WAG Crooked back walkover on beam

[rsm]

DD has had an issue for the past few months where she tends to go crooked on the bwo on the high beam and fall off the side of the beam. And not just barely missing her feet, but more like going at a 45 degree angle or more off the beam. She had it fine for a few months before this started happening toward the end of her level 5 season. She's probably 50/50 landing it on the high beam. She can land it perfectly on a floor line, and probably lands a higher percentage on the low beam. She will sometimes go crooked on the low beam, but it's not as bad as the high beam. And she goes crooked more often when she is trying to do her bwo bhs series on the high beam. Her bhs is better than her bwo, so when she lands her bwo, she usually lands her bhs as well. Obviously there's something mental going on here as well. She says she doesn't know what she is doing differently when she goes crooked or straight.

I saw a post on CB where she should try the first part of the bwo, land in a bridge with one leg in the air and hold. The first few tries over the last couple of days, she fell sideways almost instantly on the low beam. Her coach also told her to try kicking over from the bridge position on the low beam, which she seems to do fine once she's in a stable bridge. So she has been practicing both of those on the low beam for a few days and is getting more stable. Not 100% stable as yet. She feels that it is helping, and it's at least getting her confidence back. She said she made all bwo on the low beam, but 6 out of 10 on the high beam. Still a better percentage than usual. Are there any other suggestions of drills or other ideas that she could try to help her with this? It's been a good 9 months of this with the coach trying different things, but if there are any suggestions that she can try at home or bring up with her coach, I'm sure she will jump at it.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Has she considered doing BHS/BHS instead? Kipper hates BWO's on beam and was happy to switch. Just wondering if that is an option.

 

[rsm]

It is an option, but she's not quite ready with the bhs bhs on the high beam due to fear. She had a bad fall just before the summer on bhs bhs and has been afraid to get back on the high beam with it. Coach has not been pushing it and DD prefers to push through the bwo bhs right now than move to bhs bhs.

 

[Deleted member 17723]

What helped me - squeezing my butt and thighs a lot...

Anyways, I would look into trying bhs instead... a good coach should be able to work with fear.

Good luck!

 

[Committed]

It is an option, but she's not quite ready with the bhs bhs on the high beam due to fear. She had a bad fall just before the summer on bhs bhs and has been afraid to get back on the high beam with it. Coach has not been pushing it and DD prefers to push through the bwo bhs right now than move to bhs bhs.

Sounds mental. DD is much better at the BWO when it's a part of a series. For some reason, when she does the BWO alone, it tends to go crooked. Then again, my kid always thinks one skill ahead, not the one at hand (if that makes sense).

What about the HS BHS? Doesn't that work for a series?

 

[beachgirl]

Could she do it backwards? Maybe the BHS and then BWO, that way if part of the problem is anticipating the BHS, she's already done it.

 

[Sasha]

My DD 'had' a fairly solid beam bwo, then went through a phase where she always went crooked and fell. This went on for weeks with nothing coach saying fixing it. Then one day a different coach (optional coach) was teaching and told her she was lifting her leg off too quickly. Bam. Correction made. Problem fixed. No idea what your dd's issue is, but perhaps a private with a different coach for a new perspective if that's an option?

 

[Seeker]

Is it a flexibility issue? If she has grown a lot in the past few months, maybe she needs to catch up to her new height. Can she do it perfectly straight-over-the-top on the floor?

 

[juststartingout]

I would say it's a mental problem rather than physical. My dd had a perfect walkover forever then started doing this. The longer she takes to do the skill the more likely it is to happen, she just starts to overthink it and psych herself out. I think when they start to overthink it they either leave their leg on the beam too long or not long enough and that leads to the problems. Try to get her to go right away so she doesn't have time to think.

 

[rsm]

Is it a flexibility issue? If she has grown a lot in the past few months, maybe she needs to catch up to her new height. Can she do it perfectly straight-over-the-top on the floor?

Yes, she also has tight shoulders and has been growing, so that doesn't help. She can do it fine on the floor where her hands are further apart.

 

[rsm]

Could she do it backwards? Maybe the BHS and then BWO, that way if part of the problem is anticipating the BHS, she's already done it.

I haven't seen anyone at the gym do that. I'd leave it up to the coach to decide what other options she might have. I'm just trying to see if there are other tips for the bwo. Her bhs is much more consistent than her bwo, so that might actually be easier for her to do. Maybe I'll ask her to ask her coach if it is an option.

 

[rsm]

My DD 'had' a fairly solid beam bwo, then went through a phase where she always went crooked and fell. This went on for weeks with nothing coach saying fixing it. Then one day a different coach (optional coach) was teaching and told her she was lifting her leg off too quickly. Bam. Correction made. Problem fixed. No idea what your dd's issue is, but perhaps a private with a different coach for a new perspective if that's an option?

She doesn't want to do a private, especially not with a different coach. She says the drill she is trying is helping her, so we'll see how it goes the next few weeks. Maybe she'll consider it if she's still having problems.

 

[rsm]

I would say it's a mental problem rather than physical. My dd had a perfect walkover forever then started doing this. The longer she takes to do the skill the more likely it is to happen, she just starts to overthink it and psych herself out. I think when they start to overthink it they either leave their leg on the beam too long or not long enough and that leads to the problems. Try to get her to go right away so she doesn't have time to think.

I remember her saying that this helped her earlier in the year. I'll mention it to her again and see if she'll try it.

 

[strawberries]

A couple ideas that may or may not help, having to do w/ weight transfer, arc and alignment. I'm sorry the explanations are ridiculously long.

The first is the process of shifting weight. When you walk, you go from moving your weight forward on one foot until you are practically falling onto he next, and then again, from leaning far backward on the new foot to leaning forward onto the new one. You fall into it a bit. Your steps flow. If the sidewalk suddenly vanished, you would stumble. Now imagine you expect the sidewalk to vanish with each step. You would lean back and dip your toe cautiously forward to check. Your gate would not be smooth, and you would likely sway side to side as you pause mid-stride to check. The same thing can happen with transitioning weight from foot to hands on the backwalkover. When girls are on the floor, they know the floor will catch them, and they fall a bit onto their hands, which keeps the weight transition smooth, like when you fall into your next step. When they get to the high beam, they suddenly think the beam might not catch them (or their sidewalk will vanish), so they lean forward, with their hips far over their foot, doing a back scale all the way until their hands are just above the beam. Then they make the clunky weight transition, almost jumping onto their hands. Obviously this awkward transfer is easier to lose balance.

A second related idea is the arch that is formed from foot to hands while they are all on the beam. It can be long and low (hands and feet far apart), which makes the kick over part more laborious, or it can be tighter, w/ hands and feet closer together, which makes kick over easier and less likely to go sideways. Hip flexor and shoulder flexibility will make the arch smaller. If she can begin her backwalkover with hands back behind her head, armpits out, that immediately shortens the arch. There is sometimes a tendency on beam to keep hands forward when starting, because it makes them feel safer. But it lengthens the arch.

A last idea is that when you lift a leg on the floor, it naturally lifts slightly to the side, toward the hip above it. This works on a floor backwalkover, as the hands will be set wide (shoulder-width) apart in the handstand, and everything stays relatively straight. On beam however, both hands and feet have to slant inward from hips/shoulders to keep center of gravity over beam. If she is lifting her foot toward her hip/shoulder, it will pull her off to the side of the beam. If she can imagine lifting her foot toward her belly button or nose, it will be headed toward the beam. Have her picture three rainbows, one that goes over her from beam in front to beam in back (above nose, belly button), then ones to the left and right that pass over shoulders and hips. Visualize her foot traveling along the center rainbow.

Sorry again that this was so long. Hope something is helpful. Of course defer to her coach if anything conflicts.

 

[Redford]

Hard to tell without seeing the skill. Could be mental and/or because of lack of control and security due to tight shoulders/growth. I have also seen kickover BHS combinations. I'm not even sure she should do that many BWOs if her lower back is compensating too much for her shoulders.
To rule out further physical mistakes: How does she put her hands? Are they completly parallel? Have the coaches put attention to where her hips are pointing to begin with? A lot of gymnast turn out their supporting foot for more stability on beam. If the other leg isn't turned outwards too, the hips are not parallel anymore and the BWO will go crooked.

 

[duyetanh]

A couple ideas that may or may not help, having to do w/ weight transfer, arc and alignment. I'm sorry the explanations are ridiculously long.

The first is the process of shifting weight. When you walk, you go from moving your weight forward on one foot until you are practically falling onto he next, and then again, from leaning far backward on the new foot to leaning forward onto the new one. You fall into it a bit. Your steps flow. If the sidewalk suddenly vanished, you would stumble. Now imagine you expect the sidewalk to vanish with each step. You would lean back and dip your toe cautiously forward to check. Your gate would not be smooth, and you would likely sway side to side as you pause mid-stride to check. The same thing can happen with transitioning weight from foot to hands on the backwalkover. When girls are on the floor, they know the floor will catch them, and they fall a bit onto their hands, which keeps the weight transition smooth, like when you fall into your next step. When they get to the high beam, they suddenly think the beam might not catch them (or their sidewalk will vanish), so they lean forward, with their hips far over their foot, doing a back scale all the way until their hands are just above the beam. Then they make the clunky weight transition, almost jumping onto their hands. Obviously this awkward transfer is easier to lose balance.

A second related idea is the arch that is formed from foot to hands while they are all on the beam. It can be long and low (hands and feet far apart), which makes the kick over part more laborious, or it can be tighter, w/ hands and feet closer together, which makes kick over easier and less likely to go sideways. Hip flexor and shoulder flexibility will make the arch smaller. If she can begin her backwalkover with hands back behind her head, armpits out, that immediately shortens the arch. There is sometimes a tendency on beam to keep hands forward when starting, because it makes them feel safer. But it lengthens the arch.

A last idea is that when you lift a leg on the floor, it naturally lifts slightly to the side, toward the hip above it. This works on a floor backwalkover, as the hands will be set wide (shoulder-width) apart in the handstand, and everything stays relatively straight. On beam however, both hands and feet have to slant inward from hips/shoulders to keep center of gravity over beam. If she is lifting her foot toward her hip/shoulder, it will pull her off to the side of the beam. If she can imagine lifting her foot toward her belly button or nose, it will be headed toward the beam. Have her picture three rainbows, one that goes over her from beam in front to beam in back (above nose, belly button), then ones to the left and right that pass over shoulders and hips. Visualize her foot traveling along the center rainbow.

Sorry again that this was so long. Hope something is helpful. Of course defer to her coach if anything conflicts.

 

[duyetanh]

That was a brilliant post, thanks for sharing.

 

[Aero]

Things I look for on a back walkover on beam:

• Starting in front scale
• Slight turn out of support leg
• Slight turn out of free leg
• Eyes looking at the end of the beam as long as possible
• Hips moving slightly forward during upper body's descent
• Open shoulders and entire back arched, rather than point loading in the lower back
• Free leg is always lifting during the descent of the upper body
  
• Hands are together with thumbs parallel, and eyes on hands
  
• When support foot leaves the beam, turn out must be maintained in both legs
• Arch in the back must be straightened as much as possible when passing through handstand
• Tight lever out of the skill
• Finish in lunge with both feet turned out slightly, arms up, eyes on the end of the beam

Where the eyes are looking, as well as the turn out in the legs (which squares and levels the hips), are both insanely crucial to this skill, especially on beam. Also, continually lifting the leg is essential to the ease of execution and timing of the skill.

Here's Rachelle doing one on floor. It's a perfect example of everything above. I'll try to get one on beam.

 

[roll123]

Great info.!

 

[TheGMom]

Happened/happening to DD. Luckily she ALWAYS falls to the same side, so if she squeezes and twists way more than she thinks she should in the opposite direction she falls, she makes her landing on the beam. No idea if that makes sense. I get a lot of this from DD. Gymnastics changes to much.