Lament of the B-streamer

[emorymom]

If you want to maintain the A teamers' interest and find out who in your B teams will ultimately be a great optional gymnast, you need to scrap your old system and have this system:

The minimum number of hours for Level X are Y. Gymnasts may choose to practice up to Z hours. After each competitive season, gymnasts will be considered for re-leveling.

If you PUSH the extremely TALENTED so hard by giving them a huge number of required hours at a young age, you are likely to lose them. Also, the point of being extremely talented is that they don't NEED as many hours to progress as the less apt and since this is a marathon not a sprint, you might see that they ultimately acheive more if you are not pushing them through the levels so fast, but letting them enjoy their talent and other things, and choose major commitment when they are older.

On the other side, if you continue to force the kids who don't show early talent, but have extremely high commitment, into extremely low-hours programs, you are going to see them not reach their potential. If you have a girl who is a 10yo first year L4 and you only let her practice 7 hours a week, is it going to be a shock for you that she takes 3 years at L4 since she's also going to be growing 5 inches a year during that period? Heck, she probably needs the 7 hours a week just to maintain skills during a growth spurt.

Gymnastics needs to pay more attention to swimming.

[JBS]

I think the problem is in the way you worded it, JBS. "If the program is done correctly...it should lose more B-track kids as the levels increase. If the A kids are leaving...it is not working." It makes it sound as if you want the less talented kids to give up and go home. Even if that wasn't your intention, I think that is how it is coming across to people.

At our gym, although I haven't been involved very long so I don't know all the history, from what I've seen we do lose more B stream than A stream girls. I think that is because the A stream (development) girls have to be so dedicated to even be on that track. Those girls practically live at the gym, they even eat a lot of their meals there. So there is no-one in that group who doesn't totally live and breathe gymnastics. With the B stream, some of them do persevere and do very well, and the club is proud of them. Our club is very small anyway and we don't have many girls at optional levels. Other B streamers drop out, but it isn't like the club wants them to leave or is glad about it.

Yes...I type things as I see them...no other way. This is why I do everything that is important through face to face meetings at the club. Then parents have a chance to ask me questions right away. Email is bad.

Exactly right...we're not looking for "B" stream kids to drop out...it just happens. I have one "B" stream style gymnast who is older for her level. She is definitely "A" stream at another sport in her school. What sport she will pick...I don't know...but as she grows older she is definitely gravitating towards her "A" sport at school. This gymnast has gotten every thing she has from hard work...nothing came naturally...she is very fun to work with. This is a kid that is built for almost every other sport...not gymnastics. She will be the "star" at many of the sports in her school...other sports come very naturally to her. Is it even fair that I try to hold her in gymnastics as she learns to love what she is really good at?

I'm not looking for anyone to leave gymnastics...but the above gymnast has many options. With options come choices. I represent only one of her options and I do not control her choices.

EDIT: Sorry...I forgot to say...the above "B" style gymnast is now in our optional program and could go further. I would love for her to do so...but that is up to her. So back to the OP..."B" stream does not mean "give up".

[JBS]

If you want to maintain the A teamers' interest and find out who in your B teams will ultimately be a great optional gymnast, you need to scrap your old system and have this system:

The minimum number of hours for Level X are Y. Gymnasts may choose to practice up to Z hours. After each competitive season, gymnasts will be considered for re-leveling.

If you PUSH the extremely TALENTED so hard by giving them a huge number of required hours at a young age, you are likely to lose them. Also, the point of being extremely talented is that they don't NEED as many hours to progress as the less apt and since this is a marathon not a sprint, you might see that they ultimately acheive more if you are not pushing them through the levels so fast, but letting them enjoy their talent and other things, and choose major commitment when they are older.

On the other side, if you continue to force the kids who don't show early talent, but have extremely high commitment, into extremely low-hours programs, you are going to see them not reach their potential. If you have a girl who is a 10yo first year L4 and you only let her practice 7 hours a week, is it going to be a shock for you that she takes 3 years at L4 since she's also going to be growing 5 inches a year during that period? Heck, she probably needs the 7 hours a week just to maintain skills during a growth spurt.

Gymnastics needs to pay more attention to swimming.

I was typing my last post when this one came in.

I am now sitting here knowing exactly why ChalkBucket was created. This post is absolutely brilliant!

I have nothing more to say...

Thank you emorymom!

EDIT: So many people told me why I was wrong...emorymom gave me a solution. BRAVO! Logic at its finest.

[beamer]

Thank you all for these well thought-out responses.

I understand JBS's desire to build a program that meets the needs of all gymnasts. I think many of the people who have responded -- to this post and its instigator from yesterday -- have the same feeling that, while separate streams make sense on some level (love emorymom and blackie6's plans though), there is a very raw inclination toward self-preservation (or DD preservation?) here.

I love my daughter's passion for this sport that is so good for her body and her mind. I love the discipline and work ethic that gymnastics has brought to her life. As I've written a number of times before, I especially love the idea that she could be in a gym working out with friends and mentoring coaches when she becomes a teenager -- instead of trolling the mall or Facebook. I would be ecstatic if my daughter became that hard-working high school-aged B-streamer JBS wrote about above. I just don't want her to ever give it up because she is undervalued...

Maybe someday I will be posting a brag alert about a meet full of 9s. Heck, maybe someday I can post a brag alert about a 9 (DD has never gotten one). Until then, I will continue to be happy about 7s and 8s and hope that her passion for this sport does not wane.

[Sparky]

My viewpoint on all of this (this post and JBS's) is that I think the athletes should be given the opportunity to show or prove what they can/cannot, are willing or not willing to do - NOT have the decision made for them before they have had that opportunity, by being placed in a group that trains less hours, has lesser expectations, etc.

[10.0]

I really like a changing system rather than a permanent A or B stream labeling of a kid. Kids can change. Many at the bottom jump to the top while the top fall for a variety or reasons. I think parents and coaches should be realistic to the potential while not crushing hope.

Our gym does AAU and they have different levels in each level (novice, advanced and elite) it gives the kids a more equal chance of competing no matter where they fall in the stream. Basically the A's are not going against the B's. And after the meet is over the gym separates the kids based on the scores they got and if they competed novice, advanced or elite. The training groups practice the same amount of hours and you are assigned bronze, silver or gold on each event. Bronze concentrates on the basics a lot, silver concentrates on getting the routine clean and gold does a bit of working the routines as well as uptrains. The cool thing is you can be a bronze on vault but a gold on bars and while the kids do sometimes get upset the cool thing is the slate is clean after the next meet.

I like this system as it gives the more advance kids a chance to work harder skills but does not permanently label them as talented or not so.

[bogwoppit]

I really like a changing system rather than a permanent A or B stream labeling of a kid. Kids can change. Many at the bottom jump to the top while the top fall for a variety or reasons. I think parents and coaches should be realistic to the potential while not crushing hope.

Our gym does AAU and they have different levels in each level (novice, advanced and elite) it gives the kids a more equal chance of competing no matter where they fall in the stream. Basically the A's are not going against the B's. And after the meet is over the gym separates the kids based on the scores they got and if they competed novice, advanced or elite. The training groups practice the same amount of hours and you are assigned bronze, silver or gold on each event. Bronze concentrates on the basics a lot, silver concentrates on getting the routine clean and gold does a bit of working the routines as well as uptrains. The cool thing is you can be a bronze on vault but a gold on bars and while the kids do sometimes get upset the cool thing is the slate is clean after the next meet.

I like this system as it gives the more advance kids a chance to work harder skills but does not permanently label them as talented or not so.

Sounds a bit like Miss Abby's pyramid from the Dance Moms series!

[hickory]

This thread is striking a chord with me. My oldest daughter is a L5 (first year) and is struggling after a successful year at L4. We haven't gone to our first meet yet - but after scoring 9's last year, I fully expect her to score in the high 7's and low 8's this year (from what I've seen at practice).

Her coach (diff. HC from L4) has done an "unofficial" A team and B team. I can see at practice that the A team gets more attention from the coaches, and NOW, the A team is getting invited to small groups (3 at a time) additional practice time of 3-4 hours a week (usually L5's and L6's practice together and there are about 26 girls and 3-4 coaches).

Now, my daughter is not the most talented kid on the team and does not have the typical gymnast body type, but you could not find a kid who is more willing to work hard at gymnastics. (Never misses a practice, gives up birthday parties for practice, gives up EVERYTHING for practice). If you offered her 20 hours a week of practice, she would do it! So, it makes me a little sad that she is not getting the same opportunity as the other girls on the team to improve.

I like emorysmoms suggestion.

[ginnymac]

I, too, love emorymom's post. My dd is really involved in diving now and that is how the program operates. It is an extremely successful program.

[JBS]

Here is more...

“A” Team / “B” Team vs. Finding Highly Committed Gymnasts