WAG Elite Gym Contracts

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windydays

Proud Parent
Starting a new thread from the Chow thread.

I had never heard of having a year or longer contract with any gym. I copied this from Geddert Twistars' policy information with regards to Level 10 Athletes:

"Once an athlete has attained the status of Level 10, there has been significant time and effort invested into their gymnastics. For this reason we transition from a 30 day notice to a full one year notice of departure (kind of like joining most health clubs). IF an athlete retires from the sport, this commitment will be waived, thus it only applies should they decide to take our years of training and contributions to another gymnastics club within the state of Michigan."

Is this something new in the gymnastics world? Has it always been this way? I honestly cannot imagine signing a contract like this. Has anyone on this board signed a contract like this. Thoughts...
 
I remember reading this a while ago myself and thinking it was very well said. To take a child to level 10 takes an enormous investment from a gym both emotionally and financially, they have obviously been burned before.
 
I hope they consider the many variables to make that stick. While I see and understand the need to make that provision, it just is too long a notice of departure that it feels like he is trapping his gymnasts.

On a side note, I hear Geddert has a lot of troubles with the law. His time coaching at meets are said to be numbered.
 
The enforceability of such a contract would depend on the terms and the state law under which it's written. What is the gym binding itself to do? Gymgal's point is a good one.
 
I don't know. what about a case like that of Simone Biles and her coach Aimee Boorman? I do see the coaches side of this -- but isn't that just the risk of doing business? Gymnasts -- in some ways especially the elite gymnasts -- have to be free to do what is in their own best interest without being tethered to a specific gym.
I see both sides of this and am really interested in hearing more of what everyone thinks.
 
There is a difference between a 1yr contract and a 1 yr notice. I don't think most gymnast at that level have issue with commitment, but there is no way I'd give notice of departure a full year in advance! If things are bad I would not have my kid stick it out another year, and I would NOT let my kid stay in his gym (notorious for poor treatment verbally) a year after telling him we are leaving. No way. I don't think you should be able to ask more than that they stay through end if season....and I wouldn't give notice til end of season either.
If he wants a 1 yr notice then is he giving these girls 1 yr notices to coaching and equipment changes? I highly doubt it.
 
'Is this something new in the gymnastics world? Has it always been this way?'
I don't know about new or always, but I first remember contracts like that about 15 years ago. I wouldn't operate without it. I admit it sounds weird from the outside, but trust me, you put that much time, work, thought, and effort into an athlete just to have them go to what they believe is the greener pasture, no thanks. To have a successful relationship, you need to have a solid commitment from the athlete, parents, and coaches. Once an athlete reaches that level and higher, there can be a real change in attitude. The parents can become very unreasonable and demanding saying 'if we don't get this or that, so and so down the road would love to have my Suzie.' You need to know everyday that 'Suzy' and her parents are going to be there, or you are just setting yourself up for failure. Check out the Hamm story, which is only one of dozens.......hundreds. At L10 and above, certain organizations (who I won't mention) will even encourage parents and athletes to move to one of the 'elite mills', where they believe they have a better track record. I'm sorry, but if they won't commit to me, I won't commit to them. It's sad that a word or handshake is no longer someone's bond........
 
'Is this something new in the gymnastics world? Has it always been this way?'
I don't know about new or always, but I first remember contracts like that about 15 years ago. I wouldn't operate without it. I admit it sounds weird from the outside, but trust me, you put that much time, work, thought, and effort into an athlete just to have them go to what they believe is the greener pasture, no thanks. To have a successful relationship, you need to have a solid commitment from the athlete, parents, and coaches. Once an athlete reaches that level and higher, there can be a real change in attitude. The parents can become very unreasonable and demanding saying 'if we don't get this or that, so and so down the road would love to have my Suzie.' You need to know everyday that 'Suzy' and her parents are going to be there, or you are just setting yourself up for failure. Check out the Hamm story, which is only one of dozens.......hundreds. At L10 and above, certain organizations (who I won't mention) will even encourage parents and athletes to move to one of the 'elite mills', where they believe they have a better track record. I'm sorry, but if they won't commit to me, I won't commit to them. It's sad that a word or handshake is no longer someone's bond........

And again, I'll state that there is a difference between a 1 yr contract to stay (usually through season) and a 1 year notice. No problem with the 1 yr commitment....no way in hell I'd give a 1 yr notice
 
And again, I'll state that there is a difference between a 1 yr contract to stay (usually through season) and a 1 year notice. No problem with the 1 yr commitment....no way in hell I'd give a 1 yr notice
good point. Geddert is asking for one year notice which is ridiculous. Chow, on the other hand, was apparently asking for an extended commitment -- which is far more reasonable, although also has problems from the gymnasts' side and also would not really be enforceable (except to collect damages I think limited to fees)
 
gymsanity, in general, what are your terms? Like flippin said there is a difference in a 1yr commitment (finish the season) and 1yr notice. And what conditions void this contract? a move of a certain distance, coach changes, significant gym changes? also, what would you expect from the famiky who chooses to leave anyway - no competing for a year? continue paying tuition for the length of the contract? just trying to get a sense of what it all means.

what i really don't get about these types if contracts is that they really serve no purpose in the end given that I can't see any gym wanting to put up with a parent or gymnast who is past ready to leave and likely toxic to the team.
 
what i really don't get about these types if contracts is that they really serve no purpose in the end given that I can't see any gym wanting to put up with a parent or gymnast who is past ready to leave and likely toxic to the team.

Yes, keeping a family at the gym for an entire year where they will be unhappy is no good for anyone. As the year wears on, everyone will know that they are leaving and the ore frustrated the kid becomes the more they will voice why they are unhappy. In the end no one wins here. Seems counterproductive to all involved.
Plus, for geddert. Let's just say that yes, he has some girls raised up through his program. But, many of his upper levels are transplants from other gyms. So does a transplant L10 still have to sign his contract? After all he didn't put yrs into their training, he just got them. You bet...it's not about the commitment with him, it's about the money. As I said in another thread , when he first started with this contract stuff it was about making sure he got a percentage if any money the gymnast earned within 2 yr period of leaving his gym...including national team funding, scholarships, endorsements. So
 
Gymnastics is a private, club sport. Most club sports require a commitment of a year/season. A Volleyball club will hold tryouts in the spring/summer, have families sign a contract and pay the training/competition fees for the coming season/year. They may let you spread the total season costs over a few payments.

Gumnastics club teams can also have these types of contracts. Have families sign and commit to a team for the year with a total training cost if xxx, or allow families to spread the payments over 12 months.(ie monthly tuition)

Gymnastics is very expensive so most cannot afford to pay a full year of training costs at the start of a season, which is why most pay monthly.
 
Gymnastics is a private, club sport. Most club sports require a commitment of a year/season. A Volleyball club will hold tryouts in the spring/summer, have families sign a contract and pay the training/competition fees for the coming season/year. They may let you spread the total season costs over a few payments.
Soccer does this as well, and you need written release from your current club in order to switch to another club midseason. That said, I've never heard of a club holding a player that wanted out. It does, however, probably serve to minimize the number of in season transfers. People that are mildly dissatisfied won't put in the effort, so the only ones switching are the ones truly committed to leave.
 
gymsanity, in general, what are your terms? Like flippin said there is a difference in a 1yr commitment (finish the season) and 1yr notice. And what conditions void this contract? a move of a certain distance, coach changes, significant gym changes? also, what would you expect from the famiky who chooses to leave anyway - no competing for a year? continue paying tuition for the length of the contract? just trying to get a sense of what it all means.

what i really don't get about these types if contracts is that they really serve no purpose in the end given that I can't see any gym wanting to put up with a parent or gymnast who is past ready to leave and likely toxic to the team.
I didn't read John's contract that closely. I'm not sure what he is thinking in the 1 year notice part. Once I know someone is getting ready to leave, I give them their 1 minute notice! ;) It has to be that way in order to stop any further negative, or hard feelings. They usually don't go on their own, and try and take anyone and everyone that will listen with them. I don't work with elites any longer, but this is part of the reason. We felt (and were) being extorted by the parents. Our contract was lenient and many outs if that is truly what they wanted. It was more of a good faith sort of agreement that they would train with us for the next year, and we agreed to do anything and everything possible to ensure the greatest success for their child. There was a financial penalty, and agreement to go outside of our area, etc. But there were sooo many exclusions like injuries, quitting gym all together, moving for non gym purposes, family financial hardships, etc. that they could leave pretty much penalty free if they so chose. And the truth of the matter is that I don't want to coach anyone that doesn't want to be coached, no matter what level! ;)
 
I don't know about new or always, but I first remember contracts like that about 15 years ago. I wouldn't operate without it. I admit it sounds weird from the outside, but trust me, you put that much time, work, thought, and effort into an athlete just to have them go to what they believe is the greener pasture, no thanks. To have a successful relationship, you need to have a solid commitment from the athlete, parents, and coaches. I'm sorry, but if they won't commit to me, I won't commit to them.

Exactly….and well said

what i really don't get about these types if contracts is that they really serve no purpose in the end given that I can't see any gym wanting to put up with a parent or gymnast who is past ready to leave and likely toxic to the team.

I don't think the purpose is to ACTUALLY keep an unhappy athlete at your gym for another year regardless of their feelings. No one wants that. It is more so that the family takes the commitment seriously and is not so easily lured into the "grass is greener" type thinking.

On a side note, I hear Geddert has a lot of troubles with the law. His time coaching at meets are said to be numbered.

4thelove, what legal things are you talking about? I've never heard anything like that.

There is a difference between a 1yr contract and a 1 yr notice. I don't think most gymnast at that level have issue with commitment, but there is no way I'd give notice of departure a full year in advance! If things are bad I would not have my kid stick it out another year, and I would NOT let my kid stay in his gym (notorious for poor treatment verbally) a year after telling him we are leaving. No way. I don't think you should be able to ask more than that they stay through end if season....and I wouldn't give notice til end of season either.
If he wants a 1 yr notice then is he giving these girls 1 yr notices to coaching and equipment changes? I highly doubt it.

Eek…why the hate towards Geddert?? I don't work there or have any affiliation with him, but he is an absolutely tremendous coach who has done great things for USAG and the training of coaches. His athletes are phenomenal. I've been to his gym several times for training purposes and heard nothing but positive verbal treatment towards all of the athletes. Not sure where you heard such a rumor.

Plus, for geddert. Let's just say that yes, he has some girls raised up through his program. But, many of his upper levels are transplants from other gyms. So does a transplant L10 still have to sign his contract? After all he didn't put yrs into their training, he just got them. You bet...it's not about the commitment with him, it's about the money. As I said in another thread , when he first started with this contract stuff it was about making sure he got a percentage if any money the gymnast earned within 2 yr period of leaving his gym...including national team funding, scholarships, endorsements. So

Sounds like you have a personal issue with Geddert's. Jordyn Wieber grew up in his gym, and their newest elite, Delanie Harkness, is not a transplant either. They obviously know how to coach! I wouldn't say that that many of his upper levels came from other gyms at high levels - plus, once you get to a certain level in gymnastics, your gym choices become slimmer as you need to be somewhere with the coaching ability and equipment to to do Level 9 and up. Regardless, as I said above, the 1 yr commitment is more for making sure the family is committed and not ready to jump ship at the first tough moment for greener grass. It forces them to actually talk to the coaches and figure out what the problem is, which I'm sure oftentimes fixes the problem. Not sure how you figure that it's all about money….if any of us coaches wanted money, we be in a different profession.
 
Regardless, as I said above, the 1 yr commitment is more for making sure the family is committed and not ready to jump ship at the first tough moment for greener grass. It forces them to actually talk to the coaches and figure out what the problem is, which I'm sure oftentimes fixes the problem. Not sure how you figure that it's all about money….if any of us coaches wanted money, we be in a different profession.

More really good points.
 
I looked up the rumors about Geddert and they seem to stem from GGMB offshoot blogs and originated a year ago. Like literally exactly a year ago in July 2013 they were saying his days were numbered and it was gonna come out soon. I think there would have been some action by now so I don't really know how believable it is.
 

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