WAG interesting development with JO/XCel

[profmom]

I recently ran across a policy just adopted by Region 6 which is relevant to our earlier discussions of the intent of XCel and the ethics of cross-stream competition:

XCEL REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ELIGIBILITY

In the spirit of good sportsmanship, fairness to all athletes and competitive balance an athlete is not eligible to participate in the Regional Championships if they have competed in the J.O. State or Regional Championships in the same competitive year.

 

[IreneKa]

Yay, Region 6!

 

[UnoMas]

Love it. It would be good if all regions would do this, too!!!!

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Yup! This is very fair.

 

[Becauseisaid]

Interesting. I wonder if other regions will follow with this rule? I know in Middle TN a lot of gyms will have their girls compete JO compulsaries in the fall and Excel in the spring. I wonder if they count that as the same competitive year.

 

[Firefly]

Good.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

That sounds right and fair.

 

[sce]

Love that, it allows for the Xcel girls to truly have their moment.

 

[raenndrops]

I recently ran across a policy just adopted by Region 6 which is relevant to our earlier discussions of the intent of XCel and the ethics of cross-stream competition:

XCEL REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ELIGIBILITY

In the spirit of good sportsmanship, fairness to all athletes and competitive balance an athlete is not eligible to participate in the Regional Championships if they have competed in the J.O. State or Regional Championships in the same competitive year.

Love this, but too bad they are limiting it to JO State or Regionals... It might just mean that gyms that compete both in the same season will forego JO State and compete Xcel State (that is how you get to Regionals anyways).
My question would be what about NY Early States? What if they compete JO at Early States but compete Xcel at Up State or Down State or whatever they call them?

Please tell me where you got the info, so I can ask them!!!!!!!

 

[profmom]

Region 6 web page.

Aren't those early state meets in January or something like that? It would seem that whatever "competitive year" means, it means you can't do JO states in the early winter of the same calendar year that you intend to do XCel states. I would interpret a competitive year to run from fall meets through JO nationals and any state meets that happen after JO Nationals -- so like an academic year -- but I could be misinterpreting the meaning. There may be some Region 6 insiders around who can explain.

 

[raenndrops]

I am thinking the same thing. Early States are in Feb for L2-L6. Xcel State is in March... L2-L4 Upstate and Downstates are in May and L5+ States are March - May.

So... all a team has to do is not compete Early States and they can still do JO and Xcel and compete Xcel State and go on to Xcel Regionals. ... So, not as big a deal as it seems. I think they should say if you compete a JO meet after you have competed an Xcel meet in the same competitive year... or if you have competed more than 2 JO meets or something like that

 

[Becauseisaid]

Aren't those early state meets in January or something like that? It would seem that whatever "competitive year" means, it means you can't do JO states in the early winter of the same calendar year that you intend to do XCel states. I would interpret a competitive year to run from fall meets through JO nationals and any state meets that happen after JO Nationals -- so like an academic year -- but I could be misinterpreting the meaning.

It was my understanding from DD's HC that a competitive year is Fall through Spring. At least in TN since I won't presume to speak for other states/regions. Which is why my DD can go to the JO state meet at L4 in March and potentially compete the Dec JO state meet when repeating L4. (I think I just answered my own question.)
I guess the question then becomes - which is more important to you as a coach? JO States or Xcel Regionals?

 

[raenndrops]

It was my understanding from DD's HC that a competitive year is Fall through Spring. At least in TN since I won't presume to speak for other states/regions. Which is why my DD can go to the JO state meet at L4 in March and potentially compete the Dec JO state meet when repeating L4. (I think I just answered my own question.)
I guess the question then becomes - which is more important to you as a coach? JO States or Xcel Regionals?

And to get to Xcel Regionals, they have to compete at Xcel States...

USAG says that a gymnast can compete in 1 State meet per SEASON and 2 per competitive year (Fall / Spring)... some states only have one season that runs year long (Aug 1-July 31 technically). Others have 2 seasons (Fall and Spring)... usually those states do Fall Compulsories and Spring (winter) Optionals - including Xcel. And New York has one long season, but offers an Early States option for L2-L6.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

Im totally Canadian so not in the loop, but to me it would make sense that an athlete should be either Excel or JO. I don't know why you would want your child in more than one stream unless it was to compete "down" to be a ringer.

Or they could make a true assessment and comparison of the two different streams and specify that if you are level x at JO you must be at least the top level of Excel.

 

[Natasha]

USAG's year runs from Aug to July (based on registration and fee) so it would make sense that the "competitive year" would be the same time frame. Now if they said "competitive season" a case could be made for fall/spring season and they could do both…

 

[raenndrops]

Im totally Canadian so not in the loop, but to me it would make sense that an athlete should be either Excel or JO. I don't know why you would want your child in more than one stream unless it was to compete "down" to be a ringer.

Or they could make a true assessment and comparison of the two different streams and specify that if you are level x at JO you must be at least the top level of Excel.

There is a chart that says if you competed JO Level 3, you can compete Xcel Silver or Xcel Gold. And it breaks it down for up to L9... but that is mostly for girls who make the switch PERMANENTLY.
Some gyms use Xcel in place of Compulsories... which I have no problem with. They AREN'T also competing JO. But there are gyms that have gymnasts compete both JO and Xcel.
My take on the last part: If you are in a state where JO Compulsories are in the Fall and Optionals and Xcel are in the Winter, I have no problem with those who were L1-L4 competing Xcel in the winter... as long as they are placed correctly. It keeps the girls interested and allows them to do Optional routines. If you competed L5, there is no reason to compete Xcel because you can compete L6 if you want Optional experience.

Other gyms compete both JO and Xcel in the same season and / or allow their JO Optionals to compete Xcel. This is where I have a huge problem with it. There is no reason to have a L9 also competing Xcel, even if it is Diamond. And this would be one of the possible situations where the coach could just determine that at L9 State, the girl wouldn't do well enough to move on, so have her compete Xcel States instead and then onto Xcel Regionals. So you would have a Level 9 potentially competing against girls who ONLY compete Xcel Diamond... the JO to Xcel Chart says Diamond is for L7, L8, or L9. And the requirements are roughly L7 with L8 vault options at higher start values than in L8.

 

[gymdog]

And to get to Xcel Regionals, they have to compete at Xcel States...

USAG says that a gymnast can compete in 1 State meet per SEASON and 2 per competitive year (Fall / Spring)... some states only have one season that runs year long (Aug 1-July 31 technically). Others have 2 seasons (Fall and Spring)... usually those states do Fall Compulsories and Spring (winter) Optionals - including Xcel. And New York has one long season, but offers an Early States option for L2-L6.

I was going to say this is already the case in some places. In my state, it has never been possible to compete in championship meets for Xcel and JO. You can only compete in one state meet, and we only have them once a year. Sometimes someone might not qualify for level 5 states but then do Gold/Platinum at a couple meets because Xcel states is later. That's just an example of the levels. I'm okay with that.

 

[sce]

I am thinking the same thing. Early States are in Feb for L2-L6. Xcel State is in March... L2-L4 Upstate and Downstates are in May and L5+ States are March - May.

So... all a team has to do is not compete Early States and they can still do JO and Xcel and compete Xcel State and go on to Xcel Regionals. ... So, not as big a deal as it seems. I think they should say if you compete a JO meet after you have competed an Xcel meet in the same competitive year... or if you have competed more than 2 JO meets or something like that

Looking at the region 6 website, Xcel regionals are May 21-22. And looking at the the NY USAG site all the compulsory state meets in New York are either that weekend or earlier. So this can be enforced, even with NY having one long season.

 

[raenndrops]

Looking at the region 6 website, Xcel regionals are May 21-22. And looking at the the NY USAGte all the compulsory state meets in New York are either that weekend or earlier. So this can be enforced, even with NY having one long season.

But New York also has Early States... which they can compete at then still compete Xcel State. If they compete Early States (L2-L6) they would be prevented from competing Xcel Regionals. That's a good thing.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

There is a chart that says if you competed JO Level 3, you can compete Xcel Silver or Xcel Gold. And it breaks it down for up to L9... but that is mostly for girls who make the switch PERMANENTLY.
Some gyms use Xcel in place of Compulsories... which I have no problem with. They AREN'T also competing JO. But there are gyms that have gymnasts compete both JO and Xcel.
My take on the last part: If you are in a state where JO Compulsories are in the Fall and Optionals and Xcel are in the Winter, I have no problem with those who were L1-L4 competing Xcel in the winter... as long as they are placed correctly. It keeps the girls interested and allows them to do Optional routines. If you competed L5, there is no reason to compete Xcel because you can compete L6 if you want Optional experience.

Other gyms compete both JO and Xcel in the same season and / or allow their JO Optionals to compete Xcel. This is where I have a huge problem with it. There is no reason to have a L9 also competing Xcel, even if it is Diamond. And this would be one of the possible situations where the coach could just determine that at L9 State, the girl wouldn't do well enough to move on, so have her compete Xcel States instead and then onto Xcel Regionals. So you would have a Level 9 potentially competing against girls who ONLY compete Xcel Diamond... the JO to Xcel Chart says Diamond is for L7, L8, or L9. And the requirements are roughly L7 with L8 vault options at higher start values than in L8.

Um wow! I have no idea how to follow this and am just thankful i am not in this system!