WAG "gymnastics is for little ones" ?! your opinion

[mandy]

Today I spent almost the whole time in the gym, because my little cousin had training in the morning and in the afternoon
and I waited for her.

As the gym has a big waiting and watching area, I relaxed there, did stuff for uni and watched the different groups train. I watched Level 4 and Level 7 and 8 train and there was one thing I noticed that really astonished me.

At the beginning of each training, all Levels did pretty the same: some plyo, straight jumps, tuck jumps, straddle jumps, handstand walks, some active flex and some light conditioning stuff.
Then they worked on each event for about 20-30 minutes and ended the session with 30 minutes strength and some stretching.

Now what I noticed: Although the higher levels had much more difficult skills of course, the younger ones seem to be much stronger!
When they did conditioning at the beginning, the younger girls could do 5 straddle presses in a row and some of them even went through a straddle planche!!! The older ones just did one press, then stopped, then another one-so not in a row and far from straddle planche!

Same with conditioning at the end... all levels did the same (they have the same coach):
hollows, leg lifts, pull-ups, push-ups, rope-climbs

And they all did the same amount of sets and reps! The older girls actually seem to struggle more with the last reps (some couldn't complete all reps) than the younger ones!

Also, splits and back flexibility seem to be better in little ones.

During a break I had a chat with another,
very nice coach and told him
about that. He said that, gymnastics is just more for "little ones", older or bigger girls are having a harder time doing those bodyweight
movements. He said he has seen many girls going through a straddle planche in their press handstands but has never seen a girl older than 11 do that! Same for press handstands in a row. He said it is a much bigger achievement for a 15+ year old to do a press handstand than for a 7 year old. Most girls can get pretty strong if they have the right training until the first growth spurt sets in. Even tiny adults have a harder time than children.
But this doesn't show how good a gymnast is. He said there are many kids who can do presses easily, but just because they are so tiny.

Is this true? What is your experience?

 

[cbifoja]

I think it's all about the strength to weight ratio.

 

[htimcj]

I agree with cbifoja especially with the press handstands. The strength to weight ratio is really in the little girls favor. It doesn't mean the older girls are fantastic gymnasts it just mean that their strength can show in other areas.

 

[gracyomalley]

Ive absolutely seen this with DD as she goes through puberty - and mind you shes still 4 ft 7in....but her strength to weight ratio has shifted hugely....can still press, but can't rope climb. but her form and dance has blossomed....

 

[profmom]

This raises a question for me though -- I know that guys get a good strength boost from puberty. Don't girls as well, even if it's to a lesser degree and also counterbalanced by changing body structure that may make some gym stuff more difficult for them?

(DD will be late, late, late to puberty, and isn't likely to experience as dramatic a body change as many girls. I remember quite vividly gaining a lot of upper body strength after puberty. I'm kinda hoping that this will be the ace in the hole that enables her to continue progressing in gymnastics.)

 

[mandy]

Thanks for all your replies!

Yes, @profmom, that's what I actually thought. Maybe the girls can't do more presses, but shouldn't they build more muscles after puberty?

When I watched the girls train - as I said before - Level 4 AND Level 8 should both do 3x15 lifts and 2 rope climbs of 16ft, one in straddle, one in pike. They also did 3x8 pull-ups.

That confused me, as I always thoght the higher the level, the harder the exercises!

But the coach said ideally there should be a good strength at L4/5 already, so that the strength increase to Level 7/8 is not THAT visible. A good L5 gymnast should be almost equally strong as a L7/8.
They will get a little stronger anyways by all the cast handstands and free hips later!

 

[profmom]

I can say for sure that many of the L4s and L5s in DD's gym would have trouble with the L8 strength rotation. They would probably also struggle with some elements of the Core I and Core II workouts.

Last summer, DD (then L7) tried to get DS (then L5) to do a watered down Core II workout with her. It . . . did not go well. I tried it as well, and OMG, never again!!!!!

 

[mandy]

I can say for sure that many of the L4s and L5s in DD's gym would have trouble with the L8 strength rotation. They would probably also struggle with some elements of the Core I and Core II workouts.

Last summer, DD (then L7) tried to get DS (then L5) to do a watered down Core II workout with her. It . . . did not go well. I tried it as well, and OMG, never again!!!!!

May I ask you: what is a watered down core workout???

 

[Gymkateer]

Now what I noticed: Although the higher levels had much more difficult skills of course, the younger ones seem to be much stronger!
When they did conditioning at the beginning, the younger girls could do 5 straddle presses in a row and some of them even went through a straddle planche!!! The older ones just did one press, then stopped, then another one-so not in a row and far from straddle planche!

Same with conditioning at the end... all levels did the same (they have the same coach):
hollows, leg lifts, pull-ups, push-ups, rope-climbs

And they all did the same amount of sets and reps! The older girls actually seem to struggle more with the last reps (some couldn't complete all reps) than the younger ones!

Also, splits and back flexibility seem to be better in little ones.

During a break I had a chat with another,
very nice coach and told him
about that. He said that, gymnastics is just more for "little ones", older or bigger girls are having a harder time doing those bodyweight
movements. He said he has seen many girls going through a straddle planche in their press handstands but has never seen a girl older than 11 do that! Same for press handstands in a row. He said it is a much bigger achievement for a 15+ year old to do a press handstand than for a 7 year old. Most girls can get pretty strong if they have the right training until the first growth spurt sets in. Even tiny adults have a harder time than children.
But this doesn't show how good a gymnast is. He said there are many kids who can do presses easily, but just because they are so tiny.

Is this true? What is your experience?

The little ones have a better strength to weight ratio with better flexibility but the older ones are doing harder skills. Gymnastics routines are judged mainly on skills. For me, the takeaway is that little ones are better at conditioning but not necessarily better at gymnastics.

 

[All Chalked Up]

Girls' body fat increases during and post puberty, so little girls have a better body weight to strength ratio. It is also much easier for a 50lb body to complete 20 chinups than a 120lb body!

 

[gymjunkie]

It really depends on how much excess weight they gain during puberty. Some gymnasts have horrible diets and consequently put on a lot of unnecessary weight. They will lose relative strength (ie: relative to their weight), even if they build their actual strength. It's natural to lose flexibility. Kids need a longer amount of time to stretch at the end of practice during and after puberty to combat this. Also, some kids have a huge growth spurt and suddenly grow 6 inches in a single year. They are going to lose a lot of everything as they adjust to their new body. Another factor to consider is that kids are more likely to get injured during puberty. I have seen kids hit puberty and go through a series of injuries. As soon as their wrist is better, their knee is bad. As soon as the knee heals, the ankle is the new problem. Those kids lose strength, because of the limitations imposed by their injuries.

When I have seen kids lose a considerable amount of relative strength after puberty (who are not injured & did not suddenly grow mega inches), it's the ones who are always snacking on sugary/carby garbage foods and/or the kids who get lazy when they hit the teen years (often the same kids). I am sure there are exceptions to this, but I have always been pretty good at predicting who is going to have it rough in puberty by how I see them eating when they are still skinny little kids. I once taught a little kid who always had candy in her mouth and a can of pop in her hand. Her mom's purse was full of candy that she doled out continuously throughout the day to keep her kids happy. Mom always commented on her daughter's hollow leg, and never restricted the junk food and deserts. She had horrible teeth from all of the sugar, but was as skinny as a rail - until she hit puberty. It was as if every piece of candy she had ever eaten as a kid suddenly found a place on her body. She also got very lazy during this time and was always getting caught cheating on conditioning numbers.

On the flip side, we got two new teens this summer who both learned seated press handstands for the first time after doing 2 months of our conditioning, which is very focused on that particular skill. Also this summer, we had a former L10 who had apparently never been able to do one learn it age at 23 (she's a coach now and worked them with the kids). Our older girls are the ones who can press more than once with ankle weights and our younger ones can't. We have more older girls who can climb the rope all the way up without legs than we do younger girls. For most of our conditioning, we have a beginner, intermediate and advanced choice. The kids are supposed to chose the version that is challenging for them, without being impossible. We have more older girls who are on the advanced track than younger girls.

 

[mandy]

Girls' body fat increases during and post puberty, so little girls have a better body weight to strength ratio. It is also much easier for a 50lb body to complete 20 chinups than a 120lb body!

Thanks for the replies!

I totally get it now. Is there something that I can compare the two?
Like if you habe two girls with the same strength, 10 pull-ups for a 50lb girl are the same as 10 for a 120lb?
Or 20 leg lifts are the same like 10?

 

[COz]

Just curious about why you'd want to compare their relative strengths when you can compare the results of this via their skills?

 

[MissLisa]

*NERD ALERT!!!!
^^ Really it's all physics. A girl weighing 50 Ib would have to pull up 50 and therefore requires less 'strength' to do so when comparing a 120 Ib one. The load is larger for the heavier girl. The same goes for leg lifts except the difference in weight would be smaller due to the legs only weighing a portion of the girls total weight. Then with someone bigger and therefore normally taller, there's things like torque and levers to take into account as the further the 'load' is away from the body the more difficult/ heavier the load on the muscles will be. The only way to work out the total work the muscles are actually doing is through complex mathematical equations and biomechanical analysis.

There isn't really a way to quantify it except to know that a heavier girl is going to have to be 'stronger' to complete the same skill etc but at the same time they also have a lot more experience, technique, body awareness and muscle memory so therefore it may not be as essential.

I'm going to stop now.. I get way too excited about these things! I think I should get into more biomechanics, I actually love it! Haha...