and when they graduate.)

 

[Deleted member 18037]

But was that the intent for creating Xcel?
JO girls who compete both have their meets, state and regionals to score and earn medals plus then they can compete Xcel. Xcel girls cannot do both. Main reason they are in Xcel is because they did not qualify for JO. I thought Xcel was created as a way for girls to continue to do gymnastics even if they don't make the JO team. Lots of girls left because they were not able to make JO but wanted more than once a week rec.
if Excel is a training camp for JO optionals then it is what it is.

The intent was revenue. Keep kids who parents would stop paying or couldn't afford to pay so much in the sport.

 

[twinmomma]

The intent was revenue. Keep kids who parents would stop paying or couldn't afford to pay so much in the sport.

Other than the added revenue of USAG membership fees ($54 whoopdeedo) I highly doubt this was USAG's intent. Gyms make a LOT more money of rec kids than they do off the team kids. Sure team kids pay a lot more, but their coaches make more and the per hour rate tends to actually be less than what the rec kids end up paying.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

But was that the intent for creating Xcel?
JO girls who compete both have their meets, state and regionals to score and earn medals plus then they can compete Xcel. Xcel girls cannot do both. Main reason they are in Xcel is because they did not qualify for JO. I thought Xcel was created as a way for girls to continue to do gymnastics even if they don't make the JO team. Lots of girls left because they were not able to make JO but wanted more than once a week rec.
if Excel is a training camp for JO optionals then it is what it is.

Xcel girls can do both if they meet the skills required, the minimum age and score out they can do both. There is absolutely no USAG rule that they can't beyond going to multiple state meets in the same season.

What a gym requires for Xcel vs JO, is not necessarily what USAG requires.
What a gym requires for hours training is not necessarily a USAG requirement.

So you have gyms that say if you are older then 6 for L3 you can't do JO, that is a gym rule, not USAG
Gym says you need to do 16 hours for JO L4, but 12 hours for Xcel Silver, again a gym rule.

Our gym, our girls do both. Coach like the basics of JO compulsories and the flexibility for the girls to express themselves in Xcel. The training hours are the same at our gym.

Our girls train less JO hours then many gyms in our area. More Xcel hours then some gyms, but less then others.

So for example. The 2 nearest gyms that score comparable to us at meets do JO and Xcel but track them separate. Both gyms require more hours JO then our gym, but their Xcel teams train less hours at their gyms, then their gyms JO hours. But they train pretty much the same Xcel hours as our JO/Xcel girls. One the same, one slightly less then us.

 

[Gymnasts Mom]

Then maybe they should have lower JO optionals in the spring instead of having JO kids compete against Xcel kids. I still see most level 4 girls at a higher level than Xcel gold and again that means Xcel really isn't for less skilled gymnasts who still want to compete but would never place on a JO team. The Xcel girls try hard and want to win too but when competing against girls who just finished their JO season it is hard.
I wish it was at least by calendar year or something where a girl who could do both could choose one per year not JO winter and Xcel spring. One state and one regional not both.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Other than the added revenue of USAG membership fees ($54 whoopdeedo) I highly doubt this was USAG's intent. Gyms make a LOT more money of rec kids than they do off the team kids. Sure team kids pay a lot more, but their coaches make more and the per hour rate tends to actually be less than what the rec kids end up paying.

Well then we will agree to disagree.

It was absolutely about revenue. Kids who want to compete but don't want to put in the hours, who would otherwise quit... Revenue.
Kids who used to compete IGC, now meet funds go to USAG, Revenue.
Parents who pay money and want to see Sally or Joey win a medal for their bucks. Revenue.
More kids in the gym because JO too much, rec to little, Revenue.

Its for profit. They didn't do it just to be nice.