Off Topic Off Topic - Competitive Dance

[curlymomof3]

I should also add that after reading on Chalkbucket about how "easy" it is for former gymnasts to transition to other sports after quitting, I almost expected them to be fussing over Dd because she was a gymnast and request her for the dance team Dd tried out some cheer places before dance and this was our experience, but mostly due to her tumbling skills. However, I have learned that it takes more that flexibility and strength to be successful in dance. As Aussie_coach said, so many of these girls have been dancing for years and have worked their way to the top. And I also feel like dancers, unfortunately, are judged more on body type and looks than gymnasts. In gymnastics, you either have the skills or you don't. You don't move up without them. I feel like there is a little more "favorites" played in the dance world and looks can play a big role in that. But we are still willing to give it a try. Oh, and all the constant drilling on pointing your toes in gymnastics definitely helps in dance too!!

 

[COz]

She wants to salute after every move, haha

Oh I so want to see this!

 

[Midwestmommy]

If she has not had a lot of dance there is little chance she will make it into the top group for her age at a large top dance studio - these kids will have been working on leaps, turns, dance technique for years. I don't see very many gymnasts at my daughter's meets with good dance lines and performance/musical interpretation. Way less than ten percent.
With that said many studios have different comp groups by age grouping, sort of like excel bronze and Level 10 both have 13 year olds.

In a smaller studio she may even have a chance at being in a smaller group with similar leveled dancers versus just a large group.

Things to look out for - ask lots of questions..

Studios who don't offer much technique - someone starting older needs lots of technique.

Some studios will take your money and put them in a large jazz group of say 20 kids, and let the choreographers design dances featuring their favs where your daughter could literally spend much of the dance offstage and much of rehearsal sitting on her rear watching those five
dance and do their choreography. It's really expensive to for for your kid to sit on her rear.

Some genres get extra points if a certain number of girls in a dance do acro moves such as handsprings. These aren't tumbling floors, so decide going in what she is willing to say yes to for acro. Some do have beautiful acro, others are cringeworthy.

Beware of a dance studio that requires tons of comp dances in big groups $$$$$$

In my opinion - a studio that offers unlimited technique passes and will let her compete only say 3 dances her first year is a good sign.

Just know that the competitions are money makers for the companies that run them, and cram in dances 7am to 10pm. Dance competitions require first and foremost a good sense of humor. If you find crazy people and diva little girls entertaining in their wackiness it will help, otherwise you will find them seriously annoying.

If your daughter doesn't make the group that goes to "nationals" her first year, be happy - they are at crazy expensive hotels. Dance nationals is just big competitions run by the various companies that run regional comps - not in any way "national" comps in the sense of Level 10 gymnastics.

Don't overlook hip hop, it's not required at most studios. However, many kids absolutely love it and have a blast. And she may catch up quicker in hip hop, since it's so different than ballet, jazz, lyrical.

 

[OzZee]

Not in the US but imagine similar.
Like you have in gymnastics there are many streams , levels of commitment and hours and types of studios.
So you need to think of what she wants out of dance and what she's prepared to do (time and skills).
Dance can range from
A class or 2 at a recreational level, often an end of year concert, exercise.

A rec competition studio - basic team requiring 1 technique class, genre dance class and performance class. Usually lighter load of competitions.

More professional competition dance studio with several classes and styles required. Ranging with regards number/quality of technique classes.

Pre professional dance studio. Requiring several hours of ballet technique (depending on level but from 2-15 ish) plus other genres (if not just a classical school) and performance classes.

Classical studio - lots of hours, lots of technique classes, plus contemporary, performance etc.

So what she wants to do will decide the studio a lot.

Also any dance school that jumps at taking a former gymnast straight onto a team is probably wanting her Acro skills.
If she has back issues this is something to consider.

Whilst yes lots will have been doing dance for many hours from young, gymnastics provides girls with a great grounding - flexibility, strength, core, hopefully some musicality as well as leaps and Acro skills.
Also being older girls pick things up quicker . Like going the opp way a good dancer can often join and in a year catch up to a level 3 type gym level that would take a younger non conditioned child much longer.

Also depends on dance style - as mentioned before hip hop for instance is often easier to pick up and I know lots of gymnasts do really well. Lots of ex gymnasts I know doing great in jazz/Acro troupes.
Classical takes a lot more work (and being stuck with younger kids whilst catching up).

The conditioning, strength and flexibility of gymnasts makes it much easier for them to pick up pretty much any sport.

 

[IreneKa]

Thank you, everyone! This thread has been very informative and helpful.
I hope I didn't give you all an impression that I expect her to walk into the studio and be invited to team the next day. I know many girls have been doing this since they were 2-3 years old. That's why I started this thread in the first place, thinking maybe it's too late for her to start now. I know she would need to take a lot of technique classes before even considering auditioning for team. But coming out of 20 hrs/week of gymnastics training, both she and I are okay with taking 4-5 dance classes a week, or more, if needed.

FWIW, she did go to a trial jazz class last week, and she did great. To my untrained (and possibly biased) eye, she looked better than most girls there. And the instructor also commented afterwards that DD did great, and asked me what kind of training she had before, because she didn't look like she was starting from scratch.

This is just a local, more recreational studio. They have a "performance company", but they don't compete. I think this would be okay for now, to just get some exposure to dance, to see if she even likes it. We are committed to the Xcel team for this season anyways, so we are not making any major decisions until the season is over.

 

[OzZee]

Sounds like a good fit whilst she is still competing but to consider for next year.
Are there a range of class levels?
If she has gone into a class and in the first lesson is looking like one of the best then the standard of the class may not be that high. It may be that this is the beginner type class (dance class are often done by age) . Or is it the only class at her age group.
She may just want to continue to dance for pleasure and be happy with this group or may want somewhere she can progress more.
Hope that makes sense?

The thing with dance is there are just so many more options/streams/quality than there are in gym so finding the right fit is so important (said from the mum who has girls in more than one studio).

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Following and will add reply later, my older Dd was at a ballet pre-pro for years and switched to competitive dance fairly recently.

 

[COz]

I'd be interested in knowing what pre-pro means in terms of ballet in the US too.
Here we have full-time or part-time programs that mean the kids stop attending normal school programs and do ballet all day instead with the intention of getting into a professional company or international school. Is this the same?

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

There's not really a set definition. Some would say a residential school, pretty much. Others (including me) would use the term to describe a serious ballet studio following certain guidelines regarding training (hours etc) in preparation for a professional career, most of the time with a student company attached, and who has dancers go on to professional careers following their years at the studio. Not all obviously, but regularly produces employable ballet dancers.
Soooo.... Gymnasts excelling at dance. It can happen. But it's certainly not a given. So many variables. Only in my own little world, we have now been part of two dance studios, one a serious ballet school and the other a nicely rounded dance studio (still with a good ballet program) with more other genres and which has a competition team.
My DD, now 14, switched over to the competitive dance studio almost 2 yrs ago.
At the ballet studio, we had several gymnasts try ballet for a while and none stayed except for ONE. Super sweet girl, but a ballerina she was not. She just never looked right doing it and her quality of movement was always more powerful than graceful. She did it for many years but eventually quit, I believe she is doing cheer in school now and I *think* she's doing a hip hop class on the side for fun.
As far as actual ballet, there comes a time when the way the muscles need to be developed for gymnastics become a hindrance in ballet.

My own gymmie, who has danced in several genres off and on through the years, is NOT a dancer, lol! She did ballet and hip hop at her sisters studio last year and although she could keep up just fine with the other girls (and actually was a surprisingly good hip hop dancer!!) it was still obvious to anyone watching that she was not a ballerina. Her body/musculature made it difficult for her to obtain the same movements as the other girls who had been doing ballet much longer. However she WAS in much more control of her body than the girls her age just starting out and did much better than the other beginners. There is no way I would expect her to have success on the competition team if she were to want to do that today. Perhaps in another year of dance training, and then her dance parts would likely be heavy on the acro.

Then, we have one girl who used to do gymnastics with my DD and moved over to dance a few years ago, around age 8. She is a gorgeous dancer and got out of gymnastics before getting too specialized, which I think helped her.
Now, it should be said that her "featured" parts all include acro tricks, she's not selected because of her dance qualities but rather for the wow factor of the tricks she can do (usually walk overs, spiders, scorpions etc).
Because she was reasonably young when she switched to dance, I can't really say whether she had an easier time learning dance or not. 8 isn't really a "late" start. Because of gymnastics she was certainly already stronger and more flexible than the average 8yo off the street though.

So I guess the short answer is that you can't expect a gymnast to be at THAT much of an advantage going into dance, but you can and should expect SOME advantage, if only the fact that she is flexible and in control of her body. However, at this age (10-12?) the serious dancers at a studio will likely have had many years of dance training and also be very flexible and in control of their bodies.
I would strongly suggest starting by taking classes for a year and worrying about performance/competition teams later. Get the feel for it first. Let the teachers get to know her and her strengths, let her have at least a year of solid dance training to figure out if she likes it first.
Older Dd, even coming from a high quality dance studio, waited to join the competition team. Her dance teachers WaNtEd her and actively pursued her to join. We have had other dancers who also switched over and joined the competition team right away, one was so overwhelmed that she ended up finishing the year miserably and then quit, another JUSt joined us but she is quite shell shocked at the moment.... I think she will be fine come season though.
In contrast, DD who waited is now one of the most responsible, featured dancers in her team. She was ready and the teachers knew her a bit better beforehand. This is her second year on the team and her teachers have all told her how pleased they are with her progress and how she is handling herself.
Hope all of that made sense!!
Best of luck in whatever she decides to do! Dance is such a fun activity and one that I love being involved in. I would just admonish her to go into it with an open mind and not expect to be given any special advantages because of being in gymnastics as really, the training is quite different.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

And re-reading the original question.... No, not too late. If she's truly interested, have her take classes for a year and then consider join in the competitive team. It's not too late at all, but like someone else said (depending on studio structure) she may not be on the "elite" team. Some studios simply have teams based on age groups and anyone who auditions is accepted, they just work with what they have, some studios are much more selective and have several levels of teams in each age group.
I would find out if there are any competitions/conventions coming up in your area that you could go watch. You wouldn't be able to watch the convention parts but the actual competitions are usually free and could be a great way to see how the local studios stack up, both in skills and standards of behaviour..!

 

[IreneKa]

I'd be interested in knowing what pre-pro means in terms of ballet in the US too.
Here we have full-time or part-time programs that mean the kids stop attending normal school programs and do ballet all day instead with the intention of getting into a professional company or international school. Is this the same?

While researching various studios in my area, I found one that has "accelerated program". It says some of the participants are home-schooled, and others use "distance learning" and "on-side educator". The dance classes start at 1:30 for them.

This studio doesn't compete. I guess this is more like a ballet school? They do have Jazz, Tap, Modern classes, but ballet is required

 

[IreneKa]

And re-reading the original question.... No, not too late. If she's truly interested, have her take classes for a year and then consider join in the competitive team. It's not too late at all, but like someone else said (depending on studio structure) she may not be on the "elite" team. Some studios simply have teams based on age groups and anyone who auditions is accepted, they just work with what they have, some studios are much more selective and have several levels of teams in each age group.
I would find out if there are any competitions/conventions coming up in your area that you could go watch. You wouldn't be able to watch the convention parts but the actual competitions are usually free and could be a great way to see how the local studios stack up, both in skills and standards of behaviour..!

Thank you, @SurpriseGymMom, for such an extended reply!
My plan for now is to have her take one dance class in addition to Xcel training (which is only 5 hrs a week). When the gymnastics season is over, in May/June, we will see how her back is feeling and what she wants to do. If we do decide to switch to dance, then I'm thinking she could try different studios during the summer. I see that a lot of studios have things like one-week camps or drop-in classes during the summer, so that would be a good time to explore different options. Then in September she can start at a studio that she chooses, and take a few classes, like ballet, jazz, modern, hip-hope, or whatever they recommend. And then the following summer she could try auditioning for a team, she will be 12 by then.

 

[txgymfan]

Sounds like you have a good plan in mind. Good luck to your DD.