WAG Fear-tell me the truth

[GymBeeMom]

If a kid deals with fear issues regularly as an 8 year old, is she doomed to always be a "scared" gymnast or is it common for them to mature through the "coping with fears" process?

Can you guess what we have been dealing with??? She has been "stuck" on a few scary skills for longer than I have seen her be "stuck" due to fear in the past. I want to know if this could be a deal breaker long term or if it really is a normal issue (even for the girls that go into the highest levels of gymnastics) that they learn to better deal with as they get older...

The truth please.

 

[coachmolly]

I don't think it's anything to worry too much about at this point. If I remember correctly your DD is around level 7? That's where fears really seem to hit for the first time for a lot of kids, so likely her first bout with such an experience. I think it's very possible that she'll better learn to deal with them as she progresses, though all gymnasts, even at the highest levels, certainly do deal with fears and mental blocks!
Best wishes and hopefully she'll be able to overcome them soon!

 

[sglemon]

Fear is normal. Being scared of new skills is normal. How your DD handles her fear will determine her future in the sport.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

I have no answers for you because my dd is in the same boat with regard to fears right now. She is also 8. I am at the point where we don't even mention bars at all. I am leaving it to her and her coaches. What I thought was encouragement wasn't being perceived that way by my dd, so now when I pick her up I have a couple of standard questions:

- Did you have fun?
- What was the best part of today?
- What events did you practice today?
- Are you hungry?

The answer to the first and last question are inevitably yes.

It used to be beam that she was scared of though. Then all of a sudden something clicked there... I am anticipating the same thing to happen with bars someday...

Hang in there is the best advice I can give. And no pressure on your dd.

 

[newtogymnastics]

I have an 8 year old DD as well. She's training Level 7 and my once fearless daughter is now stressing about the skills. She was the kid who would try a back tuck on the high beam and not even flinch 2 years ago. I used to be worried she wasn't scared enough . . .

She is clearly frustrated with herself. I just hope she finds a way to cope soon.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I have an 8 year old DD as well. She's training Level 7 and my once fearless daughter is now stressing about the skills. She was the kid who would try a back tuck on the high beam and not even flinch 2 years ago. I used to be worried she wasn't scared enough . . .

She is clearly frustrated with herself. I just hope she finds a way to cope soon.

and add manage. it's a part of the process.

 

[iwannacoach]

You never know how big the fear issue will be until it starts to become a constant thing. Kids go through changes faster than a slick politician, so it may be a brief generalized thing, a brief specific thing, a long term limit to her moving through the progressions, or...... a vestibular issue where she's unable to process motion to the degree needed to know which way is up while she's upside down, and feel comfortable with specific skills unique to her vestibular development.

The onset of this problem can be a result of a nearly imperceptible growth spurt that leaves them, in a sense, as the occupants of a body they're unfamiliar with. It seems from my experience (no studies or scientific research) the kids most susceptible are those with a sharp set of senses that enabled their quick pace of learning in the first place, probably because those sharp senses feel the body's changes more profoundly. There can be, and usually is, growth in their vestibular abilities, and over time there should be an improvement, but the extent of that is a variable.

I've seen kids who impressed me with their learning ability suddenly hit a "brick wall" and even regress, being unable to do make themselves do skills that had been easily learned and performed well. The most common of these are skills that require going backward through an upside down position, like back walkovers, back handsprings, and back salto skills.

What baffles the kids, parents, and some of the coaches, is the child's ability to work comfortably with skills far more difficult than those they can't force themselves through, or are hesitant to do. That can create a huge problem for the child when everyone around them wants to help, because logic tells them they're talented enough to work through the problem. This results in people around them encouraging them, and sometimes dictating that they just have to figure it out.....pay more attention to what they're doing....work harder...believe in themselves....stop crying and go for it.....and it's the worst well intentioned attempt at remedy I can think of.

The best remedy is to accept this as a temporary limit, and hold off on those skills until their vestibular system catches up, while working on their strengths. Being patient allows the kids to move forward, once the problem subsides, with renewed enthusiasm and energy, and they will eventually catch up to where their team mates are....sometimes in a rapid sequence of success.

So sure, it could be just a fear issue that your daughter will work through successfully over time as one small success leads to the next in a confidence building process, or it could be a long term issue that's taken form at some other time and place during her first formative years. Or it could be the vestibular thing. So just let her keep plugging along in a healthy gym environment, and it will sort itself out over time with a little help from the adults in her life.

 

[GymBeeMom]

Thanks everyone. Growing up is hard to do

iwannacoach-she grew 2 inches over the summer.

coach molly: yes she is level 7 and working on TOPS/HOPEs skills at the same time. It's all the backward stuff that is scaring her( BHS on high beam, BHS in her yurchenko, flyaway out of her giants)-and she was able to do all 3 of these before, so they are "lost" skills.

 

[Ingwe]

I don't have much advise but wanted to share my daughter's story with you for some encouragment. She was in L7 when she started working on Yurchenkos (a bit older then your dd, mine was in 5th grade) She did them fine for the whole summer leading into L8. Then one day she just couldn't do the backhandspring part. She literally refused to do it. This went on for months. Finally she was switched to Tsuks and that is what she competed all of last season without any problems. She is now a L9 and finally 2.5 years later she is doing her yurchenkos. I really think that she just needed to mature a bit and work through it. Even funnier, until recently she would only do yurchenkos if a certain coach was on vault that day. If it was another coach, then nope, she wasn't going. It's not like she is being spotted at all but she needed the mental security of this one particular coach. I am telling you these gymnasts can drive you batty.

Hang in there, I am sure that your daughter will work through her fears and come out on the other side an even stronger gymnast.

 

[gardenia01]

If a kid deals with fear issues regularly as an 8 year old, is she doomed to always be a "scared" gymnast or is it common for them to mature through the "coping with fears" process?

I want to know if this could be a deal breaker long term or if it really is a normal issue (even for the girls that go into the highest levels of gymnastics) that they learn to better deal with as they get older...

The truth please.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to know whether it will be a long term issue or not. I've seen fear drive talented gymnasts out of the sport all together, but also seen girls who struggle with it learn to push through and overcome it.
The most talented gymnast in our gym has never had a fear issue. She is a 12 year old doing her second year of Level 10. One of her teammates, who is also extremely talented, has struggled with fear and meet anxiety. She has done the Doc Ali program and repeated Level 9 last year to gain confidence. I think she will do great this year at Level 10, so maybe she is a good example of a kid who has had fears but learned to deal with them. My dd struggled with her bhs/bhs on high beam last year and it was hard to watch. The only thing I can say is that pressure makes things worse. I tried to be as supportive as I could, didn't talk to her about it unless she wanted me to and let her coaches deal with it. It came and went all season and I have no idea whether it will be okay this season or not. Guess I'll find out soon!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks everyone. Growing up is hard to do

iwannacoach-she grew 2 inches over the summer.

coach molly: yes she is level 7 and working on TOPS/HOPEs skills at the same time. It's all the backward stuff that is scaring her( BHS on high beam, BHS in her yurchenko, flyaway out of her giants)-and she was able to do all 3 of these before, so they are "lost" skills.

vestibular. this "system" will mature over time and it will get better.

 

[MaryA]

I need a vestibular refresher... is this system linked to growth? Is it "mature" at about the same time a person reaches physical maturity? Does practicing help? For example, with my DD's BHS on high beam, assuming that the issue is vestibular, will she get it sooner if she keeps practicing it, or does it not make any difference because she won't be able to do it till her vestibular system allows her to do it? Are fear issues always, or almost always, vestibular? Or can fear just be fear?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

please refer to my original post on this as it answers these questions. i'd put it here but don't know how.

 

[vagymmomma]

I need a vestibular refresher... is this system linked to growth? Is it "mature" at about the same time a person reaches physical maturity? Does practicing help? For example, with my DD's BHS on high beam, assuming that the issue is vestibular, will she get it sooner if she keeps practicing it, or does it not make any difference because she won't be able to do it till her vestibular system allows her to do it? Are fear issues always, or almost always, vestibular? Or can fear just be fear?

Mary - I laughed a little to think what someone not on this website would think of your questions. "can fear just be fear?" -- it brought back memories of Walt Whitman and the transcendental movement of writers. We do operate in a crazy little world. Who knew there was such a thing as vestibular till Dr. Dunno educated us? Now it's a regular part of our vocabulary!

 

[thefellowsmom]

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/must-read/31302-back-tumbling-fear-issues-help-please-2.html

This is the thread where dunno explains it. His post is on page two.

 

[iwannacoach]

Allow me......I'd comment on it's spot on-ed-ness, but doubt that's neccessary as you know this stuff inside and out.

The vestibular system, which contributes to our balance and our sense of spatial orientation, is the sensory system that provides the dominant input about movement and equilibrioception. Together with the cochlea, a part of the auditory system, it constitutes the labyrinth of the inner ear, situated in the vestibulum in the inner ear (Figure 1). As our movements consist of rotations and translations, the vestibular system comprises two components: the semicircular canal system, which indicate rotational movements; and the otoliths, which indicate linear accelerations. The vestibular system sends signals primarily to the neural structures that control our eye movements, and to the muscles that keep us upright. The projections to the former provide the anatomical basis of the vestibulo-ocular reflex, which is required for clear vision; and the projections to the muscles that control our posture are necessary to keep us upright.

i took this from a med site with the simplest explanation. this is our system of all things balance. the 2 important components are those that measure "rotational movements" & "linear accelerations" and as they relate to signals that are sent to neural structures that control our eye movements.

a couple of examples: a dad runs fast down the grocery aisle with their child in the cart facing forward. You've all seen this. the child usually screams, squeals and laughs from the "linear" (horizontal) speed that the child's vestibular system measures and sends to the eyes.

now turn the child facing the dad and do the same thing. you've all seen this also but may have never wondered why facing backward does not illicit the same response. in this instance, the child's vestibular system can not measure linear speed forward, hence no response as in the 1st example.

yet in either example you could find the child screaming in fear or screaming in joy and laughter no matter which direction you place the child in the cart.

next: Nasa and Air Force pilot schools. pilots flunk out regularly. when they achieve certain speeds they pass out. for some it is when they reach certain speeds coupled with "rolling". pilots have to be able to do both without passing out. some peoples vestibular systems can not handle the vestibular systems sensory input of over stimulation.

next: the old 'back seat driver' syndrome. you are driving the car @ 55 mph. your passenger says to slow down "your going to fast!" yet another passenger says "geez...ya think you can get us to the church on time? yer drivin like a granny!" and no offense to grannies. but when the passenger takes over the driving, they may well speed up or slow down compared to what the 1st driver did. this is all because of one's vestibular system. and whether they held the steering wheel (proprioception or 'feel' of the wheel) or not. depending where you sit (optic sensory system connected to the vestibular system) or not.

next: the roller coaster. some people get dizzy, throw up and pee themselves. others whoop and holler and can't wait to do it again. the blame falls squarely on one's vestibular system.

these are things that people just take for granted. but how does it translate to diving and gymnastics? and sometimes figure skating?? the vestibular system in human beings vary at/during different times of maturation. just as the body grows and matures to adulthood so does one's vestibular system. along the way, some children have more mature vestibular systems than others. and this includes but are not limited to disablilites that you may not know of or can clearly see.

the simple round off: a child runs forward (linear). the average speed is approx 4 mph. if they perform the round off correctly it will speed up (acceleration) before they hit their feet. they must also 1/4 turn down to the floor and 1/4 turn back up to their feet (rotational). so, it becomes like a math problem. forward run linear speed @ 4 mph>to 1/4 turn to upside down>to 1/4 turn to right side up to the feet= 5-7 mph increase of internal/linear force. the childs vestibular system is taking measurements of all the movement taking place...from the hands and feet being on the floor...and including that paucity of a moment when they are in space.

if you ask 2 children. 1 might state "whew, i was going so fast on my round off i couldn't see anything and that's why i sat down". the other states "geesh, i'm trying to go as fast as i can and i feel like i can't".

but when the coach observes the 1st the coach states "you couldn't have gone any slower if you tried!" and to the 2nd he states "worry not, you're moving fast enough". the coach observes complete opposites to what the kids 'feel'. yet it is the vestibular systems of 2 different children measured differently in a quantitative measurement and 'felt' differently in the kids compared to what the coach sees in the comparative analysis in the 'minds eye' of the coach.

now put in the flip-flop. the 1st child 'senses' that i have to much 'ooomph' (linear speed coupled with rotational force) and "i don't think i will be able to put my hands down on the floor and i might hit my head".

the 2nd child 'senses' that she doesn't have near enough 'ooomph' to "make it over" and "i might land on my head". can you all see the predicament?

now take a 3rd child. a child with an inexplicable but very mature vestibular system. has the worst technique and form that a coach has ever seen. so bad that...the coach won't even let the kid attempt a round off>flip-flop. this child 'senses' that no matter what...i'm not scared of what the other 2 are scared of and i'm going anyway even if my coach yells at me and tells my parents. and you all have seen this kid too in your gym.

you see, everyone calls the 3rd child the "fearless" one. but fearless is a medical misnomer. it really is about what is taking place in the vestibular system of all 3 children. hence, the "backwards problem". it will come and go as the kids mature. sometimes it will present itself once. for some kids it may be several times thru their career. in some it will be really bad and carry on for months. yet in others it lasts a couple of weeks. for some only a back walkover on beam. for most that have immature vestibular systems, it will present for all things going backwards on all events. there is no consistency with the kids...yet the consistency is in the how the individual's vestibular system measures and responds to all of the forces that are being placed upon it.

if parents can accept paying money when they see this problem going nowhere yet their kid loves it, and the coaches are patient during these periods of anxiety and explain it to the kids and parents, i have seen most kids mature thru and outgrow the problem. unfortunately, you can not predict when a child's vestibular system will mature and come in to its own.

to coaches: when you see this problem you now know that it is not due to lack of confidence or the child seeking negative attention or other various sundry statements i've heard over the years from under-educated coaches. the problem is real. speak to other professionals in the medical field.

and to parents: if any of you might be a neurologist...well then...no further explanation is needed, right?



p.s. before you ask... no amount of sports psychology, self help books or hypnotism can readily "cure" this problem.

Last edited by JBS; 10-10-2011 at 09:00 PM.​

 

[GymBeeMom]

This has been informative. Now a twist...she is not afraid to work her back tucks/back layouts on beam. She says she isn't afraid because she won't miss her hands on those skills. Still vestibular? She will do her BHS on middle beam, just not high beam.

Coach stopped letting her work those skills until she gets her basics again (BHS on high beam). HC will not train a tsuk with her because she HAS to do the yurchenko for level 8 with her future training plan in mind.(per coach) Not sure why, since there are other level 8s doing tsuks in our gym. HC also won't allow her to do her FHS on high beam as a replacement for BHS. But I just do as I am told and stay out of "the plan"...

I speculate HC is trying to teach DD to face the fear and be patient rather than run from the skills she is afraid of...

To be clear, she is NOT a level 8 but they uptrain these skills.

 

[MaryA]

I need a vestibular refresher... is this system linked to growth? Is it "mature" at about the same time a person reaches physical maturity? Does practicing help? For example, with my DD's BHS on high beam, assuming that the issue is vestibular, will she get it sooner if she keeps practicing it, or does it not make any difference because she won't be able to do it till her vestibular system allows her to do it? Are fear issues always, or almost always, vestibular? Or can fear just be fear?

Ok, so to be clear, the answers to my questions are, yes, yes (?), no, yes, no?

 

[catou]

Wow that vestibular system information is very interesting!!! I remember being so scared by backward twisting. I would completely freak out in the middle of it. I think I understand why now.

So now to come back to the first post, I'd say many things may affect the length of the gymnast's career. (Let's say, there's no injury or anything that would make her quit). First, the way the coach handles fear. Does he or she recognize it and take it in account? Yes there's a plan, but is she or he willing to adapt it according to the situation? It might be could after some time to train a different skill but of the same value, without forgetting the scary skill. A new successfully realized skill could be a confidence booster, and allow competing with a good start value instead of scratching the event.

Second, I think it depends of the way the gymnast deals with the fear. And how the parents deal with it. Do they push their child? Do they respect him or her...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you must respect the vestibular system if anything at all.