WAG skills discrepancy

[tomtnt]

My daughter started to have a noticeable discrepancy in her skills development during her level 9 season. She is extremely strong on vault, beam, and floor but very weak on bars. This summer, the gap appears to be widening while training 10. she was all the necessary skills for 10.0 start value on vault/beam/floor but will struggle to start at 9.5 on bars. Was curious if this is "common" for most gymnasts? are high level bars skills the toughest to develop? (she's a atiny, fast-twitch powerful gymnast with average to below-average flexibility)

 

[sce]

My daughter started to have a noticeable discrepancy in her skills development during her level 9 season. She is extremely strong on vault, beam, and floor but very weak on bars. This summer, the gap appears to be widening while training 10. she was all the necessary skills for 10.0 start value on vault/beam/floor but will struggle to start at 9.5 on bars. Was curious if this is "common" for most gymnasts? are high level bars skills the toughest to develop? (she's a atiny, fast-twitch powerful gymnast with average to below-average flexibility)

This is quite common, have you seen Simone Biles and Aly Raisman? Both fabulous gymnasts but their bars do not match their other events. Then there is Madison Kocian who excels at bars and has weaker abilities on the other 3 events.

 

[thefellowsmom]

My dd is a bar worker and could have a level ten bar and beam routine but only has level nine floor and vault ready for this season. They are coming along, but not as quickly as bars, where she excels. I think your situation is more common than mine based on what I read on here, but imbalance, at least temporarily, seems very common.

 

[gymmom10]

My daughter is also weaker at bars and I don't think she will start at a 10.0 this season. But like your daughter, much stronger on the other 3 events. It is frustrating, but at least they have 3 strong events! Bars takes time.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Lets see Simone competed on all events except bars. Yet 4 golds. Why? Bars are hard.

They just are.

I think a 9.5 start value with 10 on the other three is great at level 10. But then my kid is just L5

 

[UnoMas]

Mine has gone back and forth as she's moved through the levels with bars being her best event at times, and her worst at others. She was state champ on bars her first year competing. Had a very rough time as she grew and in L6 it was by far her worst. Right now it is her most solid event approaching the new season. I'm sure it will change again. From what I've seen it is very common for bars to be a weaker event especially starting a new level.

 

[ayyyrial]

Bars is a very different event from the other 3. It benefits from a different skill set and different body type, and uses different muscles. That's why it's very common for girls to be much less advanced on bars.
It's also an event where skills are often a long time coming. The drills start years before you can turn them into competition-ready skills - especially with releases. So it's common that a gymnast's bar routine during her first year of a level won't have all the skills to the point of perfection (e.g. in lower level optionals not hitting handstands, in upper levels having a lower SV).

 

[tomtnt]

This is quite common, have you seen Simone Biles and Aly Raisman? Both fabulous gymnasts but their bars do not match their other events. Then there is Madison Kocian who excels at bars and has weaker abilities on the other 3 events.

yes, I've noticed the girls who excel at Bars tend to have the long lines, lean body type - similar to Madison Kocian and Lochlear. I wonder if that body type helps with the physics of the tap or does it just give the impression of the nice lines that judges look for on Bars.

 

[thefellowsmom]

My dd is light/smallish with clean lines and natural toe point, but I would say what makes her strong at bars is she has tremendous core stability and strength, very flexible shoulders that are also very strong with a good handstand shape and the ability to hold her shapes under the pressure that bars puts on the body.

Her lightness definitely slows her progression on the power events.

Judges like clean lines on all events. But maybe being able to hold those tight under all that force could be part of it?

 

[ayyyrial]

I'd hypothesize that the "bars" body type typically has less weight in the lower body and a center of gravity closer to the torso. That makes it easier to use the upper body in the ways that are needed on bars - e.g. lifting the hips above the head for a handstand, rotating the body quickly around the bar, using the strength of the upper body to propel other movements like releases.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Too many variables, but I will say that if a gymnast is allowed to perform skills with poor technique in the lower optional levels it essentially puts a block on L10 bars. So yes very common to be strong certain events. However, you say tiny fast twitch and powerful , I say "thats a bar kid". How are the rest of the girls on team on bars?

 

[gymbeam]

I love reading these theories. bars seem to be emerging as my daughter's "jam" and she is indeed the tallest in her training group. She's also becoming a very strong vaulter.

(Now, her group is a bunch of rrreallly short-for-their-age girls so even though she is taller than them, she is still shorter than average among peers outside of gym.)

Meanwhile, floor seems to be emerging as her so-called weak spot. (Level 8, by the way.)

 

[gymbeam]

....and i know that fast-twitch convo. has happened before, but since it is mentioned here, can someone tell me again how you distinguish fast or slow?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

....and i know that fast-twitch convo. has happened before, but since it is mentioned here, can someone tell me again how you distinguish fast or slow?

You can just see it. They have a much quicker muscle twitch.

 

[vagymmomma]

....and i know that fast-twitch convo. has happened before, but since it is mentioned here, can someone tell me again how you distinguish fast or slow?

. Just to add on what coachp said. You literally can see it, but until you have some experience in the sport it may not seem obvious. I now know that mine is fast twitch, but it took me years to understand it. In what is now L3, people used to comment how fast her backhandsprings were. I didn't realize it was muscle based - just thought it was technique. The coaches tell her now she twists faster, flips faster, vault run is faster, and some skills just fly higher. There are definitely girls on the team who are very successful slow twitch optionals, but it does limit them with some optional skills. It's most telling to me on beam. Think how fast Simone does her BHS-BLO-BLO then look at L8s/9s doing BHS series. To me -- it feels soooooo slllooowww with girls that are not fast twitch.

 

[tomtnt]

Too many variables, but I will say that if a gymnast is allowed to perform skills with poor technique in the lower optional levels it essentially puts a block on L10 bars. So yes very common to be strong certain events. However, you say tiny fast twitch and powerful , I say "thats a bar kid". How are the rest of the girls on team on bars?

yea.. i think my daughter developed some bad habits at level 8 which are now catching up to her. I can't blame it on the coach though as we also have some amazing bar workers on our level 9/10 team. The ones who do excel at bars on our team have the same build as Madison Kocian.

My daughter lacks that perfectionist trait that so many of the high level gymnasts have... but then again, because of that, she's doesn't get too hard on herself when she falls or when she doesn't do as well at meets etc... she brushes it off, moves onto the next event/meet. so it's good and bad...

 

[rjb123]

coachp- my DD tumbles VERY fast- even on beam. Her coaches are always trying to slow her down when she is doing her series, but she says she literally CAN'T go slower. I suspect she might be fast twitch, and maybe this is causing her inability to slow things down? Is it "bad" or a deduction to do things "too fast"?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

coachp- my DD tumbles VERY fast- even on beam. Her coaches are always trying to slow her down when she is doing her series, but she says she literally CAN'T go slower. I suspect she might be fast twitch, and maybe this is causing her inability to slow things down? Is it "bad" or a deduction to do things "too fast"?

Possibly, would need to see a video.

 

[Invisible Duck]

....and i know that fast-twitch convo. has happened before, but since it is mentioned here, can someone tell me again how you distinguish fast or slow?

Here is some information on fast/slow twitch muscles https://kofitness2010.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/fast-twitchslow-twitch-which-one-are-you/
It is not gymnastics specific but it will give you an idea

As for being able to tell just looking at person, I went to new physio and she had some students with her and her first comment to them about me was "look at those type II muscle fibers, that's a great example"

 

[Aussie_coach]

Very normal and very common. Bars is often a weak event for many gymnasts.

Seeing the gap widening is also common, it does not nessesarily mean her bars training is not up to scratch, it could be a reflection of how well she is progressing on her other apparatus.