Competing before having all the skills / remembering the routines?

[pihlajat]

Hi!

I have a couple of girls who have competed in level B for 1-2 years and they have already scored 32.0 AA which is a required score to move up a level. They have also done a couple of meets last year after getting that score and did very well...

Well, the first competition is coming on 10th December (our seasons are a little bit different here) and all the other girls in team are going to compete in level B (they haven's scored 32.0 AA). The girls have to pay a license to compete in season 2011-2012 and they can't buy a license for half a year. So their parents think that the girls should compete on 10th December.

The thing is that the girls are not quite ready. Yes, they have all the skills and they almost remember their routines (i started to teach them a few weeks ago). Yes, there is three more weeks to practice but I'm not sure if they can polish their routines and be ready to perform them confidently. On the other hand, who cares? We are not going there to win anything, just to have fun and get competition experience. But I'm still a little bit scared that I'll have to spot them on bars (they just got their baby giants) and I'm scared that the vault resi will be too high for them (my tiniest gymnast is like 125cm and the resi is 110cm!) at competition. They have done pretty vaults at our gym but the resi has been just like 90-100cm high. And their cartwheels and leaps on beam are not quite ready and they fall pretty often.

Would it be good for them to compete one competition this year and get some experience in level C? Or should we wait until next year and compete in level B even if they think it's boring to do exactly the same routines again even if they have been practicing level C skills all the fall season? I'm also worried about scores. If they'll score under 6 at every event they may feel like they are very bad even if they're not... But the scoring is very hard here (falling is a 1.0 and if you get spotted the skill will not be counted at all and there will be up to 2.5 points deduction ). I have to work as a judge there in level C so I wouldn't be there to cheer them up and help them at all...

Have you / your gymnast / your child ever competed before having all the skills or when the routines haven't been quite ready yet? Do you regret it? Any other thoughts?

 

[ponisto]

From coaching point of view I would hold them in level B.

However, I understand that the girls may be eager to move up to level C. As a judge you know that they scores will most probably be level I in the Finnish system (if the girls are still having troubles in beam, vault and also bars, the scoring is pretty tough). What is the best way to motivate your team? Move them up with low scores or hold them back with better scores? Of cource you need to be sure that they can perform the vault safely with the competition resi.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I think if the girls (and parents) are prepped and know that scores won't be high because they don't have the routines down yet, that competing before they are quite ready would be okay--good experience for them. I know you said the parents want the girls to compete, but do the girls want to compete?

My youngest DD was a level 4 this past summer. Started in June and had her first competition (and only) in August. She was totally NOT read--got spotted on floor, skipped bars entirely and fell twice on beam. She wasn't upset at all about her low scores. She just loved competing with her team. (we had to make her quit due to money issues and gymnastics not being her first sport--she still does it with the middle school though!).

 

[sportsmommy]

My dd first L5 meet is this weekend. She has all the skills except cartwheel on beam. She has a lot of cleaning up still to do. I wasn't sure about her competing but I left it up to her and she wants to go. So we are going...

**sportsmommy**

 

[bogwoppit]

It happens all the time here. We are not under a compulsory system like the US is and therefore coaches have more latitude in making individual choices. SOmetimes it is better for a kid to move forward, rather than being held back over one or two skills. It is supposed to be about fun after all and I imagine, like my kids, the girls are not headed for Elite, they just want to compete and have fun doing it.

If they are ready to compete and understand the impact of missing skills on the score, then go for it.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

Both of my daughters have competed without 1 or more necessary skills... but they have also competed with all skills and still scored low. I think how much it "bothers" a gymnast (parents feelings aside) has to do with their age and their personality. My oldest (now 14) was the one who was more ill-prepared not having proper skills for Level 7, then pushed up to L8 still missing some 7 skills - she was 11-13 years old during this time and after a while she got very discouraged. My youngest was 6 when she competed Level 4, and although she had all her skills and knew her routines, her form was not good and she scored very low in her first 2 meets..eventually with time and experience, she worked her way up, loving every minute of it!

As others have said, as long as the girls understand and accept how they will do competing C vs. B, then have fun!

 

[gymmutti]

My oldest dd has been competing all season as a level 5 without a solid carthweel on beam (she's never landed one during competition and only lands them about 10% of the time but that is slowly improving). However, she's loved competing and even scored an 8.15 on beam with the cartwheel fall last meet. She has been prepared for low scores and knows that she will most certainly compete level 5 next year as well. This has been great experience for her as it is the first level of competition for her gym. As long as the girls know their scores may be dramatically lower than last season and they are still comfortable - I think they should be allowed to compete.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I did in a few cases, and there are certain skills that I will consider forgiveable if the kid is "close enough." One great example is a kip -- both for my boys and my girls, as long as their close to the kip, I'll allow them to compete level 5 even if they don't have it. Quite often the adrenaline of a meet is enough to push them over the edge.

I have a level 6 boy this year who doesn't have his moy on parallel bars -- because he keeps accidentally turning them over into giants. This is not really something I see as a problem, so there's no need to hold him back and fix it.

 

[Aussie_coach]

If winning is not the goal, help kids set other goals. Being their first comp then remembering the routines could be the goal. Or getting out there and being brave enough to do it. Or give them a score goal you know they can achieve e, ie we aim to score over 4.0 on each apparatus. Explain that other girls have competed before so don't compare scores but that getting over 4.0 in a first comp is great.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i did in a few cases, and there are certain skills that i will consider forgiveable if the kid is "close enough." one great example is a kip -- both for my boys and my girls, as long as their close to the kip, i'll allow them to compete level 5 even if they don't have it. Quite often the adrenaline of a meet is enough to push them over the edge.

I have a level 6 boy this year who doesn't have his moy on parallel bars -- because he keeps accidentally turning them over into giants. This is not really something i see as a problem, so there's no need to hold him back and fix it.

word!...............

 

[pihlajat]

Thanks for a great advice!

In Finland the judges don't show the exact scores. There is always at least 0.5 points marginal so if you get 8.35 it's shown as 8-8.5. If you get 4.9 it's shown as UNDER 6.0 and if you get 6.1 it's shown as 6-7. I think this is good especially for beginners and little children because they don't know if the score was 0.9 or 5.9... And actually they don't care! They always think it was like 5.8...!

Their AA scores are not shown either, just a "category" where the AA score is. There is 6 or 7 categories and the lowest one is just UNDER 28.0. The girls have been there when they started competing in level B and it wasn't a big deal. Second time they were in categories II or III and it was a big step for them and they were happy... So the scores are not important. They have never won anything so they don't expect it at all. In here just three best girls AA will get a medal so there is no winners or losers in 4 different events like in other countries.

The biggest problem is me! Like I said I'm a judge and I have judged level C several times. And I have thought like hundred times that "Oh no no this wasn't pretty, she definitely isn't ready yet! She fell three times and her split jumps and scale position weren't counted because of her under 90 degrees opened legs... And well, the score is 3.5...". And I decided that I won't let my girls compete if they are not ready : D But now I think like differently... They are not going to Olympics, they're just having fun doing gymnastics. If we wait until they are completely ready it may take a year and then they may feel themselves too old or just got boring... And there must be a first competition in level C some day, and the first competition isn't supposed to be fantastic, is it?

 

[flipper's fan]

It really depends on the kinds of kids you are coaching. A judge's point of view is very different. Some kids thrive on being challenged and do not mind getting low scores as long as they are moving on. Other kids are driven by perfection and need for validation and recognition- that type of gymnast will be uncomfotrtable or embarassed with a low score. You know your gymnasts- try to think about it from their point of view.

 

[ponisto]

The Finnish scoring system with categories is really hard and it can be demotivating some times.

If I were you, I would look at your girls performance from a judge's point of view. If your girls would in your opinion score below 6 only in one (or max two) event but they would perform a lot better in the other events, they could still compete in level C. In the end they would anyway have category I AA score i.e. the lowest possible (as you know, just one <6 means that the AA is below I), but they could still be happy about their good performace in some areas. If you think that there is a risk that they could score <6 in all four events, I would not let them compete in C - it would really be unfair and not motivating at all.