Parents What to look for in a new gym?

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CLgym

Proud Parent
Tomorrow my DD will be evaluated at a new gym because we are considering a change (details re: our situation are in a different thread but, in a nut shell, DD is being directed from pre team to an Xcel program rather than JO at her current gym despite having an expressed interest in JO). I have no gymnastics background, and have only been a gym parent for about a year. What should I be looking for tomorrow with respect to the new gym?

Also, I pulled State meet results for a couple of levels and was wondering whether I should be concerned that JO gymnasts from the new gym generally don't place anywhere near as high as the JO girls at the current gym? Of course, my DD would not be a JO gymnast at the current gym; but I was wondering if meet results were an important factor to consider anyway because they reflect on quality as a whole?? (New gym does not have Xcel, so I couldn't do any comparison of those programs.)

Any tips re: what to look for tomorrow are appreciated. Thanks.
 
Consider this:

Old gym clearly doesn't allow everyone to compete in their JO program, and likely just selects the cream of the crop.

New gym seems to be more open to more kids. It seems likely to me that some of the kids (like your daughter) that might compete for the new gym may not score as well as the "cream of the crop" kids in the old gym and a lot of the kids that your new gym has competing would have been directed to XCEL at old gym. That's okay. Wouldn't you rather be at a gym that does the best for your daughter versus one that wouldn't give her a chance?
 
My gym doesn't have the highest scorers, but one thing I'm very proud of is that they give every girl the chance! (Another local gym has some amazing scores, but upon looking further, their L3s and L4s do multiple years even after scoring 37s for a full first season. Not sure my daughter would have been given much opportunity there.)
 
I also want to clarify, my daughter is an XCEL gymnast and I think the program is great. I wasn't knocking it in any way, it's just that I coach as well and I have kids scoring 37+s and kids scoring 34s. I'm glad that I've given my 33 kids the opportunity to compete, but it seems unfair for someone to judge my program based on that when other gyms wouldn't allow them to compete at all, for various reasons. Does that make sense?
 
CL -

As I am sure you have read on here, communication within a gym is very, very important. How coaches communicate with the gymnasts as well as the bill-paying parents can be a telling tale. You most likely won't be able to get a sense of that with just one evaluation session.

Frankly, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in meet scores as those can go up and down like an elevator. Remember, a "state" meet is just one more meet on the long road of gymnastics and looking at those scores in isolation can give the wrong impression.

If this next gym is going to be THE one for your dd for awhile, I would be looking at how the girls practice. Is there enough equipment? Are there enough coaches? Are girls standing around or are they on task doing their workout? Does the gym have the right kind of equipment to train from compulsory thru high level optionals? Do they have pits to train the big flipping skills? Is there adequate spotting equipment? Do things look safe? All of these things are going to help you reach the all-important trust point where you trust the coaches with your dd.

Good Luck.
 
Number one thing I would look for is are the kids happy. I would stay and sit in the viewing area while your daughter is there. You can often learn a lot by just listening to the conversation.
 
Hi I saw your other post and was not able to comment in it for some reason. The minimum age required to compete Level 3 is six years old, so telling you that you're daughter was too old was completely ridiculous! Glad you are looking at a new gym!
 
A couple of things I'd personally look for:

-is the office staff friendly? Do they answer questions/get help when they can't?
-does the gym appear well cared for?
-does the equipment look like it is well cared for?
-how do coaches interact with the kids?
-do the kids, on the whole, seem happy? (though an occasional cry out of frustration is common)
-are there foam pits?
-what is the highest level group they compete?
-are there move up requirements? How is that handled?
-any required summer camps, etc?
-pro shop?
-are snacks/waters available for purchase?
-do most team parents seem to stay or drop off? Is this the gym that starts at level 4? If so, I'd say that if most parents are staying above 5 or so, it may be a red flag.
-is there free wifi for when you do stay????? Please???

I'd also talk to any team stream parents you can find. It's likely that if they hang around often, they'll approach YOU! They'll scope out your DD. We're nosy creatures. ;) (for preteam it's not unheard of for parents to stay, depending on ages/length of class). Anyway, don't be shy in asking they what they do/don't like about the place. That's said, don't place 100% confidence in one persons' experience, though. There are always exceptions. In DD's gym while there are frustrations, most are overall happy from what I can tell... But that one mom?!? Hates EVERYTHING! (But yet she's still there.....)

Good luck. And if I remember correctly and am not confused, this is less hours right? I wouldn't worry. In our old gym, DD did 16 hours. With the switch, she now currently goes 11, but oh boy, does she work that tush off with those reduced hours!

Sorry for typos - typing quickly on touch screen!
 
Also, I pulled State meet results for a couple of levels and was wondering whether I should be concerned that JO gymnasts from the new gym generally don't place anywhere near as high as the JO girls at the current gym? Of course, my DD would not be a JO gymnast at the current gym; but I was wondering if meet results were an important factor to consider anyway because they reflect on quality as a whole?? (New gym does not have Xcel, so I couldn't do any comparison of those programs.)

Any tips re: what to look for tomorrow are appreciated. Thanks.


I think you have answered your own question. Clearly your current gym is making decisions that affect JO placement.
How the potential new gym places is somewhat irrelevant. You already know the current gym is not going to place you daughter in JO. My daughter places well in lower level JO, usually on the podium if not top of podium. But that is not what is important. Is she challenged, are the kids nice and working together, is she working hard. This is way more important.

I think you first need to decide what is important to your daughter and your family.
And chose a gym that aligns with that.

For us hours and flexible days are important.
Time; is the training time maximized. We were at a gym that required more hours but those hours, the kids had a lot of down time. New gym they do more in 2 hours then 4 at the old gym.

Are the coaches respectful, they don't have to be huggy, but are they firm but respectful of the kids. Do the kids seem happy and excited to be there. Smiles do the kids have smiles. Do they encourage the kids to support each other and get along.

And for the specifics what lco said
 
Well, we had our evaluation today at "gym 2" and received an offer to participate in the highest level developmental team (the one right before L4). Hours and times would work OK (a little less than 8 hrs/week). Gym looked well cared for. Yes to foam pit, pro shop, and free wifi. It was crowded and a bit hard to figure out all of the classes/teams that were going on -- but gymnasts seemed happy. And I really liked the developmental team coach. She recently moved to "gym 2" from a huge, successful gym in our area where she was head of the pre team / developmental team program there. She is working on creating a similar program at "gym 2" (with a focus on form and conditioning) to feed the JO program.

Here's the thing though --- the girls from this gym do seem to score low. Very low. I pulled results from another big meet (L4, L6 and L8) and found the "gym 2" girls were almost always near the bottom of the pack -- except for a couple of L6 girls who finished quite high. I know everyone said not to judge based on scores. But, in another thread about repeating a level, posters seemed to warn against gyms whose girls score consistently low. So I guess I'm confused -- is it a deal breaker? or not?
 
There's probably some truth to both. It really depends on the goals of the gym and the goals of your DD. Does the gym attempt perfection and miss it? Are they trying to get them to upper optionals quickly?

How low is low? And how good are the others teams?

If DD won't likely be invited to JO at her current gym, it may be your best option. If your DD really excels at the new gym, and she outgrows the program, you could probably shop around then. Not ideal... But it may be a good compromise. There's a lot of ground to cover from now to even level 4.

Level 4 is a tough level to score well first try. I imagine that's worse for girls with no competitive experience. Does this gym often repeat kids? Do other gyms? Did some of the higher scoring gyms have the girls compete a season or two of level 3? That can make a huge difference.

Do they compete level 5? What about 7, 9, and 10? Level 6 can be hit or miss - there's a wide range of skills. We're the girls competing cartwheels or BHS on beam? Baby Giants or Giants?

And level 8 was my DD's gyms' lowest placing team this year. So much plays into it.

If girls are spending years at preteam and repeating level 4 and scoring low, I'd be concerned. Likewise for other levels. Beyond that, it's really hard to say and you have to use your instincts.

Perhaps you could pm dunno and ask his opinion of he gym? Have you done that? He knows so many people.

Just my very humble .02. Probably not worth much.

Good luck.
 
If your daughter is not going to be put on her gyms team she won't be scoring at all on a JO level currently. And you are looking at scores with a different coach. This coach came from a "successful" gym. what were their scores.

But again, scores are relative. Some it is the gym, some the actual girls. We had a girl move our gym. She is scoring better at our gym but not as high as a lot of the girls here. She is doing better for her but not stellar.

If you stay where you are its Xcel, move its JO. You have a decision to make. How old is your daughter ? How hard worker is she? What are her goals?
 
I agree with the above. You are not only choosing between two gyms, you are choosing between Xcel and JO. We were in a very similar situation two years ago. DD was on Xcel team at a very successful/high scoring/high placing gym, but they would not let her switch to JO. We went to another gym, where they girls are not placing that high, but DD was given a chance to compete JO, and she's been very happy there so far, even if not getting many medals.
When you look at the scores (I assume on mymeetscores), click on each girl, and see how she progressed. I bet the girls at gym 2 are doing one level per year, if not skipping levels. Then click on some of the girls placing high at the same meet. I guarantee most of them are repeating this level, or had repeated a previous level.
It's just different philosophies. At our current gym they are moving the girls through compulsory levels as soon as possible. The only move-up condition is getting all or almost all skills for the next level. Other gyms prefer to keep the girls at a level they can be successful, while uptraining for the next level, which is not bad either, just different. They all even out eventually when they reach higher levels.
As @l.c.o said, I would only be concerned if the girls repeating levels and still scoring low. That could mean that something's wrong with the coaching. Although, they hired a new coach from a successful gym, so they are trying to change/improve things, also not a bad sign.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide!
 
Lots of good advice here. I definitely,personally, would say staying at old gym, where you DD seems to have been relegated to Xcel at a very early stage in her gym life, would only work for you if that's what she wanted and she felt great about it. Nothing wrong with Xcel - nothing wrong with rec gymnastics either. But it is a path that she will be stuck on if she stays.

Of course her "old" gym scores better - they don't let anyone who doesn't look like they have elite potential on the team. Based upon that I would assume they also keep kids back levels until they are scoring high, it wouldn't make sense otherwise to weed them out in first grade!!! Scores really mean only a little in the scheme of things...

Rather than comparing to old gym, how does new gym seem to do compared to the rest of the area? How old are the kids per level (would give you an idea of training- if there are lots of really young ones then they may be pushing through to optionals...which can mean lower compulsory scores overall while up training - OR too much pressure on young bodies; If there are lots of older girls then that may mean they are more accepting of "average" gymnasts staying in the sport - a good thing overall but less competitive as well. How do the 10 year old L5s do, or the 12 year old L7s....13 year old L8s....the kids in the middle of the age differential....).

I would be concerned if much of the team doesn't make it to state each year - or of course if you see multiple kids not hitting mandated move up scores (31/34) in multiple meets/seasons...in general kids shouldn't be competing a level if they can't easily get to 31 in compulsories - even at less competitive gyms - and a second year as a higher level optional without 34s generally is a less prepared gymnast - or injuries, or fear - but on average when I have seen kids consistently score this low I am worried about safety as they get to higher level skills - there is a gym in town that falls into this category - and they really aren't well trained - usually have to go back to basics if they transfer to other gyms - simple things like where they put their hands for cartwheels on floor even needing to be corrected - in kids who were competing L7 at the poor gym...the other 2 gyms in town (now merged into one) have always had a few high scoring kids in each level and mostly middle of the road scorers - with the rare kid bottom of the pack at state...both gyms with young ones and olders, although the one that "survived" has less young ones as move up standards are harder...and that's what I'd expect from a good but inclusive gym team - a few stars, most kids "average" and a few weaker gymnasts but all able to make it to state most years if at the appropriate level...

It may seem that my standards are low to many - but again, sounds like this kid has already been "told" they aren't what some would consider high level potential...so the best gym would be a place where kids are happy and stick with the sport, are safely trained as fast or slow as it takes for each kid, and respected by team mates and coaches. Kids change so much as they grow - I'm sure that the real "stars" in big competitive gyms in competitive regions are earmarked early - but a winning young L7 can struggle at level 8 (DD) or a late starting older kid explode with a few years under their belt and maturity (DS)....the ideal gym will be patient with the struggling kid and help them get the most out of the sport they can while allowing the exploding kid to progress quickly....while being a place both kinds of kids want to be!
 
I'm sorry if I missed something in this conversation or the other thread, but is gym 2 the only other option?

I only say this because seeing more than one additional option will be able to give you more perspective. It is very hard to compare one to another when you have such stark contrast. And this seems like two extremes. Like gracyomalley stated, a well rounded program with a few high scoring kids a bunch in the middle and showing inclusivity with some that ride the bottom seems a great fit for your situation, giving her the opportunity to flourish no matter where her level of talent or abilities may take her. But that may just not be an option.

I would be a bit worried if the whole team is running at the bottom of the pack at meets. With that said, another thing to look at with the scores is what types of meets are they attending and are you looking at. This can effect things quite a bit.

We have many different kinds of gyms in our area. Our gym really only attends larger invitationals most of the time. Due to the make up of our team, we may make up the entire lower age groups or have no competition at the optional levels at a small meet. At a big invitational we will have top three placing teams but the competition is more evenly distributed with the other large teams in town.

Then you have smaller teams and less competitive teams and they will attend many of these smaller meets and only a couple of big invitationals. If you look at the smaller meets their teams are all competing evenly against each other but put them in a big invitational and their kids are at the bottom of the pack, especially if they get put in a session with several of the more competitive programs.

My point is scores/placements can be relative to session and meet size and location as well. So make sure you are getting the big picture. I also completely agree that looking at the progression of some girls both at the new gym and surrounding gyms is a good idea. Who is repeating and who is skipping? Are they doing well at certain levels and not others etc. This can give you a better idea of how thing stack up. Also, a changing program can go through a slump and/or look deceivingly low. It sounds like they are trying to improve their team with this new coach and a development program. Scores can be misleading here as well and may improve dramatically as the newer kids get a better foundation under them. I have seen this happen, a team go from bottom of the pack to top of the pack, but it takes time. You are starting out now so it may be totally fine as things progress through the years.

If as a team they are generally not able to score a good portion of their girls in the 34s regularly then I would be concerned about safety and quality of training even in a less competitive program. But, if this is your only option and you really want JO then choice seems made to me. But, if these are the only two options, I might wonder if a good quality xcel program may not be a better option than a poor JO program. Not that going to JO in the future would be an option because it is definitely a choice but if the options long term are limited then safe environment with quality coaching would win for me.

Good luck with your decision.
 
Wow -- I'm not sure I'm ready for that level of score/data analysis. However, I did check and the current gym's L4 girls (there are only 3) all competed for two years at L4, while "gym 2" girls (looks like there might be 11) are all first year L4. As far as qualifying for State (it is AA 33 or higher here), it appears only 5 of "gym 2's" girls qualified for State this year (the highest finish was 9th place). Pretty wide age range represented. No L5 this year at "gym 2" -- but L6, L7 and L8 seem to have fared better then the L4 girls (all qualified for State). No girls competing above L8 this year at "gym 2" although they did have at least one L10 last year.

The comment that most concerned me related to proper technique. I wish I was better able to assess this!

Also probably worth mentioning that DD REALLY wants to go to "gym 2" -- and that may ultimately be the deciding factor for us. And, if I take it just one step at a time, I did feel good about the developmental team coach/program for the upcoming year.
 
Wow -- I'm not sure I'm ready for that level of score/data analysis. However, I did check and the current gym's L4 girls (there are only 3) all competed for two years at L4, while "gym 2" girls (looks like there might be 11) are all first year L4. .

And how well did your current gyms L4s do their FIRST year at L4?
It's a very common level to repeat. Many of the girls at DDs gym repeated the level this year (fall). They did very well this year. Some already scored out of Level 5. One is about to go to L7 regionals.
 
@thefellowsmom -- Besides the current gym, there are only two other options within a reasonable drive. The one I've been calling "gym 2" is the one I just described. There is also "gym 3" -- I spoke with them on the phone, but based on our discussion they felt DD would likely be placed on their rec team because she does not have all of her L3 skills yet (with no guarantee of movement to JO). Basically the same situation as the current gym (Xcel with no guarantee of movement). Also, "gym 3" does not currently have a pre-team for which DD could be considered (lost pre-team coach, ended program, and have not replaced but might in future). In addition, "Gym 3" also mentioned that DD might be getting too old for their HC. I detailed more of my saga in an earlier thread. But your thought that a good quality Xcel program could be the "better" choice is exactly one that I'm struggling with...

@domalley -- The current gym L4 girls still did better their first year than "gym 2" girls as a whole (but not nearly as good as they did their second year). They went from about AA34-35 to AA37-38.

Would it be rude to just ask "gym 2" about it?? I have contact information from the developmental team coach -- might I just ask her what's going on with the L4 girls? In a very nice way, of course!
 
@domalley -- The current gym L4 girls still did better their first year than "gym 2" girls as a whole (but not nearly as good as they did their second year). They went from about AA34-35 to AA37-38.

Having girls score higher in their first year also doesn't mean anything. Probably they just keep them longer on the pre-team, so they are better prepared. But having girls who scored 34-35 repeat the level, might indicate that the gym is more concerned with the placements\gym reputation, than the needs of each individual gymnast.
 
Honestly, it sounds like gym 2 might be a good fit for your family. But you need to assume that your daughter is not necessarily going to win there. As long as it's safe and fun, that's fine. If it's unsafe that's another story, so definitely check into that aspect carefully.

AA under 34 is very low in compulsories. Indicates at best performance with major form and confidence breaks. AA under 32-33 indicates missing major elements and the coach doesn't realize that they should not compete without major elements, or serious technique and form deficits. But, it is what it is. Some kids are not capable of scoring higher than that. I don't believe this means they shouldn't be in gymnastics, but I never let a kid compete a level without having the majors. That's just the way it works. When a whole team is scoring below 34, I generally wonder if the coach knows what they're doing.

But it sounds like they are trying to increase the profile of their team. It might be totally different in 5 years. Also, if it's safe and fun, then the kids will be happy and will eventually progress or move to Xcel. Not the end of the world to have bent legs on a back walkover, but I would make sure the problem isn't kids doing back head springs while the coaches are using Twitter.
 

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