Are there minimum training hours at the elite level?

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LMV

Proud Parent
I know that I may get ten different answers if I ask ten different people. I also realize that different gymnasts may require more or less and there may be advantages to both. What I’m wondering is if there is any kind of bare minimum?

For any elite coaches in our midst:
-Is there a set threshold for hours that is considered a deal breaker for working with a kid? Is it just not possible to even consider below a certain level?
-Is there flexibility in setting hours or is it more a scenario where a gym has a set elite training program and schedule and all athletes are expected to follow this?
-If a child is interested in pursuing elite at what point do you like them to join you? [Answers in terms of both age and training level would be helpful.]

Thanks!
 
I don't know the answer, but to add to the question ... would there be much of an increase beyond the hrs that would have been put in previously to get to that level??
I get the impression that training time would have to have been pretty high at least a few years before reaching an "elite" level to make it that far in the first place??
 
Athletes that are going the elite route most often start an elite training path long before they reach elite status. It differs from gym to gym, but often its the TOPs, HOPES (or something similar) and developmental camp route. If its the TOPs route (and the athletes are truly training TOPs skills, not just physical abilities) you are talking being a Level 8/9 (or at least REALLY training those skills) by the age of 10. You must get into the pre elite system (with a few exceptions) as a junior aged athlete- so you should really be in the system (at least classics) by 13 or 14.

Each gym that wants to implement a program must find a way to make it work, and yes, the athlete and family must work within the gym schedule. Most likely, because of the # of hours and space needed, there is no "elite" training during prime time, unless you are in a huge gym with an established program. There are usually 2 workouts a day, morning and early evening, but again this depends on the gym.
As for # of hours that are a deal breaker, it depends on the athlete, age, level and circumstances. What would be a deal breaker for me are athletes/ families that want to take off every school vacation, want their kid to miss for every school event or party, or if the kid just doesnt have the personality/desire/ work ethic that I know is necessary to be successful. I understand the need for some balance, but to be in a true elite program, there is honestly very little balance and a whole lot of dedication, hard work, desire,commitment and TRAINING. (Not saying its right or wrong, it just is, and its definitely not for everyone.)
 
I read John Geddarts blog thing a few days ago. Interesting what he says about selection for that program. Seems like parental support is as important as athlete interest.
 
This blog is a great reality check for aspiring "elite families". Sounds so grueling.

that's the truth! I was exhausted just reading it. I don't know how these girls can manage all that training. I mean, what about school??? I realize as a teacher, I'm edu-biased, but there is life AFTER gymnastics and it seems like attending high school and getting your diploma should be on an equal level as gym. How do you attend school and train those daytime hours? I know there are online programs and alternative paths, but I don't think I would want my daughter to give up her entire high school experience on a "pipe dream."
 
that's the truth! I was exhausted just reading it. I don't know how these girls can manage all that training. I mean, what about school??? I realize as a teacher, I'm edu-biased, but there is life AFTER gymnastics and it seems like attending high school and getting your diploma should be on an equal level as gym. How do you attend school and train those daytime hours? I know there are online programs and alternative paths, but I don't think I would want my daughter to give up her entire high school experience on a "pipe dream."

Most of the girls that do elite training end up with some type of homeschool program--rightly or wrongly they can't fit in a traditional school schedule with the training. Some do elite for a couple of years and decide its not for them because they don't have that day to day interaction at school.
At the elite level, gymnasstics does take over the athlete's life and the parents.
 
that's the truth! I was exhausted just reading it. I don't know how these girls can manage all that training. I mean, what about school??? I realize as a teacher, I'm edu-biased, but there is life AFTER gymnastics and it seems like attending high school and getting your diploma should be on an equal level as gym. How do you attend school and train those daytime hours? I know there are online programs and alternative paths, but I don't think I would want my daughter to give up her entire high school experience on a "pipe dream."

Bella's mom, you are aware there are parents here whose kids are pursuing that "pipe dream"? I know you dont mean to be insensitive but that remark could be taken that way, as a dimishing of what they are doing.

Just my 2 cents..
 
when it's done right, and everyone involved are on the same page, pursuing the elite level is not a pipe dream and although the experience is a blur the taking over of your life is expected and embraced.:)
 
when it's done right, and everyone involved are on the same page, pursuing the elite level is not a pipe dream and although the experience is a blur the taking over of your life is expected and embraced.:)

Yes, I suppose once you get to the level that you start considering interrupting school then you are close enough that it is no longer a pipe dream.
 
Bella's mom, you are aware there are parents here whose kids are pursuing that "pipe dream"? I know you dont mean to be insensitive but that remark could be taken that way, as a dimishing of what they are doing.

Just my 2 cents..

You're right, I didn't mean at all to be insensitive. I was trying to summarize a complicated process and chose a poor phrase to do so.

But boy, you just can't win on this board sometimes. If you talk about how your child is training to be an elite gymnast, so many people come down on you telling you how rare it is and how hard it is and not to get your hopes up. But apparently if you acknowledge that same line of thought, you are accused of diminishing someone's goals.

I think it's awesome and amazing that people have the talent and dedication to train for elite. I love watching the artistry and admire parents who can give that gift to their kids through financial support. I hope that clarifies how I feel about the gymnasts and the parents who are training for elite.
 
You're right, I didn't mean at all to be insensitive. I was trying to summarize a complicated process and chose a poor phrase to do so.

But boy, you just can't win on this board sometimes. If you talk about how your child is training to be an elite gymnast, so many people come down on you telling you how rare it is and how hard it is and not to get your hopes up. But apparently if you acknowledge that same line of thought, you are accused of diminishing someone's goals.

I think it's awesome and amazing that people have the talent and dedication to train for elite. I love watching the artistry and admire parents who can give that gift to their kids through financial support. I hope that clarifies how I feel about the gymnasts and the parents who are training for elite.

Honestly, I don't think posters "come down" on anyone for posting that their child is training for elite if they are 11 years old with Level 9/10 skills and in an elite program. Nor do I think anyone wants to rain on the parade of any gymnast who has elite aspirations. What I have seen is posters who will just try to bring some realism into the picture when people post about their 6 year olds training 25 hours a week for elite.

The best advice I ever got about elite was that as long as your dd is in a good program that is teaching her good basics, she will probably be fine and there is no need worry about elite until she gets closer to age 10/11 and Level 9. If at that juncture, she appears to have the talent, shows the desire and you have the willingness, you have some decisions to make.
 
Bella's Mom Im sorry if I offended you, that was not my intent.

Thank you for your apology. I wasn't offended. I really am a live and let live person. I fully appreciate how each family has specific challenges and gifts that they work with to meet all of their goals. And that each family has unique circumstances that affect what goals they set.

I think it is wonderful that some families can get all of the pieces to click to meet the goals and I sympathize with those who can't get it to work. But I appreciate the diversity of humanity and this appreciation extends way beyond gymnastics.

For my gymmie, elite probably is a pipe dream. And when I say pipe dream I mean a lofty goal that few people achieve. I don't mean it in a negative way at all. But Bella is not naturally flexible, she is incredibly strong willed which I found out last week apparently makes her difficult to coach. In addition, I am a single mom, teacher so the money won't be there for extensive training at an elite gym. Her father is very unsupportive of gym so that's another strike against her. Those are my circumstances. So yeah, I let her play "Olympics" and encourage her when she talks about how she can't wait to be an elite gymnast. And I try not to rain on her parade, because I know someday I really will have to. :-(

I hope if I have caused an negative emotion in anyone because of my poor choice of phrase, that this clears up my meaning. I admire any gymnast who has that level of talent and dedication to achieve a level such a small percentage of gymnasts achieve.
 
Thank you to people who have shared their insight and perspectives. I feel like perhaps I should explain the background behind my question [and perhaps I should have done that upfront].

Our daughter is now 11, and she competed L9 this past winter/spring. We had a family conflict with her state meet [To avoid us being labeled completely unsupportive parents she started out the 2010-2011 season competing L8 and we intended her to compete L8 for an entire year. There would not have been a family conflict with the L8 state meet.] so that eliminated any championship season for her. I think perhaps that makes it hard to know where she really is but we also think that perhaps it all worked out for the best. I would say she had a strong L9 season [but I’m her mom and I love her---her floor routine warms my heart even if she can’t really sell it to the judges yet] and she is probably going to be ready to compete L10 with 3 strong events and another shot at selling her floor routine. [She has the tumbling that she should be ready to compete well at L10 but artistry is another matter.]

In spite of an initially awkward relationship with the current Head Coach at her gym we’re finally at least in the same chapter of the same book and we probably have moments of reading the same paragraph. I can now see that although his approach this winter was a bit short sighted it was motivated by a desire to do what he thought was best for her. He has come to realize and acknowledge that he wasn’t understanding critical pieces of her specific situation before and he regrets some of the comments he made. At this point we are reasonably comfortable that her current gym is a good fit for her.

However, she is not at a gym that trains elite and they are very open about this. They do train through L10 and seem to do that well. Her coach has helped girls achieve medals at L10 nationals and college scholarships. I think for the most part what her gym does they do well. However, they don’t do elite so another thing they try to do is facilitate a transition for kids who have that desire and at least appear that they might have the tools to back that up. In her coach’s opinion she is reaching a point where that could be something to consider.

I’m not sure that this really is something to consider though. She is currently training about 15 hrs/week and the nephrologist is wary about her exceeding that. Her pediatrician shares those concerns. I make it a point to officially not practice medicine at home I can’t completely forget everything I’ve learned in medical school and beyond and I also have similar concerns. So we certainly won’t be going against his advice and I can’t even see us seeking out a second opinion just to see if another physician would have another perspective because in this case that feels more like it would be doctor shopping than ensuring we were on the right path [the former is rarely helpful, the latter certainly can be]. So it seems like we’re looking at another year of 15 hrs/week and in the past my belief was that pretty much eliminated any consideration for elite considerations.

I still think it does. The difference is that she has started to show some interest in actually going further with gymnastics which is something we weren’t hearing before. As parents we want to nurture her dreams but her health will have to always be our first priority. I don’t want to prematurely quash her dreams but I also want to be realistic with her. I think it is important to empower our kids to pursue their dreams but it is sometimes just as important to help them understand when it is time to accept life as it is and thrive within that.
 
she is 1 year away from being able to do anything at the elite level. you can come in at 12. but 13 is the most common. so, say she went to 18 hours a week. and not knowing her medical condition. 3 more hours a week of beginning the learning of the compulsories. it's not that much more strenuous. she how she does. see if any symptoms show up that concern you and her doctor. then go from there.

this way you get a head start. if the compulsories can be learned by 13, and verified thru testing, that's the end of that. then she can focus on optionals. 18 hours consistent can provide for a reasonable elite experience. it can be done. proper rest, nutrition, conditioning & recovery between work out sessions could mean like 24 hours to someone else where time can be wasted just due to all the hours that most kids spend in gyms anyway.

then there will be puberty, hormones, etc; i have know way of knowing how the changes that takes place may affect her medical condition or disease. maybe it won't at all? and something that can me monitored?? and is it something that will improve after puberty and further distance is between whatever happened then and where she might be 4 years from now???

if a kid is driven, and the opportunity presents itself then you go after it. the window is very small and 5 years at best to see how she might handle what she needs. and i'm saying this having seen kids at the elite level with cancer, MS, 1 kidney, heart conditions, scoliosis and a whole basket of other medical conditions. it never occurred to me at those times that those kids were anything but athletes.

and as coaches know...where there's a will there's a way. doing the elite level with a perfect biological specimen is easy. and boring too. there truly is nothing like a little adversity in the way of becoming a gymnast no matter the level.:)

and i do believe in parents being aware of their child's station in life. sounds like you got the edge up!
 
Honestly, I don't think posters "come down" on anyone for posting that their child is training for elite if they are 11 years old with Level 9/10 skills and in an elite program. Nor do I think anyone wants to rain on the parade of any gymnast who has elite aspirations. What I have seen is posters who will just try to bring some realism into the picture when people post about their 6 year olds training 25 hours a week for elite.

The best advice I ever got about elite was that as long as your dd is in a good program that is teaching her good basics, she will probably be fine and there is no need worry about elite until she gets closer to age 10/11 and Level 9. If at that juncture, she appears to have the talent, shows the desire and you have the willingness, you have some decisions to make.

These words are so spot on, I couldn't of said them any better!
 
Well in Australia its a whole different ball game. We select our elites when they are 4-5 years old and place them in separate developmental classes at their gyms that focus on developing the key area's. Strength, flexibility, body shaping, aerial awareness, tumbling, ballet and so on and they compete in the International development program against other highly talented youngsters in the IDP 1-3 program as well as completing the annual IDEAL skill testing to make sure they are learning skills at a fast enough rate.

At around age 8 (or much younger depending on your state) they try out for a place at a HPC (High performance centre) and train huge hours, compete in the international development program. Are tested for IDEAL skills by the national coordinator. You can't make the decision here at 11 or 12 or 13.
 
Well in Australia its a whole different ball game. We select our elites when they are 4-5 years old and place them in separate developmental classes at their gyms that focus on developing the key area's. Strength, flexibility, body shaping, aerial awareness, tumbling, ballet and so on and they compete in the International development program against other highly talented youngsters in the IDP 1-3 program as well as completing the annual IDEAL skill testing to make sure they are learning skills at a fast enough rate.

At around age 8 (or much younger depending on your state) they try out for a place at a HPC (High performance centre) and train huge hours, compete in the international development program. Are tested for IDEAL skills by the national coordinator. You can't make the decision here at 11 or 12 or 13.
 

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