"gymnast leaving" spinoff

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Without going into any specific situation, I have a philosophical/ethical question:

Suppose there is a kid at your gym who has been there for a long time. Suppose they are about to move to another gym which they believe will be better for them, but which you have reason to believe will not.

To what extent is it ethical and professional and acceptable to try to convince them to stick around? If you believe that they are being led to the other gym under false pretenses, to what extent do you say so? Do you say it to the gymnast or the parent?

I think most of us can agree that it is unprofessional to speak ill of a competing gym on general principal. Does it remain unprofessional if everything you say is true?

Most of us coaches see our students as something like family, and would be devastated to lose them, especially if we believe the move is not in their best interest. Is it acceptable to try to talk them out of the move if the only way to do so is to speak negatively about another gym?

Again, I want to avoid discussion of specific situations here, and discuss this on a philosophical level.

 

[gymdog]

I don't think it's unprofessional to have a talk and bring up concerns and possibly things you could do with the gymnast (i.e. attend camps, training clinics, to gain an edge). There is a difference between ad hominem attacks and valid concerns and I think if sincerely presented they can be viewed as such. I think the most humble thing to do would be to present the concerns, say you understand they have their reasons for trying it, and the door is open if it doesn't work out.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

I think it depends on both the age of the gymnast and the relationship you have with the parents.


I consider Pickle's coach from last year to be a friend. And as my friend, I think she's obligated to tell me if she has information that will help me make a decision.


I'm not friendly with her coach this year. But if I were making a change, I think it would be appropriate for her to ask me what I wanted to get out of the new gym and talk to me openly about the status of my daughter.


There are several threads here on CB that talk about questions to ask when looking at a new gym. Some of them include questions I would never have thought to ask.


But, at the end of the day, you are only the coach and they are the parents. Just because you don't think a move is a good idea, doesn't mean that it won't be.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Dunno, the post you just made here was what I specifically stated I wanted kept out of this thread. I have therefore removed it for the time being.

I don't doubt a word of what you're saying about the gym in question, and we may well end up restoring that post to a different hread, but this isn't the place for it. Knock it off.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

no problem. in fairness of honesty it needs to be read by everyone. it's just that kind of fraud that sets me off.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Often if you try to talk them out of it they become disgruntled and feel like their problems are not being taken seriously. Sometimes and gymnast and their family need to try another path just to see if the grass is greener on the other side. If they don't try they will often end up getting frustrated.

I would support them and let them know you care about the family and the child and that you understand if they need to try other things, but at the same time tell them the door is always open for them to return if they are not 100% happy at the new gym. 9 times out of 10 they discover the grass is just as hard to weed on the other side and they will be back. But they will be back with a new appreciation.

 

[gymcoach34]

I do not think anything we say as professionals wil be "heard" if a parent has decided to leave, esp. if they are leaving for the promise of "greener pastures". High level (truly high level-ones that produce multiple high level 10's and elites) programs are pretty rare-so if a parent/gymnast wants to try that route, I give them my blessing. The only thing I tell them is this: with the "high level" comes the high expectations: TOUGH coaching, No vacations or missing workouts, much more $, and very intense emotions from a lot of people.

The only thing you can do if the parent/gymnast comes to you honestly and tells you they are leaving is give the gymnast your blessing & support. Anything else sounds like sour grapes. I would rathe have the parent tell me honestly on the last day, then sneak around and lie to my face.

 

[bookworm]

I mean no disrespect to the coaches on these forums but as a parent who has made the tough decision to change gyms because I thought it would be better, I think you have to realize that sometimes it is going to be better for the gymnast to go to a different gym.

Geoffrey's question of whether you should tell the parents it won't be I guess causes me to say ...well why won't it be? because the program is intense? because the coaches in the next gym have a reputation for driving their gymnasts to tears? ...I guess I would have to hear specifics to the gym. We had heard many a rumor about how my daughter would be treated by the new gym and none of it turned out to be true...

I do agree with posters who do say that the gymnast at a gym for a long time becomes like family but you also have to remember the business side of it...if the gymnast isn't getting what she needs from this particular gym, and this gym has no plans to address the need , then maybe it's time to move to a place that does.

I think the coach that supports his/her gymnast in a move (because it's generally a parent decision and the gymnast often feels conflicted) is the true professional because as one prior poster said, if you leave the door open , they might be back.

 

[bookworm]

The only thing you can do if the parent/gymnast comes to you honestly and tells you they are leaving is give the gymnast your blessing & support. Anything else sounds like sour grapes. I would rathe have the parent tell me honestly on the last day, then sneak around and lie to my face.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this totally but having experienced the wrath of coaches that didn't agree with the move we made (which I had been having major discussions with them for MONTHS and nothing was happening), I don't know that I would tell the coach to their face again. Hopefully this situation won't come up again...

 

[MdGymMom01]

Thank you

I mean no disrespect to the coaches on these forums but as a parent who has made the tough decision to change gyms because I thought it would be better, I think you have to realize that sometimes it is going to be better for the gymnast to go to a different gym.

Geoffrey's question of whether you should tell the parents it won't be I guess causes me to say ...well why won't it be? because the program is intense? because the coaches in the next gym have a reputation for driving their gymnasts to tears? ...I guess I would have to hear specifics to the gym. We had heard many a rumor about how my daughter would be treated by the new gym and none of it turned out to be true...

I do agree with posters who do say that the gymnast at a gym for a long time becomes like family but you also have to remember the business side of it...if the gymnast isn't getting what she needs from this particular gym, and this gym has no plans to address the need , then maybe it's time to move to a place that does.

I think the coach that supports his/her gymnast in a move (because it's generally a parent decision and the gymnast often feels conflicted) is the true professional because as one prior poster said, if you leave the door open , they might be back.

I have to agree with Bookworm because we went through the same thing except with cheerleading. My dd was coached at a cheer gym when she was 6 through 8 and we decided to leave that gym and go to a bigger more well know gym. Well, to say the least the coach was furious and devestated. He said that he was the one "that had molded her and made her what she was" and said that if we went to the new gym she would just be a "number" and stand in the back and do nothing. He said that they do things differently at the new gym and that dd would get "lost in the shuffle". Boy was he WRONG!!!! She flourished at the new gym, became one of the best flyers for her age and level at the new gym and she became more disciplined and broke out of her shell more. So, all in all, that move was very good for my dd. Granted we did switch to gymnastics that next year, but if we had not gone with our instincts, DD would have never gotten the chances that she got at that new gym.

I think coaches mean well by "protecting" their athletes from certain situations and things that "may happen", but sometimes the fears that these coaches have never come to light. I also understand the time and effort that goes into coaching kids but the kids are not "theirs" to own or take credit for. Like teachers that teach kids all year long--they eventually will graduate to the next class. The best thing for the coaches is to hope for is that the lessons and values that they taught their gymnasts will carry them through their adult life and they will look back fondly of that one special coach and smile and say, "He or she was one of the best coaches I had and I learned so much from them."

 

[AGM78910]

The only thing you can do if the parent/gymnast comes to you honestly and tells you they are leaving is give the gymnast your blessing & support. Anything else sounds like sour grapes. I would rathe have the parent tell me honestly on the last day, then sneak around and lie to my face.

I agree with this totally but having experienced the wrath of coaches that didn't agree with the move we made (which I had been having major discussions with them for MONTHS and nothing was happening), I don't know that I would tell the coach to their face again. Hopefully this situation won't come up again...[/QUOTE]

It would have been great if our decision to leave was calmly discussed by the head coach. We also had major discussions with the coaching staff for months before hand and none of the promised changes ever happened. Instead we were screamed at and told that my daughter would come crawling back. (Didn't happen.) It just made the decision to leave that much easier.

 

[mariposa]

I mean no disrespect to the coaches on these forums but as a parent who has made the tough decision to change gyms because I thought it would be better, I think you have to realize that sometimes it is going to be better for the gymnast to go to a different gym.

I totally agree with this statement. We moved our daughter to a different program a year ago and have never looked back. It was an extremely tough decision and I agonized over whether it was the right decision at the time. Her new gym is a better fit for her on so many levels. Her old gym is great for a lot of girls, but it just didn't work for her.

That said, as a parent, by the time the decision was made, it was pretty much made. I had tried discussing the issues with the owner and we had giving plenty of time for changes to be made and it always went back to the same. I researched the program we were moving to as much as I could and went in fully knowing that the mats aren't always bluer. I was taking my daughter to what I thought would be a better coaching situation for her.

The owner of the gym we left tried to convince me to keep her there, but she went about it the wrong way. She badmouthed the program we were taking her to and was very defensive about our reasons for leaving. I know she was upset, but I tried to keep the whole situation as neutral as possible and she turned it sour. As a result, I ended up feeling I would never consider taking her back there. She told me that we would end up being perpetual gym hoppers. That all girls that left her gym either quit or ended up back at her gym and she felt that families should stick to one gym and not be gym hoppers.

I think it depends on the relationship (if any!) that the coaches/owners have with the parents and also how they approach the situation. If they have real concerns, can back it up and keep it informative instead of extremely negative, then I think a parent would be open to at least listening. Usually by the time a parent/gymnast has decided to leave, it has been a long time coming and minds are already made up. It wasn't a decision I took lightly and I was offended by her demeaning remarks and attitude. It took all I could to be polite and I mostly just said again and again, that I made the best decision I could based on the information that I had now.

Interesting topic!

 

[gymster]

I think what you are asking is not a matter of ethics but of respect. Professionally and to maintain respect in the relationship I would advise you to be as compasionate to the parents struggle with this decision. If this gym is what you feel it is they will see it also. The way you deal with this will determine if they return to you or not. If they have looked they are more than likely moving regaurdless. If you want to keep your gymnast Then be supportive and understanding and let them know the door is always open.
She will grow from the change and the parental relationship and trust will not take as long to repair. This will also establish the parents beliefe in you as a coach even more. Otherwise your intentions may be taken as ill-willed or like a politician in a mudslinging contest. It is like the old saying If you love something let it go ... If it comes back to you it is yours! Good Luck! I know it is hard because you have raised this child to what she is today.

 

[cher062]

Without going into any specific situation, I have a philosophical/ethical question:

Suppose there is a kid at your gym who has been there for a long time. Suppose they are about to move to another gym which they believe will be better for them, but which you have reason to believe will not.

To what extent is it ethical and professional and acceptable to try to convince them to stick around? If you believe that they are being led to the other gym under false pretenses, to what extent do you say so? Do you say it to the gymnast or the parent?

I think most of us can agree that it is unprofessional to speak ill of a competing gym on general principal. Does it remain unprofessional if everything you say is true?

Most of us coaches see our students as something like family, and would be devastated to lose them, especially if we believe the move is not in their best interest. Is it acceptable to try to talk them out of the move if the only way to do so is to speak negatively about another gym?

Again, I want to avoid discussion of specific situations here, and discuss this on a philosophical level.

I think that it's the parents decision and as a coach you should leave the door open so they feel comfortable to return if things don't go well. Discussion like "we will miss you and if you decide that gym isn't the right fit and want to come back we would be glad to have you come back"

 

[Pickle's Mom]

What if the problem is bigger? Everyone here is talking about "normal" gym issues (gymanst wants to work at a higher level, gymanst wants more attention for her lower level, family wants better communication, etc.). But what if a coach/owner at the old gym is aware of a larger problem? For example, what if the new gym has serious financial problems or if the athletes are known to use drugs?

A head coach at a gym near us killed commited suicide this year. It was devestating for the kids at the gym (and, of course, his family). A lot of people knew he was in trouble and were trying to help him. If you knew that the coach at the new gym had those types of problems, would you tell the parents of the the girl who was leaving?

 

[gymster]

There are always issues at gym. Not a gym in the country has everything comming up roses. You can tell the parents anything you want But 9 times out of 10 by the time it has come to this your message will not be recieved. and if it is it might not be intrpretated as a good will gesture. However, By letting the family know that you will be there if it doesn't work out and that you respect their decision to seek what is best for their gymnast you can maintain your integrity. You will also be saying I believe in my gym, my staff and my gym associates. That beliefe in turn will pass on to all your gymnast!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

What if there are serious issues at the new gym which we believe will be bad for the kids?

For example, say I know a coach who has been at a number of gyms which produced spectacular gymnasts by luck, not because this coach actually had anything to do with them becoming so spectacular. However she is also psychologically abusive and her students have a tendency to develop eating disorders and other major issues when they get older. (I want to emphasize again that this is all hypothetical)

This information is not something parents would be likely to find out. Would it be acceptable for a coach to tell a parent this if they're thinking about switching gyms?

 

[gymcoach34]

Well, I do not think you can produce spectacular gymnasts by luck! Back to the topic- many kids/parents are able to look the other way with abusive coaching if they feel they are getting the "Best" coaches and are thinking they'll hit the big time. (I'm not saying thats the right thing, I definitely don't think it is, but it does happen.)

All you should say if you know gym B does things differently than you do, but you wish the student the best and move on. Be calm, be professional. Of course, your pride & feelings were hurt, but there is really nothing you can do as a coach.

Perhaps they will be back with a renewed appreciateion of you & your program after experiencing another!

 

[cher062]

What if there are serious issues at the new gym which we believe will be bad for the kids?

For example, say I know a coach who has been at a number of gyms which produced spectacular gymnasts by luck, not because this coach actually had anything to do with them becoming so spectacular. However she is also psychologically abusive and I have her students have a tendency to develop eating disorders and other major issues when they get older. (I want to emphasize again that this is all hypothetical)

This information is not something parents would be likely to find out. Would it be acceptable for a coach to tell a parent this if they're thinking about switching gyms?

I would hope that the parents have done their homework before they put their child there. Just make sure you leave it so the door is open if they find out what you know and want to come back. Making it comfortable to return is the key.

 

[NotAMom]

Think of it this way... A coach is a service provider and like any service provider if a client decides to try out someone else for whatever reason, the only thing the coach can do is to hope for a change of heart. And, to prevent it from happening again, he/she has to convince the parents that their gymnasts are in the best hands.