Parents Repeating a level after getting a score of 38?????

[cadybearsmommy]

I noticed you are in region 8. I am too! Depending on your state, I bet I could guess the gym in which you are talking about!

Feel free to PM me! =)

 

[ascarter1]

Feel free to PM me! =)

Just sent you a message!

 

[tooootsie]

All kids on our l3 and l4 teams repeated this year. I think it was a great thing for them (common in our area). Both teams have had a great season while still up training new skills. Half of our l3 team has been competing their kip (optional skill) this season. We have l3's that now can do l5 skills, so once they get to that level those skills should be very polished. Per HC most l3 repeaters should not need to repeat l4. ... but 3 years at a level. Wow that seems terrible for the kids competing and the kids competing against them have no chance.

 

[momof2gymmies]

Mine are both repeating xcel levels this year, even though they did well last year. ODD could move to gold - her routines are gold routines, but our gym requires the max at each level, and requires two years at each level. Doesn't matter to be if she is competing silver or gold, b/c either way her routines would be the same and she is still uptraining the same skills. She is actually at a disadvantage - she ends up with more deductions than kids doing the minimum routines b/c there is more to deduct. Could be the same with the other gym - they may have upped their difficulty but stayed silver.

Same holds true for YDD. She could do silver but is doing bronze. Her routines work for either one. Only difference is the vault. For example, for bars she is doing kip, cast, BHC, squat on dismount. It is probably more difficult than some silver routines. Next year, when she is a silver she will add jump to high bar, another kip, and a tap swing dismount.

 

[momof2gymmies]

Shoot - can't edit, but wanted to add that they will be expected to compete the max routines as soon as they move up, so that may be why some xcel kids are repeating.

 

[duyetanh]

While I think it is crazy, every gym has their own philosophy. This said, thank God my child isn't at a gym like this....she is a plugger who keeps foraging forward, but a 38 scorer she isn't. And both she, and I are fine with it.

 

[IreneKa]

Everything is good in moderation. Our gym is on the other end of the spectrum. Almost everyone moves up a level every year, as long as they have most of the skills. Some move up after scoring a maximum of 32-33 the previous season, some move up to 4 without kips, some move up to 5 without BT or flyaway, etc. As a result, the girls score very low, especially at the beginning of the season, and we rarely see our girls at the top of the podium. I think some of the girls could benefit from repeating a level, but that's just not how our gym operates. They prefer to move them through the levels (especially compulsories) as quickly as possible.
Repeating can be good if done for the right reasons. Having multiple girls who scored 38+ repeat a level, doesn't sound like they have the right reason. But moving up the girls knowing they won't score above 33 is also doubtful. There has to be some middle ground.

 

[raenndrops]

At our gym... You repeat if you CHOOSE to repeat (want to do better score or placement-wise... afraid of next level skills... injuries prevented getting the skills for the next level) or the coach will have you repeat (didn't get the minimum score 2x last season, missing more than one skill on multiple events, too young to transition into Xcel- we have an age/ level/ repeat/ scoring requirement to move to Xcel Gold).
If you were regularly scoring 36+ in JO levels, you move up - no question. In Xcel, moving to Platinum requires a kip and a salto on floor and a 33+ at Gold. We have girls in Gold that are competing Back Tucks on floor, but their kips are not competition ready. They still work the kips and if they are ready by Jan 30, they can still move up this season. If not, they will move up next year.
We have girls in Gold for multiple seasons, but they came from JO L3... and some of them didn't have a ROBHS even after repeating L3 (only missing skill was the BHS both seasons of L3).

 

[Sasha]

I know the original question was about Xcel, but on the topic of repeating, I can offer a JO example of different models within a single (very winning) gym...

The main powerhouse gym in our area has a huge team and seems to have at least a few different 'tracks' (info based on who we see them competing at meets, as well as hearing our coaches, who are good friends with their coaches, offer tidbits)...

Track 1: Young hotshots (likely in TOPs). The goal: get them to optionals quickly, less focus on Compulsories, possible elites/ future Div1 kids.

- Either skips L3 or rocks L3 as a talented 6 year old. Rocks L4 as a 7 year old scoring 37+ (38s are more rare here) with the higher hours of TOPs contributing solid strength elements like better handstands. Repeats L4 at least once, maybe twice, until they can compete L7 or possibly L8 (skips 5 and 6). Doesn't always win L4 meets (because they are focusing more on up-training) but usually Top 3 in younger age groups. Begin L7/8 as an 8-9 year old.

Track 2: The solid podium sweepers: The goal: Win team trophies and AAs for the gym. Too old/not right for Tops/elite, lets perfect Compulsories and sweep as many podiums as we can.

- Rocks L3 as a 7-8 year old, possibly repeats L3 to perfect performance minutia and perfect L4 (before competing it). Sweeps podiums at L4 as a 8-10 year old, and often repeats L4 (winning all) until L5 routines are flawless. Then sweeps podiums at L5 as a 10-11 year old. Begins L6 around age 11-13 and likely does well in optionals.

Track 3: Older slow and steadies: The goal: Contribute to team scores with one/two solid apparatus, and move steadily through the levels. Older girls often have strengths/maturity in performance than can pull out that 9.8 on, say, floor or vault, even if beam, for example, is not as stellar.

- L4 at age 9-13, repeating is more individualistic depending on age and event scoring. Won't skip any levels. Usually start L6 at age 13+ and probably tops out at L8/9.

Our gym, in comparison, is a more slow-and-steady-for-all type gym with a lot of individual consideration on repeating/moving up. No elites, and no "repeating is standard" practices, but must have solid skills before competing a level. Trade-offs to every model, of course.

 

[cbifoja]

DD's gym isn't a powerhouse gym but they have a solid program with a dedication to the well-being of the gymnast. While titles and banners are nice, I don't feel like they drive the decisions of our coaching staff.

If there is a gymnast who is scoring below 34s, then yes, she is likely to repeat. This isn't very common. Our coaches don't tend to bring kids onto the team unless they feel they can be at least moderately successful.

Our gymnasts who score 35-37s typically move up one level per year. We always have event and all around winners at invitationals and state meet, but our teams aren't able to beat the two powerhouse gyms who have stringent move up requirements. We have a girl who is repeating L4 after getting a 37.5 and honestly, I don't think that is fair. She could move up to L6 and be competitive but she is having some sort of emotional issue so the unusual decision was made for her to repeat. However, it is by far, NOT the norm at our gym. But I wish a different decision had been made because I don't think it's fair that she's going to easily medal across the events but she's not having to work extra hard to do so. It makes me a little sad for girls who are working hard.

We don't tend to have gymnasts score 38s. In our gym, if you have enough talent to score that high, you're skipping levels and getting somewhere that you're in the 35-37 range. Sometimes, other girls get to skip levels for various reasons, but it's not common.

I agree with the poster who said everything in moderation. I know that our gym fits my DD's personality and ambition. Like others have said, she would still be in L3 if she had to score a 37 to move on. She would have long ago gotten bored and left the sport. She doesn't care about medals. She enjoys skill acquisition and getting better. So our gym is a great fit to allow her to do that.

 

[Greyhound]

I have seen this play out both ways. As mentioned in this thread, a gymnast might not get required skills to move to the next level and then will repeat even with a 38 AA, but with that said, if a gymnast is good enough to get a 38 they are typically strong enough to get their skills and move to the next level. I have seen gyms sandbag all of the time. They want to have the top scoring gymnasts and team. Personally, it gets my goat when girls should be moved up and other girls don't have the opportunity to place. On the flipside, sometimes coaches also know that the 38 at L8 might only be a 35 at best as a new L9 especially with repeat L9s in the meet. Sometimes they would rather have the gymnast repeat the level rather than score lower and lose confidence. Our gym moves the girls if they have the skills for the next level unless they really performed marginally (34s) by end of season.

 

[raenndrops]

I have seen this play out both ways. As mentioned in this thread, a gymnast might not get required skills to move to the next level and then will repeat even with a 38 AA, but with that said, if a gymnast is good enough to get a 38 they are typically strong enough to get their skills and move to the next level. I have seen gyms sandbag all of the time. They want to have the top scoring gymnasts and team. Personally, it gets my goat when girls should be moved up and other girls don't have the opportunity to place. On the flipside, sometimes coaches also know that the 38 at L8 might only be a 35 at best as a new L9 especially with repeat L9s in the meet. Sometimes they would rather have the gymnast repeat the level rather than score lower and lose confidence. Our gym moves the girls if they have the skills for the next level unless they really performed marginally (34s) by end of season.

L8/L9 is a lot different than L2/L3/L4 or Xcel Bronze / Silver / Gold.
Of course, I don't like the "everyone will compete 2 years at each Xcel Division" gym plans either.
I think gymnasts should be evaluated on their individual merits. If a girl dominates Bronze and is already doing Maximum routines (or close to it), then she should be allowed to move up. If, in the off season, she is able to get the skills to compete solid Gold routines on all events, she should be allowed to skip Silver (Gold is the first REQUIRED division... unless the gymnast has JO experience at L4+, then she can compete Platinum or L7+ can compete Diamond).

 

[cbifoja]

I hope this post doesn't cause the thread to veer off to another direction but something greyhound said piqued my interest.

This idea that a kid who is used to scoring 38s will "lose confidence" if they are only scoring 35s. Is this a good idea? Is it in a kid's best interest to be so fragile that a 35 (not great, but respectable) would wound them? I guess I believe that learning to "lose" is just as important of a lesson as learning to win in this sport.

If a girl can do a skill reasonably well, is it in her best interest to wait until she can do it perfectly? I am NOT a fan of perfectionism. I find it burdensome and joy-sapping. I don't know...I'm just throwing out random thoughts here.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

JMO but if kids are basing their performance on a score rather then based on what they can actually do. They are going to have a hard time in life in general.

Puts their confidence in the hands of others rather then internally and their own "self" esteem.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

JMO but if kids are basing their performance on a score based on what they can actually do. They are going to have a hard time in life in general.

Puts their confidence in the hands of others rather then internally and their own "self" esteem.

 

[skschlag]

It is easy to say all of that, and to want your child to believe all of that, but for anyone it is difficult to go from the top to the bottom. I have seen it in my ds over the past year. That is human nature. And you question yourself "i used to be so good, why am I not so good now" which turns into just "I am not good". I get that scores and placements should not matter, but remember in some cases we are dealing with 7/8 year olds, or, teenagers. Sheesh, teenagers have the most tenuous hold on self esteem of any age group!

So, if a coach/parent/gymnast decides to compete a level again to gain confidence, keep confidence, etc, it is not up to me to judge. I do believe that most coaches have the best interests of their gymnasts in mind (not all, but most)

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Scores are relative. Its statistics.

I have these conversations over and over.

Again a kid got second with a low 30 because of age groups, her teammate 7th with a mid 35 score, different age group same meet, same routines. What does a score mean. relatively speaking. Not much.

You place on a podium, local meet of 10 in your age group.

You place 7th at States, with 130 kids. With a higher score.......... You go to regionals, maybe you place well maybe not. Umm you beat a thousand kids to get there. Hmmmm

Again, lots of kids can do a BWO on the floor. Not so many a BWO on a beam. And so on.

Tons of kids in L4, less as they go up. That is an achievement in itself.

But then I take my kid back to the video of her crappy cartwheel at 4 yrs old when she wonders how far she has come.

 

[cbifoja]

It is easy to say all of that, and to want your child to believe all of that, but for anyone it is difficult to go from the top to the bottom. I have seen it in my ds over the past year. That is human nature. And you question yourself "i used to be so good, why am I not so good now" which turns into just "I am not good". I get that scores and placements should not matter, but remember in some cases we are dealing with 7/8 year olds, or, teenagers. Sheesh, teenagers have the most tenuous hold on self esteem of any age group!

So, if a coach/parent/gymnast decides to compete a level again to gain confidence, keep confidence, etc, it is not up to me to judge. I do believe that most coaches have the best interests of their gymnasts in mind (not all, but most)

I hope I didn't come across as judgmental. I'd like to hear from others about their opinions. Helps me grow as a person.

 

[skschlag]

Not at all cbifoja....just giving that side.

Just because we expect kids to understand this, doesn't mean it doesn't affect them. ANd like I said, imo, it is the decision of the coach/gymnast/parents. repeat, don't. It doesn't affect us. It is up to them, and what they want to do with their path.

I think it is important to realize that the psyche of each child is so different, and waht is done for one, to help them succeed may not be the same as another. (I am not saying that there are not teams out there that sandbag, but really, you shoudl know their reasoning.) So, holding a kid back at a level may hurt one kid, help another. The end game is the same, the path can be straight, windy, or even double back a couple of times.

We can tell kiddos all of that...about scores, and placements. And eventually it will click for some. But there are kids out there that will struggle with this a lot. I have seen many kiddos quit because compulsary was easy for them, high placements, they were TOP DOG. Then comes optionals, and suddenly they are middle of the pack. That is really hard for any person to deal with and we have to recognize that.

 

[duyetanh]

Not at all cbifoja....just giving that side.

Just because we expect kids to understand this, doesn't mean it doesn't affect them. ANd like I said, imo, it is the decision of the coach/gymnast/parents. repeat, don't. It doesn't affect us. It is up to them, and what they want to do with their path.

I think it is important to realize that the psyche of each child is so different, and waht is done for one, to help them succeed may not be the same as another. (I am not saying that there are not teams out there that sandbag, but really, you shoudl know their reasoning.) So, holding a kid back at a level may hurt one kid, help another. The end game is the same, the path can be straight, windy, or even double back a couple of times.

We can tell kiddos all of that...about scores, and placements. And eventually it will click for some. But there are kids out there that will struggle with this a lot. I have seen many kiddos quit because compulsary was easy for them, high placements, they were TOP DOG. Then comes optionals, and suddenly they are middle of the pack. That is really hard for any person to deal with and we have to recognize that.

I completely understand this perspective. And firmly believe it is why some of the kids quit once they hit optionals. I have to admit, I am pretty thrilled my girl doesn't care about the placing, she cares about the tricks/skills. Because when she gets lucky and actually places in something, it is reallllllly fun!!