Coach's Methods On Learning New Skills

[Shelovesthebars]

Our gyms philosophy on learning new skills is to basically explain it to the girls and let them try it. If there body shapes are incorrect, the girls have to go to the floor and mimic the body shape that is most important in the skill ei: hollow for hollow back hip circle. The girls are expetcted to make the correction with little or no spotting.
I think sometimes if the coach just spotted them the first time they are trying to learn a new skill, it might make the process faster. I do realize however that the gymnasts must learn by trial and error and do the skills many times to figure them out.
My daughter is 5 and is learning but recieves MINIMAL spotting at best.
Is this typical in a preteam/level 4 environment?

 

[Linsul]

Hmm That is hard to answer in a general way. Are you talking about one station in a circuit? On bars especially it's easy to design a bunch of drills for a certain skill and have the coaches station be the one where they try the full skill. In regards to that method, myself and the coaches I know do spot at first. Having a tactile sense of where a kid is at does wonders for helping them if they need it. It helps me too...I wouldn't let a gymnast try a skill solo until I felt they were doing the right things at the right time in a spot. At the pre team and compulsory levels especially the girls are still learning shapes, position, and how those can dramatically improve/destroy a skill. Spotting is a must in my opinion so they can learn the feel of the position they're looking for. Solo repetition without necessary body awareness or confidence is just opening the door to bad habits, spotting is a lot easier in comparison!

Edit for clarification: On bars, if I choose not to spot a skill that isn't proficient, it's usually a timing issue and not a positional one. For instance: if the shape through a back hip circle isn't correct, I spot. If the gymnast has good shape through the skill but pikes through the top of the cast to rush the skill, I watch and verbally correct. They get 3 tries in that case, then I spot. The decision to spot or not is really situational.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

I am definately referring to a new skill in general but I used the bar example because this seems to be what the girls struggle the most with. When the girls are asked to try a new skill, it seems that they are asked to try it without being shown with a spot how it should feel. My daughter eventually will get it because she is a hard worker but some girls just fall apart. It seems to me like a little more "hands on" instrution could go a long way. This gym does have a good program in all levels but I wonder how much better it could even be. Sometimes my 5 year old doesn't seem to understand what the coach is saying and I have to explain when we are at home. I do understand the body shapes (former gymnast with 2 former gymnasts) so maybe that is an advantage for her. Don't worry I am not coaching at home, just clarifying what the coach is looking for.

 

[Linsul]

Yeah I totally see what you're saying, I was trying to see it from both sides and failed I think lol. I'm a proponent of spotting, but it varies by gym or coach. My last gym was more of a sink or swim type, I was getting told constantly to have the girls do full routines even if their skills weren't competition ready. I learned to time my spot happiness based on who was there to watch the rotation. The gym I'm at now is far more spot heavy at the same levels. We do more spotting of skills with a higher expectation on conditioning and drill independence. They are usually drilling for both skills they're practicing and ones they aren't attempting yet. Both gyms do well in competition, but the one I'm at now does better fwiw. I think spotting at early levels is essential as it establishes position firmly and is more likely to establish good solo habits faster.

 

[marie83]

I think it is a personal thing and what works for one gymnast isn't going to work for every gymnast.

In an ideal world, this would be my perfect teaching method:

Gymnasts watch a perfect demonstration of the skill from different angles.
Gymnasts do some specific conditioning and are told why they are doing it.
Gymnasts do part of the skill, spotted, and even perhaps held in certain positions and asked to try to remember what it feels like.
Gymnasts do whole skill spotted (hundreds!)
Where appropriate gymnasts do part of skill alone (this isn't possible for all skills)
Gymnasts do whole skill unsupported

All the time, the gymnasts should continue to do the specific conditioning, and perhaps watch more demonstrations. The coach should give them important information only and ask them questions such as 'where was your head during that attempt? Where should it have been? OR Was that the correct position for your head? etc etc.

With the method above you cover most learning methods:

Those who learn best by watching
Those who learn best by doing
Those who learn best by problem solving
Those who learn best by listening

_________________________________________________________

Having said all of that, its not always possible to do some of it.
In our gym we don't have any gymnasts who can yurchenko vault, so when it comes to teaching that for the first time, Videos are really going to be our friend! None of our gymnasts will have seen one in the gym although some will know what they are from watching youtube etc.

My gymnasts are currently learning metal bar giants: So far I've had one of the older girls demonstrate, they've done lots of specific conditioning, lots of swinging, and I've given them one thing to think about at a time. I've also asked them a lot about what they see on the way down, maybe to give them a visual pointer on when to kick. At the moment, every giant has been supported and shapes have been corrected. I've been teaching the girls giants for just over a week and they can almost do them now. I'm hoping by the end of next week they'll have them (got a weekend off now otherwise I'd have said this weekend!)

Anyway, sorry for rambling on and on, Gold star if you got to the end!
Marie

 

[Shelovesthebars]

The coach is very good about making verbal corrections about things like where your head should be, where your hands should be etc... No complaints there. Where I see a huge deficiency is when learning a new skill they are not shown how it should feel initially. I am wondering if the coaches are so used to working with higher level gymnasts that they forget that some of these girls aren't even in kindergarten yet. I really do appreciate the concept of not overspotting but I really believe skills would be learned more readily and correctly if the gymnast was initially shown how a new skill should feel first. My daughter doesn't really have the benefit of seeing someone do the skill first as she is the 'demonstrator".

 

[dancengym]

I am with you shelovesthebars! My 9 year old just somewhat "complained/informed" me about the manner in which she was learning new skills. She is just told to do a skill for the first time. And after she does it, her coaches explain to her what she did wrong and maybe after a few more tries spots her. I find it is a tough subject to discuss with the coaches since I think many may get offended. Also, I do not know what the reasoning is behind each technique of teaching/coaching. But common sense tells me, as well as has been confirmed by other posters, that spotting seems to get them to their goals quicker, safer and with less bad habits. Another coach once told me that if after 2 or 3 tries, the gymnast still does not get the skill or correction of the skil, he will usually look for other means to get his directions/message across so that gymnast will understand him. Finding a good coach, good gym is the key. I am still searching.

 

[lilgymmie7]

I just asked my DD how her coaches teach new and all skills. She said from time to time they do spot her if she doesn't "get it", but usually they tape the girls doing the skill and have each gymnast watch how they themselves performed the skill. She said they are also shown how it should look if done correctly from the beginning. I've seen it done with the optional girls and now DD says they do it with the level 5/6 as well. Her coaches also coach the higher level optional teams as well. They do quite well at meets, so it works. Spotting is kept to a minimum at DD's gym.

 

[dancengym]

Sounds like a great way to teach new skills. At meets, I videotape my daughter and she sees what she is doing. Sometimes my daughter is convinced she is doing a skill perfectly when in fact she really isn't. And the best way I've found to help her out is by actually showing her what she is doing. Unfortunately, our gym does not have this luxury.

 

[10.0]

I think it has been discussed on here somewhere. I like the idea of shaping not spotting. I want the gymnast to know how the body positions should feel to make the skill possible and work on it in layers, if a girl does not have a nice tight hollow cast she will not have a back hip circle or at least a good one. I don't mind "spotting" a few so that the gymnast gets the idea and I don't mind standing by incase something goes amiss but I see a lot of overly heavy spotting girls especially in the compulsory levels they need to learn correct technique and strenght and throwing them around the bar or what ever other piece of equiptment is not going to acomplish that. I have subed for coaches at times and had girls who literly used MY muscles the entire time to do their whole routine. Also with the harder skills if the gymnat depends too much on that spot she will equate that with the skill being scary and will not do it without a spot, example back walkovers on beam. I belive in drills for that, lots of them and moving up slowly, building confidence. Thats my theroy anyways.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

10.0 - You hit what I was trying to say on the head when you said shaping. I guess that is what I was trying to get across in my post but couldn't think of how to phrase it. "Spotting" or holding the body in the shape it needs to be in to feel the positions the gymnasts needs to be in order to do the skill correctly is what I am looking for. That is what is not happening enough.
We don't have videotaping of the skills but that would be helpful.
Our gym really won't let a gymnast perform a skill they are not ready for with or without a spot. They are great about doing drills that progress toward a skill ei.. back walkover on beam.
My concern is teaching the younger ones the proper shapes in a way that they can understand them without them getting overly confused or frustrated.

 

[nevertooold]

If I remember, you are at a gym with kids on national team.

It seems they have found a method that works for them in producing top level athletes. It would not hurt to ask one of the coaches what their reasoning or philosophy in regards to spotting is. I'm sure many here would love to hear their answer. But if they are producing top level gymnasts it sounds like for THEM using more verbal cues and less hands on spotting is working.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Nevertoold- I would say that their method is definately working. I am just wondering if it is typical for a preteam/level 4. My daghter is doing well and having fun in their program too so it is working for her overall. It has just something that came to a head this week when one of the girls only lasted a few minutes in the class and then left in tears over it. This method works for some but not for others so I am just wondering if training methods are similiar or are they adapted to each gymnasts learning style? I am curious so I will ask the coach this week and see what she has to say about it. I will let you know if she has a minute to talk to me about it. My daughter really loves this gym so it must be working for her
Funny enough when we my daughter has had substitute coaches for class, she has always immediately informed them that she does NOT NEED SPOTTED! It is something that she has learned from her time at this gym. Her confidence in herself and her abilities is solid as a rock.

 

[nevertooold]

No in my experience it is not that typical at that age/level. I would say the most typical is to spot for positioning and also to spot for safety on first attempts at new skills.

 

[Megley]

At our gym, most spotting occurs on bars. Even the higher level girls are occasionally spotted for shapes in their free hips and cast handstands, as well as on release moves like overshoots. My dd is learning giants and I can't imagine her being left to get that skill on her own on the regular bar without at least some spotting for shapes and safety. I am thankful the coach is there with his hand on her wrist to be sure she doesn't fly off the bar.