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Old 09-06-2007, 06:46 AM
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Proposed USAG Junior Olympic men's routines

http://h.xerol.org/download.php?f=476
If that link doesn't work, try this one: http://h.xerol.org/f.php?f=476

Here are the proposed boys USAG Junior Olympic routines for the next quadrenium.

Thoughts?

Here are mine:

Floor:

Level 4&5:
-I really like the press from prone to stradle stand. Excellent addition. But why not have it in level 5 as well?

Level 6:
-I don't see the purpose of a front handspring stepout front handspring (although I never really liked the handspring bounder much either).
-I prefer the split press of the current routine over the stradle stand and stradle press of the new one

Level 7:
-In the final pass, I think the gymnast should have the option of adding a second backhandspring between the whip and the salto.


Pommel horse:

Level 4:
-I vehemently dissagree with the idea of doing only mushroom. I agree the the focus should be shifted more towards mushroom than it is now, but to neglect legcut work entirely is a very bad idea in my opinion.

Level 5:
-I notice there's no mention of spindles in the mushroom routine. I do not think spindles should be taken out.

Level 6 & 7:
-I vehemently dissagree with the lack of any scissors at any compulsory level.

I like the overall shift in favor of more emphasis on circle work as opposed to scissor work, but I think these routines take it a bit too far.


Rings:

Level 5:
-Straddled flyaway? I'm sorry, but that's flat-out idiotic. I think it is completely developmentally useless, and if it ends up in the final routine, I will teach a normal tucked or laid-out flyaway and take the deduction rather than training a straddled flyaway.

Level 6:
-I think the cast should go to immediate back uprise. I don't think there should be swings in between. Though to be honest I preferred the old routine (inlocate, inlocate, back uprise) to the current one.

Level 7:
-I don't like the lower to shoulderstand from handstand, and the subsequent bail from shoulder stand. I don't think we should be doing a routine that specifically teaches a bent-arm bail.


P-bars:

Level 5:
-I don't like the additional swing before the first back uprise. It does not seem to have any developmental purpose.
-I have never liked the inverted pike in upper-arm support; it seems to be very counterproductive in the progression towards a front-uprise, and other skills from upper-arm support.
-I like the dismount, though it should be noted that some gyms (mine included) will have to alter their p-bars setup to train this routine.

Level 6:
-I think, for the stradle travel, a reverse stradle cut to stradle support should be allowed as bonus. Otherwise, I see no point in having the stradle travel at all.

Level 7:
-I think a flyaway dismount, as opposed to a wende, should be bonus.


Hi-bar

Level 7:
-By this level, I don't think there should be any "controlled stops" in the routine. I think a back uprise to free hip would be a much better mount. Of course, the rest of the routine would have to be reconstructed accordingly.
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Last edited by Geoffrey Taucer; 09-09-2007 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 09-09-2007, 11:05 PM
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Here is the full rough draft:
To: Junior Men’s Community
From: Jeff Robinson – Jr. Olympic Program Coordinator
Re: Compulsory Routine Elements for next quadrennium
The compulsory writing team of Tom Meadows, Brandy Wood, Yuejin Sun, Bob Young and have met numerous times by conference call to develop the compulsory end of our Age Group Competition Program for our next quadrennium.

The following is an event-by-event listing of the proposed routine elements for our next quadrennium. It is the intention of the compulsory writing team to have these raw routines circulated in elementary form to gather feedback from the men’s community on the work so far.

Please address any and all feedback to: Jeff Robinson at the following address:




2009-2012 - Compulsory Writing Team
(Aggregate Raw Work so far - 8-10-07)
Floor Exercise

Level 4:
  • Handstand forward roll
  • Jump hurdle to cartwheel, chasse’, cartwheel, ¼ turn in to tall stand
  • Tucked backward roll (with extension) to hollowed prone support
  • One push-up
  • Press with straight arms to straddled stand
  • Press to headstand (2 sec. hold)
  • Forward roll to piked sit (momentary? hold)
  • Straddle to pancake (momentary? hold)
  • Roll backward from pancake bringing legs together to candle stand (show full extension)
  • Roll forward from candle-stand position to stand
  • Run, hurdle, roundoff and rebound to stick.
Level 5:
  • Run, hurdle, front handspring (rebound allowed)
  • Step to handstand forward roll (no hold required)
  • Roll through tuck and pike up to handstand ½ pirouette
  • Pike down from handstand and back extension roll to hollowed prone support
  • Jump to straddled stand
  • Press to handstand
  • Roll to piked sit
  • Straddle and pancake split (2 sec. hold)
  • Roll backward from pancake bringing legs together to candle stand (show full extension)
  • Roll forward from candle-stand position to stand
  • Run, dive roll (body straight or slightly hollowed), step and forward chasse’ to cartwheel
  • ¼ turn forward to lunge
  • Front scale (2 sec. hold)
  • Step, kick, jump ½ turn to stick
  • Run, Roundoff, back handspring, rebound and stick
Level 6:
  • Run hurdle front handspring step out, front handspring (rebound allowed)
  • kick handstand straight arm forward roll, jump ½ turn
  • back extension to handstand fall to prone position
  • Swing leg forward to split (2 sec. hold)
  • swing other leg forward to pike sit
  • Roll backward from pancake bringing legs together to candle stand (show full extension)
  • Roll forward from candle-stand position to straddled stand
  • Press handstand (2 sec. hold)
  • forward roll to stand, run punch front somersault
  • kick to handstand, straight arm forward roll pike up to 1/1 pirouette roll to 1 knee
  • 180’ turn backwards to stand, lunge to forward scale, bring legs together to stand
  • Run, hurdle, Roundoff, back handspring, back somersault tucked
Level 7:
  • Run, Roundoff, back handspring, layout back somersault
  • Tucked or piked back extension roll to early 180° reverse pirouette to prone position
  • Move any leg forward to any split
  • From any split: Straight arms, bent body straddled press to handstand
  • Optional corner transition
  • Front handspring step-out, front handspring, front somersault (tucked, piked or layout)
  • (front handspring, bounder, front somersault for bonus)
  • Optional corner transition
  • Roundoff, back handspring, back handspring, tucked back somersault
  • (Roundoff, whip back, back handspring, tucked back somersault for bonus)
Pommel Horse:

Level 4:

Mushroom Routine Only:
  • 3.5 Circles
  • 5.5 Circles – Bonus

Level 5:

Mushroom Routine:
  • 5.5 circles
  • 7.5 circles – Bonus
Horse Routine:
  • Jump to 3 straddled swings
  • Leg cut forward to 3 stride swings
  • Leg cut backward to
  • Leg cut forward to 3 stride swings (the other way)
  • Leg cut backward to
  • Leg cut forward
  • Leg cut forward to dismount
Level 6:

Mushroom Routine:
  • 5 circles
  • 3 flaired circles
  • 2.5 circles
Horse Routine:
  • Jump to single leg travel up from end to saddle
  • 2 consecutive false scissors
  • Straddled swing
  • 2 consecutive false scissors (the other way)
  • Straddled swing to feignt to
  • 1.5 circles to dismount (as in current level 6 set)
Bonus:
  • Jump to 2 front loops – 0.2 Bonus
  • Jump to 4 front loops – 0.4 Bonus

Level 7:

Horse routine (pendular)
  • Jump to 3 straddled swings
  • Leg cut to 3 false scissors
  • Straddled swing
  • leg cut to 3 false scissors (the other way)
  • Leg cut to rear support pick-up into
  • 1.5 circles on the pommels to dismount (as in current level 6)
Horse routine: (circular)
  • Jump to 2-3 circles on the pommels
  • (Czechkehr for bonus here)
  • 2 circles
  • 2 flaired circles
  • 2 circles
  • Side travel to 2 front loops and loop ½ turn dismount
Bonus: (and it needs to be real big bonus)

Instead of side travel to front loops and dismount:
  • Direct Stockli-A and 1/3 cross-support travel to the end and 2 back loops to dismount


Still Rings:

Level 4:
  • From straight arm hang, pull to flexed arm hang
  • (2nd pull up for bonus)
  • Lower to straight arm hang; raise legs to hanging “L” (2 sec. hold)
  • “Drop” legs and swing backward
  • Swing forward, Swing backward
  • Swing forward, Swing backward
  • Swing forward, Swing backward
  • Swing forward to straight arm inverted hang
  • Lower legs to piked body inverted hang
  • (bonus for extension through back lever position with momentary hold)
  • Lower to long hang position
  • Drop and stick landing
Level 5:
  • Muscle up to support (spot allowed) lock arm turn out and hold (2 sec. hold)
  • L, roll backwards to piked inverted hang
  • back lever, lower to long hang
  • pull out, cast to back swing
  • front swing, back swing
  • front swing, back swing
  • front swing, back swing
  • inlocate to back swing
  • front swing, back swing
  • front swing, back swing
  • front swing to straddled flyaway.
Level 6:
  • Pull to inverted hang
  • cast, back swing, front swing
  • back swing to up rise, lock arm turn out and hold, L
  • press to shoulder stand (handstand on inside of straps for bonus)
  • roll back to piked inverted hang
  • extend to back lever (2 sec. hold)
  • lower to long hang, pull out to piked inverted hang
  • Cast to back swing
  • Front swing, back swing
  • Front swing, back swing to
  • inlocate, inlocate
  • back swing, front swing
  • back swing, front swing to
  • dislocate, dislocate
  • (bonus for shoulders at or above ring height on any inlocate or dislocate)
  • Layout flyaway

Level 7:
  • Pull to inverted hang
  • Cast, back up rise, lock arm turn out and hold, L
  • Press to tucked planche
  • lower to L
  • press to handstand on inside of straps
  • lower to shoulder stand
  • bail to 2 inlocates
  • back swing, front swing
  • back swing front swing to
  • 2 dislocates
  • Front swing to layout back somersault (double back allowed)
Vault:

No changes are anticipated on vault other than to re-define the special performance criteria for the evaluation of the run and the hurdle to the board.


Parallel Bars:

Level 4:
  • From stand, jump to support and swing forward
  • Swing backward
  • Swing forward,Swing backward
  • Swing forward, Swing backward
  • Swing forward to a straddle leg position on the bars
  • Immediately reach hands in front of legs and lift legs off bars, (straddled travel) and swing forward to “L” position (2 sec. hold)
  • Swing backward, swing forward
  • Swing backward, swing forward
  • Swing backward, swing forward
  • Swing backward to dismount over either rail
Level 5:
  • From stand or short run, long hang swing forward
  • Long hang swing backward, long hang swing forward
  • Long hang swing backward and uprise to upper arm support
  • Upper arm support swing forward to piked upper-arm “cast” position
  • Cast to backward upper arm support swing to back uprise to support
  • Swing forward, swing backward
  • Swing forward, swing backward
  • Swing forward, swing backward to handstand hold (2 sec. hold)
  • Swing forward, swing backward
  • swing forward and straddle legs to straddled sit on bars
  • straddled travel to swing forward
  • Swing backward and bail to long hang swing forward to
  • flyaway off end of bars (allow a hand spot on hand for bail)

Level 6:
  • From stand or short run, Glide kip to back swing
  • Front swing, back swing
  • Moy to upper arm support (“cast” position allowed)
  • Back swing to back up rise
  • Front swing, back swing to straddle L
  • press to handstand
  • Front swing, swing to handstand hold (2 sec. hold)
  • Front swing, back swing
  • Front swing to straddle sit
  • Straddle travel to swing forward
  • Swing backward and bail to long hang swing forward to
  • flyaway off end of bars (allow a hand spot on hand for bail)
Level 7:
  • From stand or short run, glide kip to support
  • Swing backward and bail
  • Moy to upper arm support
  • (giant to support and front swing to “L” for bonus)
  • Back uprise to “L” (2 sec, hold)
  • Piked or straddled press to handstand (2 sec. hold)
  • Swing forward, swing backward to
  • layaway to front uprise
  • swing backward to nominal handstand
  • swing forward, swing backward to pirouette in either direction
  • (early pirouette either forward or backward to handstand for bonus)
  • Swing forward, swing backward to
  • Either swing forward to back tucked somersault dismount or swing forward and swing backward to wende dismount

Horizontal Bar:

Level 4:
  • Pull over
  • Cast to horizontal
  • Undershoot
  • Swing backward and hop
  • Swing forward
  • Swing backward and hop
  • Swing forward
  • Swing backward and hop
  • Swing forward with ½ turn to mixed grip
  • Swing forward, swing backward and change grip to double overgrip
  • Swing forward, swing backward
  • drop to dismount and stick.

Level 5:
  • Cast and back swing
  • Front swing, back swing (tapping action)
  • Front swing to swinging pullover (with tapping action)
  • Undershoot to back swing
  • Front swing to kip (stop permitted) (immediate kip-cast for bonus)
  • Cast to back hip circle (clear hip circle for bonus)
  • Undershoot to back swing and hop
  • Front swing, back swing and hop
  • Front swing, back swing and hop
  • Front swing with ½ turn and block the bar to immediate drop to feet and stick
Level 6:
  • Cast to back swing
  • front swing to kip
  • stop and change to double undergrip
  • cast to handstand
  • ¾ giant to hop to double overgrip (undergrip giant before ¾ giant for bonus)
  • Front swing, back swing
  • Front swing with ½ turn to mixed grip
  • Front swing, back swing and change to double overgrip
  • Front swing and kip to support
  • Cast to ¾ overgrip giant swing (overgrip giant before ¾ giant for bonus) to
  • Undershoot to back swing
  • Front swing, back swing
  • Front swing to flyaway dismount (tucked, piked or layout)

Level 7:
  • Cast to back up rise
  • controlled stop and change grip to under-grip
  • Cast to handstand
  • 2 to 3 front giants (endo allowed for bonus)
  • Pirouette
  • 2 to 3 back giants
  • Swing ½ turn or hop ½ turn (minimum 45° above horizontal)
  • 2 or 3 back giants (clear hip, stalder or piked toe-on, toe-off allowed for bonus)
  • Flyaway dismount (tucked, piked or layout)
  • (3/4 giant to undershoot, back swing to front swing allowed before dismount)
(There will be no option for a double back dismount)
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Tucked backward roll (with extension) to hollowed prone support
Does this mean they're taking the back roll to pushup position from the girls' level 4 routine? What do people think of that? It looks really awkward and some of the kids seem to struggle with it. I think they might as well just do a regular back extension roll.
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:49 PM
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I realy like the backward roll to prone; the advantage over going straight to a back extension roll is that it teaches the kids not to arch when they extend.

The thing to keep in mind with a backward roll/extension is that, for developmental purposes, it is not a floor skill; it is a bar skill. It doesn't lead to harder floor skills, it leads to free-hips and stalders. For both of these skills, it is extremely important not to arch on the extension, and this is something that many kids have trouble with.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:59 AM
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Hey, I posted this over on DrillsandSkills Forum where my friend runs the board and I mod. Here's my post.

My ideas on it.

FX:

L4 sounds ok, doing a push up after the prone support sounds a bit gimicky but could be fun for the boys and amusing to watch.

L5 they are finally taking out the headspring. I like headspring enough, and it is different enough from handspring; which makes it confusing to teach a bit. As a prelimary skill to the bounder/flyspring, I have never really liked it. Dive roll may be interesting, but they are already doing front tuck off a board. I'd hate to see a lot of leaning over dive rolls.

L6: I'd like to see the option of front handspring to flyspring as well. Perhaps as a bonus. I'm never been much for FH step out.


PH:

L4: Something similar: gymnasticscoaching . com has an article from his experiences about coaching pommel to early

Perhaps that's where this push to get them off the horse is following.
On one hand, many L4 are very small to the PH or just too new. It's often the event they dislike the most when new to team. If L4 is supposed to be rec, it could make sense. I've been thinking about looking for a jr pommel horse that has the pommels closer.

Taking the spindle out, hmm.

SR:

Doing an extra pullup in the routine I find hokey, but I think the direction is it for fun to the boys.

I don't want to see straddled flyaways in L5. Other than that, rings doesnt' change much.

PB: flyaway off end of bars in L5. Hmm, used to be an old compulsory skill. However, could be overboard for a lot of L5. No more wende dismounts I guess. A lot of boy's still aren't swinging to HS in L5 and it might be easier to have them flip. Pirouette in L7= good.

HB: No back hip circle in L4. Sure, who cares. As for a swinging pullover in L5. ICK. UCK. BLECH. I don't like the skill much at all to begin with. I'd love it if they can do the giant, they just skip the 3/4 giant ( or baby giant/swinging pullover whatever you call it ). Maybe an uprise in L6 after the 3/4giant. Eh.

No blind change or mandatory clear hip in L7. Weird, just too used it.


Not that my opinion means anything or that I have been in the sport long enough. Just my 2 bits.


In response to you:

L6 press seems they want to encourage the old bonus stalder/endo press.

Scissors in compulsory. Ehh, false scissors are roughly the same as scissors to me until you start doing scissor half and scissor full. I do like connecting opposing side scissors though.

Straddled Ring Flyaway. I'm the idea is they want to them to really swing all the way to the candle and straddle at the top ( last second ). Perhaps that's my interpretation. Not that I like it.

Swing before Back Uprise. I'm thinking they want to see some swing in the back uprise vs a really muscled back uprise because their lack of swing from the cast. I've had a heck of a time getting compulsories to really pump from that cast position.

I'm thinking the bail is partially from Tom Meadow. He teaches the bail from shoulderstand so that they push out of it. He went over it a bit during a session on rings during Congress.

Pbar swing in upper arm. Perhaps they want to encourage upper arm swing development. Yippee. It's very similar to what's being down now except they are stating it as a swing.

I've always thought the cast from upper arm was to encourage them to cast into the back uprise. Not as a front uprise progression. A little similar to the cast to back uprise on rings.

I'm gonna guess the straddle travel is to give them a pause to prep for the bail.

They'd have to bring back the blind change to have a connected L7 bars routine. Back Uprise action to free hip to back giants. Perhaps as a bonus with back uprise back hip circle to support cast to back giant otherwise.
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:41 PM
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My comments in reference to Taucer's comments:
Floor
I don't see the purpose of a front handspring stepout front handspring (although I never really liked the handspring bounder much either)

The purpose of this pass is for basic level gymnasts' to understand the idea of maintaining forward momentum in front tumbling. The snap through the chest, head and arms working together etc. necessary for advanced level front tumbling. Without it the junior USA program would be greatly skipping over the process of fundamental front tumbling work.

Pommel Horse
I vehemently dissagree with the idea of doing only mushroom. I agree the the focus should be shifted more towards mushroom than it is now, but to neglect legcut work entirely is a very bad idea in my opinion.

Look at the construction of high level/elite Pommel Horse routines. How many skills do you perform with the fundamental circle and how many do you perform with the Group I element Scissor work? Yes, youngsters need to learn about the leaning, support and hip flexor strengthening process that leg cut/scissor work provide, but for one element group to be emphasized so heavily in the beginning stages when 75% of the other requirements on the Pommel Horse require the circle as the fundamental building block to routine constructing is hardly a case to vehemently disagree with something.

Rings
Straddled flyaway? I'm sorry, but that's flat-out idiotic. I think it is completely developmentally useless, and if it ends up in the final routine, I will teach a normal tucked or laid-out flyaway and take the deduction rather than training a straddled flyaway.

You must understand there is a progressive standpoint behind this skill that is not just to teach a Deltchev. Your National Program coaches are not just wasting time trying to make coaches and gymnast's frustrated on performing a skill that might not be necessary to their future development, even if the skill was not chosen as part of the routine. The straddle flyway teaches a gymnast to pull backwards on the rings prior to the release point on a basic flyway. Tell a gymnast to perform this without pulling backwards and you will find yourself in a precarious spotting position. It emphasizes the pull back of the rings necessary, again, for the fundamental process of basic swing.

I don't like the lower to shoulderstand from handstand, and the subsequent bail from shoulder stand. I don't think we should be doing a routine that specifically teaches a bent-arm bail

The idea is certainly not to teach a bent arm bail, rather to allow for a safe progression from the Handstand bail position. It allows a gymnast a 'medium height' starting position to understand the hanging position that a bail will present rather then going directly from handstand, something that is invaluable when introcuding basic bail progressions.

Parallel Bars
I don't like the additional swing before the first back uprise. It does not seem to have any developmental purpose.

The upper arms are going to take a battering in the years to come past basic level gymnastics, from Belle's to Morisue's etc. Gymnasts need to get the strength and the experience of swinging on the upper arms.


You must understand, even though some of the progressions, routines, sequences, etc. seem to the underlying eye to be worthless, stagnant and 'idiotic' you are talking high level, national gymnastics coaches dictating the direction which they want their national system to progress. They will take this progress very seriously and will not include anything that is going to hinder their progress in the future. Even if the proposals are not gone ahead with, the ideas are there for reasons, for basic progressions that help build fundamental bases for basic level gymnasts. You can't just disagree with these ideas without asking yourself what it is that National level coaches would do to put USA in jeapordy of teaching improper progressions/techniques for the talent of the future, even if they are just proposals!
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blantonnick View Post
My comments in reference to Taucer's comments:
Floor
I don't see the purpose of a front handspring stepout front handspring (although I never really liked the handspring bounder much either)

The purpose of this pass is for basic level gymnasts' to understand the idea of maintaining forward momentum in front tumbling. The snap through the chest, head and arms working together etc. necessary for advanced level front tumbling. Without it the junior USA program would be greatly skipping over the process of fundamental front tumbling work.
I agree in principal, but I don't think a handspring bounder or a handspring stepout handspring is the best way to do it.

Go to any L6 meet, and watch the floor routines. Almost every single gymnast (at least this is the case in NC) will, rather than doing a proper handspring and a proper bounder, do a front handspring that lands crouched in anticipation of the bounder, followed by something that is, in effect, more like a front headspring than a bounder. I think a FHS-front tuck is EASIER to to do properly than FHS-bounder. As is a front-front.

A FHS-bounder could be a good skill to work on parallel to FHS-front layout, but that's assuming it's done correctly. I think a CORRECTLY performed FHS-bounder is a much higher-difficulty skill than most L6 guys can perform.

As for the FHS stepout FHS, I don't think it helps at all to teach the sort of snap through the chest that is necessary for good connected front tumbling. To connect one forward-landing element to a forward takeoff element requires a well-timed snap from arch to hollow (and sometimes back to arch, depending on the skill); a FHS-steoput doesn't really have anything like this.

Admittedly, I like the stepout better than the bounder, but this doesn't say a lot.

Quote:
Pommel Horse
I vehemently dissagree with the idea of doing only mushroom. I agree the the focus should be shifted more towards mushroom than it is now, but to neglect legcut work entirely is a very bad idea in my opinion.

Look at the construction of high level/elite Pommel Horse routines. How many skills do you perform with the fundamental circle and how many do you perform with the Group I element Scissor work? Yes, youngsters need to learn about the leaning, support and hip flexor strengthening process that leg cut/scissor work provide, but for one element group to be emphasized so heavily in the beginning stages when 75% of the other requirements on the Pommel Horse require the circle as the fundamental building block to routine constructing is hardly a case to vehemently disagree with something.
I wrote that response awhile back, and have since changed my mind. Though I would point out that I said in the first place that I agreed in principal with shifting the focus more towards mushroom.

Quote:
Rings
Straddled flyaway? I'm sorry, but that's flat-out idiotic. I think it is completely developmentally useless, and if it ends up in the final routine, I will teach a normal tucked or laid-out flyaway and take the deduction rather than training a straddled flyaway.

You must understand there is a progressive standpoint behind this skill that is not just to teach a Deltchev. Your National Program coaches are not just wasting time trying to make coaches and gymnast's frustrated on performing a skill that might not be necessary to their future development, even if the skill was not chosen as part of the routine. The straddle flyway teaches a gymnast to pull backwards on the rings prior to the release point on a basic flyway. Tell a gymnast to perform this without pulling backwards and you will find yourself in a precarious spotting position. It emphasizes the pull back of the rings necessary, again, for the fundamental process of basic swing.
Like the FHS-bounder, it's a great skill if we assume the gymnasts will perform it correctly right from the start. But as you said, if they do it incorrectly, they better hope they have a good spotter.

The straddle does force gymnasts to release prior to their hips comming past the straps; I'll give it that. However, it also teaches them to pike on the way up, and it makes it impossible for them to get the sort of outward throw of the rings necessary for higher-level dismounts.

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I don't like the lower to shoulderstand from handstand, and the subsequent bail from shoulder stand. I don't think we should be doing a routine that specifically teaches a bent-arm bail
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The idea is certainly not to teach a bent arm bail, rather to allow for a safe progression from the Handstand bail position. It allows a gymnast a 'medium height' starting position to understand the hanging position that a bail will present rather then going directly from handstand, something that is invaluable when introcuding basic bail progressions.
As with PH, I've changed my stance since I wrote that, and I think you're completely right.

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You must understand, even though some of the progressions, routines, sequences, etc. seem to the underlying eye to be worthless, stagnant and 'idiotic' you are talking high level, national gymnastics coaches dictating the direction which they want their national system to progress. They will take this progress very seriously and will not include anything that is going to hinder their progress in the future. Even if the proposals are not gone ahead with, the ideas are there for reasons, for basic progressions that help build fundamental bases for basic level gymnasts. You can't just disagree with these ideas without asking yourself what it is that National level coaches would do to put USA in jeapordy of teaching improper progressions/techniques for the talent of the future, even if they are just proposals!
I completely understand that there are reasons behind every single one of the changes to the routines; I would love to hear what they are. However, "These coaches are more experienced than you" is hardly enough explanation for me to accept whatever they have to say without question. Many of the most useful things I've learned about coaching have been from coaches with very little experience, and I can think of a few coaches with 10+ years experience who I still consider to be ineffective coaches.

There has been an updated version sent out since the version posted here. I'll post the new version later tonight.
__________________
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Originally Posted by audra
Body type and age do not make a gymnast - dedication and determination is what matters!
http://www.geoffreytaucer.com for custom-composed routine music. Latest demo added 1/24/08.

Last edited by Geoffrey Taucer; 02-09-2008 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:27 AM
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I'll beat you to it, Geoffrey. I posted them to Drillsandskills awhile back, but it never got much response. Perhaps not enough MAG coaches or we are all too busy with the season.

Level 4:

· Handstand forward roll
· Jump hurdle to cartwheel, chasse’, cartwheel, ¼ turn in to tall stand
· Tucked backward roll (with extension) to hollowed prone support
· One push-up
· Press with straight arms to straddled stand
· Press to headstand (2 sec. hold)
· Forward roll to piked sit (momentary? hold)
· Straddle to pancake (momentary? hold)
· Roll backward from pancake bringing legs together to candle stand (show full extension)
· Roll forward from candle-stand position to stand
· Run, hurdle, roundoff and rebound to stick.

Level 5:

· Run, hurdle, front handspring (rebound allowed)
· Step to handstand forward roll (no hold required)
· Roll through tuck and pike up to handstand ½ pirouette
· Pike down from handstand and back extension roll to hollowed prone support
· Jump to straddled stand
· Press to handstand
· Roll to piked sit
· Straddle and pancake split (2 sec. hold)
· Roll backward from pancake bringing legs together to candle stand (show full extension)
· Roll forward from candle-stand position to stand
· Run, dive roll (body straight or slightly hollowed), step and forward chasse’ to cartwheel
· ¼ turn forward to lunge
· Front scale (2 sec. hold)
· Step, kick, jump ½ turn to stick
· Run, Roundoff, back handspring, rebound and stick


Level 6:

· Run hurdle front handspring step out, front handspring (rebound allowed)
· kick handstand straight arm forward roll, jump ½ turn
· back extension to handstand fall to prone position
· Swing leg forward to split (2 sec. hold)
· swing other leg forward to pike sit
· Roll backward from pancake bringing legs together to candle stand (show full extension)
· Roll forward from candle-stand position to straddled stand
· Press handstand (2 sec. hold)
· forward roll to stand, run punch front somersault
· kick to handstand, straight arm forward roll pike up to 1/1 pirouette roll to 1 knee
· 180’ turn backwards to stand, lunge to forward scale, bring legs together to stand
· Run, hurdle, Roundoff, back handspring, back somersault tucked

Level 7:

· Run, Roundoff, back handspring, layout back somersault
· Tucked or piked back extension roll to early 180° reverse pirouette to prone position
· Move any leg forward to any split
· From any split: Straight arms, bent body straddled press to handstand
· Optional corner transition
· Front handspring step-out, front handspring, front somersault (tucked, piked or layout)
· (front handspring, bounder, front somersault for bonus)
· Optional corner transition
· Roundoff, back handspring, back handspring, tucked back somersault
· (Roundoff, whip back, back handspring, tucked back somersault for bonus)

Pommel Horse:

Level 4:

Mushroom Routine Only:
· 3.5 Circles
· 5.5 Circles – Bonus

Level 5:

Mushroom Routine:

· 5.5 circles
· 7.5 circles – Bonus

Horse Routine:

· Jump to 3 straddled swings
· Leg cut forward to 3 stride swings
· Leg cut backward to
· Leg cut forward to 3 stride swings (the other way)
· Leg cut backward to
· Leg cut forward
· Leg cut forward to dismount

Level 6:

Mushroom Routine:

· 5 circles
· 3 flaired circles
· 2.5 circles

Horse Routine:

· Jump to single leg travel up from end to saddle
· 2 consecutive false scissors
· Straddled swing
· 2 consecutive false scissors (the other way)
· Straddled swing to feignt to
· 1.5 circles to dismount (as in current level 6 set)

Bonus:

· Jump to 2 front loops – 0.2 Bonus
· Jump to 4 front loops – 0.4 Bonus


Level 7:

Horse routine (pendular)

· Jump to 3 straddled swings
· Leg cut to 3 false scissors
· Straddled swing
· leg cut to 3 false scissors (the other way)
· Leg cut to rear support pick-up into
· 1.5 circles on the pommels to dismount (as in current level 6)

Horse routine: (circular)

· Jump to 2-3 circles on the pommels
· (Czechkehr for bonus here)
· 2 circles
· 2 flaired circles
· 2 circles
· Side travel to 2 front loops and loop ½ turn dismount

Bonus: (and it needs to be real big bonus)

Instead of side travel to front loops and dismount:
· Direct Stockli-A and 1/3 cross-support travel to the end and 2 back loops to dismount



Still Rings:

Level 4:

· From straight arm hang, pull to flexed arm hang
· (2nd pull up for bonus)
· Lower to straight arm hang; raise legs to hanging “L” (2 sec. hold)
· “Drop” legs and swing backward
· Swing forward, Swing backward
· Swing forward, Swing backward
· Swing forward, Swing backward
· Swing forward to straight arm inverted hang
· Lower legs to piked body inverted hang
· (bonus for extension through back lever position with momentary hold)
· Lower to long hang position
· Drop and stick landing

Level 5:

· Muscle up to support (spot allowed) lock arm turn out and hold (2 sec. hold)
· L, roll backwards to piked inverted hang
· back lever, lower to long hang
· pull out, cast to back swing
· front swing, back swing
· front swing, back swing
· front swing, back swing
· inlocate to back swing
· front swing, back swing
· front swing, back swing
· front swing to straddled flyaway.

Level 6:

· Pull to inverted hang
· cast, back swing, front swing
· back swing to up rise, lock arm turn out and hold, L
· press to shoulder stand (handstand on inside of straps for bonus)
· roll back to piked inverted hang
· extend to back lever (2 sec. hold)
· lower to long hang, pull out to piked inverted hang
· Cast to back swing
· Front swing, back swing
· Front swing, back swing to
· inlocate, inlocate
· back swing, front swing
· back swing, front swing to
· dislocate, dislocate
· (bonus for shoulders at or above ring height on any inlocate or dislocate)
· Layout flyaway


Level 7:

· Pull to inverted hang
· Cast, back up rise, lock arm turn out and hold, L
· Press to tucked planche
· lower to L
· press to handstand on inside of straps
· lower to shoulder stand
· bail to 2 inlocates
· back swing, front swing
· back swing front swing to
· 2 dislocates
· Front swing to layout back somersault (double back allowed)

Vault:

No changes are anticipated on vault other than to re-define the special performance criteria for the evaluation of the run and the hurdle to the board.


Parallel Bars:

Level 4:

· From stand, jump to support and swing forward
· Swing backward
· Swing forward,Swing backward
· Swing forward, Swing backward
· Swing forward to a straddle leg position on the bars
· Immediately reach hands in front of legs and lift legs off bars, (straddled travel) and swing forward to “L” position (2 sec. hold)
· Swing backward, swing forward
· Swing backward, swing forward
· Swing backward, swing forward
· Swing backward to dismount over either rail

Level 5:

· From stand or short run, long hang swing forward
· Long hang swing backward, long hang swing forward
· Long hang swing backward and uprise to upper arm support
· Upper arm support swing forward to piked upper-arm “cast” position
· Cast to backward upper arm support swing to back uprise to support
· Swing forward, swing backward
· Swing forward, swing backward
· Swing forward, swing backward to handstand hold (2 sec. hold)
· Swing forward, swing backward
· swing forward and straddle legs to straddled sit on bars
· straddled tra