Alternative Grades..

[Ex member]

My youngest may not be now doing the new Club Grades 6&5, she has been asked along with the rest of the group to return their homework dairies back to the coach as the Grades that were written in there were wrong, I have looked in her diary and compared Club Grade 6 to the one that was written on a different thread and there was no difference. I have com to the conclusion that they will probably be doing their own Grades set by our County like some groups did last year, I heard in the grapevine (a parent was told by the coach) that the girls are not strong enough yet to do the bars on Club Grade 6. Near enough all of the can do chin ups and leg lifts on the high bar and recently only one of the older ones manges to do a long hang pullover on the high bar, they don't really work on longhand pullovers seriously, they are left to their own devices during conditioning with the coach no where near the bar, if the younger ones (including my dd) cannot quite manage a long hang puller over (she gets her knees to the bar) then won't it make sense the work on them more seriously and maybe support them? Near enough all the girls can do all the things in Club Grade 6, there maybe a couple who struggle with flexibility on range and conditioning (dd is not one of them). I am sure that they girls can learn the long hang pullover in the coming months before Grades or is that not how it works, should they be at the stage where they can do the skills and are just cleaning them up?

If the rumours are true it will be very disappointing but not the end of the world for dd as she is still young and can do her grades another year if the opertunity comes. If they are doing their are area grades then what do they do roughly? From a quick look round the net I can see that a few clubs in the country did their area area grades for those not doing grade 14 or going down that path? We had something called County Grades levels 1-6 but cannot find any info on it, I am sure other areas did similar things to our county. These are similar but easier then Grades 14 or New Club grade 6, they had Range and Conditionig and Floor, Vault, Bars and Beams. Has anyone got any ideas what these area grades could be if their club does them?

 

[xrachx]

I'm not much help I'm afraid, but I am in the same boat though!
I know that if DDs coach decides not to put her in for club grades, she'll end up doing county levels too (different from voluntary levels).
The rest of DDs team who haven't been picked for grades will be doing levels, but I'm yet to work out what the structure is.

For now she's still training grades, so I can only keep everything crossed she's allowed to compete it when the time comes....

 

[Ex member]

Annoying and frustrating isn't it. Especially after telling the girls that they will be doing the new grades, printing off all the info and sticking it into their books. It seems as if either the coach of someone higher up doesn't have much confidence in the girls and basically write them off, I guess I can see where they are coming from in terms of the older girls who are 10-14 but what about the 8 year olds, too early not to give them the chance and toss them on the scrap heap doing not much more than the rec kids except loads of conditioning. Dd's coach thinks county levels are a waste of time. I was under the impression that the county levels were being scrapped and everyone who is not elite but in development was going to be doing the new grades.

Any info at all on County Levels would be much appreciated, it doesn't matter was region, just was an idea of the range and conditioning and other bits they have to do.

 

[Ex member]

xrachx what hours does your dd do? Mine does 5 hours a week (2 x 2 1/2)

 

[Iwannabemargo]

we don't have anything like these county levels per se, we use the levels system to arrange county comps but all competitive girls do grades, the club level grades are not that hard and we don't worry at what age the girls do the grades (eg this year we had a 17 year old do grade 12).

I would be upset if they couldn't drag a group through the new grade 6.

 

[Uglybetty]

Similar here....vast majority of DD's squad are still not ready for club grade 6 or 5 (many have been doing gym for a few years and train 3 x a week). The main ones doing them are the tiny little ones who are very bendy/strong.

Seemingly the two key deciders have been: (1) their ability to excel (I.e. Not scrape a pass) at the range and conditioning set (which is pretty tough); and (2) that horrible leg dip thing on beam (which has defeated lots of girls who can do everything else). I guess it's also fair to say that they want them to be able to be competitive post-grades (meaning they need far harder skills than the grade requires). Therefore, lots of girls are sticking with 2 pieces and concentrating on up-training for the future.

My guess is that those who have experienced the "starter" grades (14/13) before the changes don't quite appreciate how tough they now are to not just "pass" but do well at. They're particularly tough on late starters! If Amanda Readman/BG was trying to put a lot of little girls off gym (and push them into other sports) then she has done a fantastic job! (And yes I do hope someone at BG sees this!). Girls who are very dedicated and who work hard will lose interest if they can't do the "club" grades!

 

[Ex member]

Similar here....vast majority of DD's squad are still not ready for club grade 6 or 5 (many have been doing gym for a few years and train 3 x a week). The main ones doing them are the tiny little ones who are very bendy/strong.

Seemingly the two key deciders have been: (1) their ability to excel (I.e. Not scrape a pass) at the range and conditioning set (which is pretty tough); and (2) that horrible leg dip thing on beam (which has defeated lots of girls who can do everything else). I guess it's also fair to say that they want them to be able to be competitive post-grades (meaning they need far harder skills than the grade requires). Therefore, lots of girls are sticking with 2 pieces and concentrating on up-training for the future.

My guess is that those who have experienced the "starter" grades (14/13) before the changes don't quite appreciate how tough they now are to not just "pass" but do well at. They're particularly tough on late starters! If Amanda Readman/BG was trying to put a lot of little girls off gym (and push them into other sports) then she has done a fantastic job! (And yes I do hope someone at BG sees this!). Girls who are very dedicated and who work hard will lose interest if they can't do the "club" grades!

DD turned 8 in October, she is quite flexible, can do the range and conditioning part, from what I have read can do near enough all grade 6 with the exception of the long hang pullover, she is close. Dd's coach told me that she is strong, she is also tiny and the shortest by a long way in her group. I will be having a chat with the coach and find out why (or if) they are not doing the new club grades now after giving all the girls the info and asking them to practice the range and conditioning at home.

I am really confused at the moment with dd's group, thought things were going well, we were told in a quick meeting 2 weeks ago that the were all doing well and nothing was said about the grades. I don't know how many will stick in this group if things continue as they did this year, they do a lot of conditioning, very very slow progressions on skills and gave done 1 small friendly trampette and tumble comp this year, if things continue like this then I don't see much point in doing 5 hours a week to do comps that advance rec girls can.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Really, is the range that tough ? I must admit that I have studied 6&5 that much as it doesn't really affect Pink, but from what I have read here it doesn't seem that different to what they do for 14 at the moment, and we never had any problems getting even quite poor candidates through that easily. The beam dip I'm not sure what it is, they used to do a one leg beam sit in 14 is it similar ?

 

[Ex member]

The beam dip is part of Club Grade 5, they have to lift one leg to horizontal and squat down and then stand back up again with the free leg remaining at 90 degrees and then step forward nd repeat with the other leg.

Dd hasn't done grade 14 but from what I have read range isn't that much different, replacing the bench with Paralletes is one change, there may be others but nothing obvious.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

ah right, yep its tricky, but we used to have the girls practice a few every session , its just muscle strength, a bit harder for the long leggies, but its something that can be practiced at home quite easily

 

[Uglybetty]

I think part of the concern is that range and conditioning now counts towards medals....more experienced people than me have suggested that will have a major impact on who will medal (and therefore make the team in our region)....which seems odd because of course they will not have to do that when they then go on to compete throughout the year.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is - not doing a grade does not necessarily equate to "incapable of passing the grade". I know our coaches give a lot of thought to what's right for each girl and those held back last year are now doing really well.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

depends on you club ethos.

Ours is about including as many girls as possible and teaching them skills, not necessarily winning. I understand that many girls are sidelined in lots if clubs if they have no chance of winning, here if you want to enter and just scrape a pass then go for it - it keeps the girls moving forward and we don't get the drop out that you mentioned in your other post.

 

[Ex member]

I have had a chat with one of the mums in my Dd's group, her dd is 4 years older and can more reliable pass on the right information to her mum, apparently they had to hand in their books so range and conditioning home work can be written in them to do over the Christmas break, I guess the coach will set different homework depending on the gymnasts strengths and weaknesses. I am still on the fence about this and will see what happens when they get their books back a week on Tuesday. I will keep you updated..

 

[Frase]

In our area at least, range and conditioning always counted towards the final score and medals so there is no change there with the new 6+5 grades. In national grades the range score was needed to pass and medal/place overall but was dropped when figuring out the top 4 for the regional team which went to National finals which I thought was unfair. It didn't affect dd as she placed the same both with and without range but it did affect one girl in particular who was strong all round, placed 4th but lost her spot to another gymnast who actually came 9th when range was included.

I wonder if now range and conditioning is included will it be competed at National finals for National Grades?

 

[Noideaaboutgym]

I wish our club was more about everyone getting to have a go if they can pass. Some of ours were dropped on the last day of entry as they weren't competitive enough, it was very stressful for all the girls as they didn't know until then whether they were being entered or not. The ones who were entered were above half way so the others would have been fine, just lower table.
It is going to be the same this time, they all train like mad and find out too late to change anything whether they have been entered or not. No communication beforehand to help them improve weaknesses or anything. I don't understand this mentality at all

 

[stillgotmyleotard]

I really like the range and conditioning aspect. I think it encourages well-rounded coaching and gymnasts. Being able to 'chuck' a skill is not really what gymnastics is about and I like that strength, flexibility and control are looked at separately. The single leg dips on beam are difficult, no doubt about it. But, if a kid is going to progress, those key skills are important.

What will be really interesting is whether the new system means less girls are entered or pass the grades. I don't know how BG works as an organisation or whether Amanda Reddin has anything to do with what girls do for grades. But she does know what excellence looks like and how it is attained. If she does have the say on the skill sets, I'd be inclined to take heed of what she marks as important because she knows a whole load more about this sport and the development of gymnasts than I do.

As for late-starters, I think it depends on the club. A significant number of girls are doing them out of age at our gym so I think they are looking warmly on the older gymnasts but I know some clubs wouldn't consider it. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it all pans out.

 

[Jenny]

My issue with the single leg dips on beam is that the knee has to bend beyond 90% which is so not good for your knees. Sensible clubs with restrict the number done but we all know some clubs will be doing loads every practice. And seriously I can't think of a skill that involves that movement.

 

[Ex member]

Dd gas done a little of the leg dip, she has done it on the floor, they went from a leg dip straight into a cartwheel as part of their recent Christmas display.

Going back to the new grades, I am under the impression that these replaces the county levels grades for gymnasts on lower hours and includes more girls to take part. DD has never done any grades or county levels. I will ask the coach if they are still hoping the girls will do there grades. My dd can do all of Grade 6 and hear enough all of Grade 5, she needs to work on her long hang pullovers, she can do long hang leg lifts and pull ups. I am not sure about the dips on beam but I guess she can practice those on a mat at home that has a duct tape line on it if she needs to. Did has a chin up bar at home that she can practice leg lifts and chin ups on as well. Dd will be in age for grade 5 next year as she will turn 9 at the end of the year, but I suspect she can do 6 as minimum age is 8 which technically she will be but will be classed as a 9 year old. I think these new grades allow older girls to take part. We have mixed ability is Dd's group, the older ones are capable of doing region 4 and the younger ones at least club grade 6. Dd has no problems with range and conditioning (needs to improve her bridge kickover, she can do it but not from having one leg in the air yet, they never work on those though) but there is a couple of slightly older ones who will struggle with the splits.

 

[Uglybetty]

What will be really interesting is whether the new system means less girls are entered or pass the grades. I don't know how BG works as an organisation or whether Amanda Reddin has anything to do with what girls do for grades. But she does know what excellence looks like and how it is attained. If she does have the say on the skill sets, I'd be inclined to take heed of what she marks as important because she knows a whole load more about this sport and the development of gymnasts than I do.

.

Two things spring to mind:
(a) I don't think "club" grades are the place for such excellence....that is surely the role of the national and elite route. It sends the wrong signal - "we only want you to do gymnastics if you have what it takes to one day become an elite". Surely the role of "club" grades is to keep girls who can do well regionally, but who will most probably never make it to elite, in the sport. Otherwise....all that's left is two piece comps;
(b) it's pretty common knowledge that this countries most successful female gymnast (and Amanda's biggest "star") had dreadful range and conditioning;

I've heard a lot of experienced people (who absolutely know excellence when the see it) say that the leg dip on beam has no role in the introductory grades...that if BG want to use it, it should appear far higher up the grade structure. As Jenny says, it is not really a skill that has an obvious future benefit (the only skill I can think of which is remotely similar is the spin done on beam from a squatted position with one leg out in front....have no idea what it's called). That makes me suspicious that the real reason it's been included is to reduce the field (after all it appears right at the age there is already attrition from the sport and doesn't really match up with the difficulty level of what's required on the other pieces).

 

[Iwannabemargo]

But that is only in 6 right ? So it would be possible to either not do well on that skill and still pass 6 ( which I suspect the majority of boarderline candidates would do), or skip to 5 and avoid it all together.

The other skills don't seem that hard to me. With grades its possible to still do well and fluff a couple of skills - our last grading we had people fall on beam and bars several times and still get Highly Commended.

Oh and the spin in our club is known as the Biles spin, its a B on beam ( I now cause Pink has just added it to her routine)