When is a parent "too involved"?

[Shawn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvgym Do you watch the classes at school? School is more important anyway right?

When my DD is at the gym for 7 hours a day, five days a week, mostly sitting at a desk, I will definitely have to re-think watching all her practices.

[mtbmom]

Hi Shawn,

You can take this reply with a grain of salt if you like. I've noticed in another post you talked about paying your daughter $1.00 for each time she got a cartwheel on beam (I think). Do you think that it she is trying to please you by practicing and not quitting on a mistake? I just worry that with 12 hours a week (which is a LOT for a 6 year old) training and a mini-gym at home that she sees that what you want is a gymnast. Children will try to please their parents. As well as a plethera of other behaviors to try and get attention from their parents.

Rather than spotting her and watching her practice at home until she gets something right, perhaps some family or mommy & me time away from the gym or mini-gym would be beneficial.

Please know I am saying this in kindness. I just heed what others have said about it being a marathon not a sprint. Overtraining/overuse injuries are a very sad thing to see. And, they can happen even in the very young. Also, if your daughter doesn't ever want to end practice on a negative, perhaps you need to remind her that it takes a LONG time to attain certain skills and remind her to have fun.

I think gym mum?'s idea about cross-training is a good idea. Perhaps swimming, riding a bike, or even going to the playground would be a good alternative outlet for your daughter.

Also, I would be wary of a gym that trains Level 4 (esp. a 6 year old level 4) 12 hours a week. Is there any evidence that shows that 12 hours of practice at this level is more beneficial than 9 hours a week? We have a local gym that trains their Level 4's 14 hours/week. Not one kid made it to L4 states. The two other gyms in the area train 9 hours a week and both had L4 state champions.

I just truly believe that over-training is dangerous and as a nurse I see what injuries do to a person long term. Please be very careful with your daughter. We have both seen posts on the parents forum regarding children being injured and not getting the medical help needed until the injury was permanent. That is a shame and a reminder that even coaches with the best intentions are coaches. As parents we are the only advocates for our children. We all need to remember this and not get distracted by the goal. The goal should be to have fun! We often can get caught up in how far our child may go. I try (not always successfully) to stay in the now and remember, fun is the most important thing, esp. at 6 years old.

Hope you haven't taken offense to my post, but I gave an honest, well intentioned reply.

[flippymonkeysmom]

I think one of the most sickening examples of an over involved mother was last year at the optional state meet. We were there to watch and cheer on my dd's level 9 teammates. There was a gymnast there from a very competitive gym. During the season she won just about everything. Her first event at states was vault and she did beautifully - but then came out to the waiting area to tell her mother she felt really sick and dizzy and didn't think she could finish the meet. The mother went ballistic on her. In front of everyone she started screaming at her that she was going to finish the meet. The girl was hysterical crying saying she was afraid to get hurt because she was so dizzy. The mother kept saying - you will finish this meet and qualify for regionals - this is what we have been working so hard for. Finally the a coach came out and said that it wouldn't be safe for her to compete feeling that way. The mother refused to even look at her daughter. Surprise, surprise - the girl isn't doing gymnastics anymore. I was so angry - first of all it is the girl who has been working hard - not the mother. And I couldn't believe she would actually risk her daughters safety. Sickening.

Oh - and when I was growing up we called it stage mothers too.

[mtbmom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippymonkeysmom During the season she won just about everything. Her first event at states was vault and she did beautifully - but then came out to the waiting area to tell her mother she felt really sick and dizzy and didn't think she could finish the meet. The mother went ballistic on her. In front of everyone she started screaming at her that she was going to finish the meet. The girl was hysterical crying saying she was afraid to get hurt because she was so dizzy. The mother kept saying - you will finish this meet and qualify for regionals - this is what we have been working so hard for.

WOW!!! That poor kid! She can leave gymnastics, but she'll need serious therapy to deal with having that woman for a mother.

[Shawn]

That whole "we" thing drives me crazy. "We" didn't just get a cartwheel on the beam. I couldn't do that to save my life! My DAUGHTER did it. Who is this "we" anyway?

[gymjourneymom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Taucer Like I said earlier, going to meets, watching practice, encouraging your kid's hard work, this is all stuff that parents can do, and should do. As far as the gymnasts' training is concerned, that's the parents job; to provide support and encouragement, and I can't imagine how there could be such a thing as too much of that. "Too involved" is when the parents start stepping into the coaches' territory. Coaching their kids, bribing their kids, yelling at their kids when they don't do well.

This is the type of response I expect to get if/when I try to discuss my situtation with the club owner. So far he has let this woman do what ever she wants...she has the run of the place. My dd has been at this gym for 6 yrs, has been a state champ twice, has always been happy & has many friends on all levels. This is the 1st time my dd has told me another parent has made her feel "uncomfortable". My dd has even considered leaving the gym b/c of this woman(not necessarily her dd). It would be all well & good if she stayed to watch her dd....but she watches my dd too....intensly...bordering on scary. And I don't think the owner is going to do anything about it...even if I discuss it with him. B/c our dds are the same age & level & she seems the have the owner's "ear" ...I'm afraid anything I say will be seen as "sour grapes". Thanks Shawn for this thread & thanks to the CB for this forum. So far the only person I've been able to discuss my situation with, is another mother who moved her child as soon as she heard this woman was coming to our gym...she had already left on gym b/c of her & knew what she was like. I was really good friends with that mom, but even I thought she was over reacting..."this woman can't be that bad"....I thought!!! But now I find she will stop at nothing in order for her dd to win...right now my dd is in her way. This is not the team we once had Since my dd is the one she sees as her dd's main competition...my dd & I are the only ones who are really affected by her behavior. Can't decide if it's even worth "discussing" it with the owner. We may just leave...but hate to think we let this woman drive us away from a place my dd WAS happy & thriving. She really doesn't want to leave her friends & coaches....just this woman!!!!

[Shawn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbmom Hi Shawn, You can take this reply with a grain of salt if you like. I've noticed in another post you talked about paying your daughter $1.00 for each time she got a cartwheel on beam (I think). Do you think that it she is trying to please you by practicing and not quitting on a mistake? I just worry that with 12 hours a week (which is a LOT for a 6 year old) training and a mini-gym at home that she sees that what you want is a gymnast. Children will try to please their parents. As well as a plethera of other behaviors to try and get attention from their parents. Rather than spotting her and watching her practice at home until she gets something right, perhaps some family or mommy & me time away from the gym or mini-gym would be beneficial. Please know I am saying this in kindness. I just heed what others have said about it being a marathon not a sprint. Overtraining/overuse injuries are a very sad thing to see. And, they can happen even in the very young. Also, if your daughter doesn't ever want to end practice on a negative, perhaps you need to remind her that it takes a LONG time to attain certain skills and remind her to have fun. I think gym mum?'s idea about cross-training is a good idea. Perhaps swimming, riding a bike, or even going to the playground would be a good alternative outlet for your daughter. Also, I would be wary of a gym that trains Level 4 (esp. a 6 year old level 4) 12 hours a week. Is there any evidence that shows that 12 hours of practice at this level is more beneficial than 9 hours a week? We have a local gym that trains their Level 4's 14 hours/week. Not one kid made it to L4 states. The two other gyms in the area train 9 hours a week and both had L4 state champions. I just truly believe that over-training is dangerous and as a nurse I see what injuries do to a person long term. Please be very careful with your daughter. We have both seen posts on the parents forum regarding children being injured and not getting the medical help needed until the injury was permanent. That is a shame and a reminder that even coaches with the best intentions are coaches. As parents we are the only advocates for our children. We all need to remember this and not get distracted by the goal. The goal should be to have fun! We often can get caught up in how far our child may go. I try (not always successfully) to stay in the now and remember, fun is the most important thing, esp. at 6 years old. Hope you haven't taken offense to my post, but I gave an honest, well intentioned reply.

I appreciate your comments and I absolutely did not take any offense. I completely understand what you're saying. But, I do take care to let my DD know that I love her and I am proud of her for many reasons, not just gymnastics. And with her gymnastics, I tell her I'm proud of how well she works and how hard she tries, not for what she can do.

The increased hours (it's actually 11 per week- I made a mistake) just started last week. When she was making us go broke with the cartwheels, she was only a practice 5 hours a week. She does still practice some at home but she's usually outside riding her bike or on the swingset or tampoline, or she's at the kitchen counter with her markers and art supplies. She will be taking swimming lessons this summer (she needs to finish learning to swim whether she wants to or not; safety, you know). We also do frequent "girls days" where she and I go out to lunch or shopping or something. And her favorite thing to do is to cuddle up with me before bedtime and watch "House Hunters" on HGTV (go figure). Trust me, our relationship, and her life, is not all about the gym. I'm very careful about that.

As for doing gymnastics for me, I am absolutely sure that pleasing me is not the case. She wanted to do gym, she has been begging to be on the team since she was 4 years old, and she would live at the gym if we'd let her. When she was 5, she watched a girl do a cool tumbling pass on the floor. DD turned to me, very seriously, and said, "Mom, I have to come every day." She is very driven and determined. She does not like anything (gymnastics, school, learning to ride a bike, etc) get the best of her. She excels because she wants to. We just support her and make sure she's safe and happy. The minute she's not happy anymore, we stop.

Btw, every girl on the L4 team made it to state this past season and the team placed 5th in the state out of 28 teams. Several of the girls also placed individually. Also, my DD is the only 6 yr old at this level. The next youngest girl on her team is 8.

[Shawn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymjourneymom This is the type of response I expect to get if/when I try to discuss my situtation with the club owner. So far he has let this woman do what ever she wants...she has the run of the place. My dd has been at this gym for 6 yrs, has been a state champ twice, has always been happy & has many friends on all levels. This is the 1st time my dd has told me another parent has made her feel "uncomfortable". My dd has even considered leaving the gym b/c of this woman(not necessarily her dd). It would be all well & good if she stayed to watch her dd....but she watches my dd too....intensly...bordering on scary. And I don't think the owner is going to do anything about it...even if I discuss it with him. B/c our dds are the same age & level & she seems the have the owner's "ear" ...I'm afraid anything I say will be seen as "sour grapes". Thanks Shawn for this thread & thanks to the CB for this forum. So far the only person I've been able to discuss my situation with, is another mother who moved her child as soon as she heard this woman was coming to our gym...she had already left on gym b/c of her & knew what she was like. I was really good friends with that mom, but even I thought she was over reacting..."this woman can't be that bad"....I thought!!! But now I find she will stop at nothing in order for her dd to win...right now my dd is in her way. This is not the team we once had Since my dd is the one she sees as her dd's main competition...my dd & I are the only ones who are really affected by her behavior. Can't decide if it's even worth "discussing" it with the owner. We may just leave...but hate to think we let this woman drive us away from a place my dd WAS happy & thriving. She really doesn't want to leave her friends & coaches....just this woman!!!!

Does this woman say stuff directly to your DD? If she does, you definitely should complain to the coach. The coach shouldn't want anyone criticizing his athletes. Another thought might be to say something, calmly, to the other mother. I'm not sure I'd have the nerve to do that but you might. You could also talk with your daughter and explain to her about jealousy and how some people just behave badly. Your DD will need to learn how to handle those kinds of people anyway. If she's otherwise safe and happy at the gym, maybe now is the time to learn how to deal with that.

There were a couple of parents, and girls, too, who complained when my DD got skipped to L4, rather than L3 with the rest of her team. They didn't think it was fair. They thought all the girls should move up as a team. As a result, some of the girls were pretty rude to DD the last few practices with her old team. I had to explain to her why and how to handle it. Needless to say, she is quite happy at L4 and doesn't have problems with any of the older girls. I don't know if this would help your DD or not since she can't "get away" from the other girl.

[MdGymMom01]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny Smith BUT when it comes to my child she will not say anything, unless it is negative. Does it bother me, yeah it does, but I don't say anything - I just figure that there must be some kind of jealously there on her behalf. My kid works hard and I think she is a beautiful gymnast, she continues to improve - that's the important thing, plus my dd has no idea she is like this. I have to admit that I really enjoy the workouts when she is not there, it's quiet and peaceful. I would consider just putting on my ipod and ignoring all that goes on up there, but I do enjoy talking to the other moms.

I can totally relate to this. There were maybe a few parents like this at my dd's old cheer gym. They would praise all the other flyers except my daughter, but they would definitley make it known aloud if my dd fell or had a bent leg or something. It totally boiled down to jealousy. I don't inderstand why people can't just appreciate everyone and give praise and credit when and where it is due. Is it so hard to be genuinely happy or proud for someone???
I totally believe in karma and what goes around comes around, so these people usually get theirs eventually.

[Blackie6]

Everyone will have a different answer to who the over involved parents are. I think over involved could be positive or negative. We have some parents that are over involved in the fact that they send a lot of time in the gym or doing gym (meet, parent organization, ect...) related activities. They have lots more time than I do and I think it's great they are able to use their time for the better of the gym in a positive way.

Then there are the over involved parents that affect the gym in a negative manner. Those are the ones that scare me! I've only experienced one year of meets and about 4 years of being in the gym (rec, pre-team, team) and the over involved moms sit together at all practices and meets bragging about their daughters and only cheering their selected group of girls. After meets they brag about how well their DD scored but offer no congratulations to your DD on their awards. And, on those bad days when their DD doesn't do well at a meet...it's the coaches fault that they didn't spend MORE time with their DD. If your DD is the youngest, the worst, the least talented, they don't have the time of day for you unless no one else from their group is there at practice for the moment. Once another OI (over involved) mom comes from their social group/level, they immediately terminate whatever small talk they were having with you to run over to the other mom. During practice they have hand signals for their DD's who have to constantly look over for signs of approval, dissapproval when they do any skill. After practice they run right over to the coach for a private talk on how their DD did at that practice. When you walk into the gym, they can be found grilling the owner and office staff as well. When working meets they will only work with a buddy from their new level. And now that they moved up to L5 (thank God!) they negotiate & argue to get the best practice times/summer hours for their DD's and then brag to you that your hours changed because of them, LOL Oh, and they are now upset that Your DD will move up to L5 too next year and that they will have to compete with them all over again because their DD's are so much better. They all have home gyms, make their DD's watch youtube routines to embed them into their DD's brains, and they have to have a gazillion privates for extra help to get even better then they already are. Funny thing is that most of the girls get along great (I love the girls!) when they see each other, so the OI is only amongst the moms! YEAH!

Hows that for a description? I love the L4 group of moms I'm with now & can't wait to go to comps w/them. While I sit in the gym sometimes when practice starts, I only hang out to talk to a few moms and often don't even see what my own DD is doing. I try not to bother the coach, I am sure she will approach me if/when there is a problem, and my DD only practices handstand and splits at home when she wants, I don't ask her, make her or talk about gym when we leave the gym. We don't stress at meets, do your best is good enough, and whenever she goes to practice I say "have fun". At the point is is no longer fun, we will quit. She's only 7 and IMHO slow and steady wins the race we are not Olympic bound. My friends have strict instructions if I ever do turn into one of those wacked out OI moms I should be banned from the gym forever, LOL