Gymnastics news...Thoughts? (Don Peters)

[MdGymMom01]

I do think that discussions like this can be productive and beneficial. But the 13-18 age set is tricky in that the maturity level varies greatly within those ages. I do think that kids under the age of 18 should have their parents consent if they are on a board discussing mature adult material. I personally know that I would not want my almost 13 YO reading something of this nature without me being present to answer any questions that she may have. But most 13-18 YO's on this board are probably not being watched while readin or posting on CB. I would think that discussing topics of this nature could be beneficial to the 13-18 age set but on THEIR level. And because 13-18 is such a wide range, it is a tough call to make.

Maybe making it so that only 16+ can read and comment on posts of this nature?

 

[gymdog]

I strongly feel that things like this were swept under the rug long enough. I think 13-18 year olds are aware of the basic facts of life, and I also think they should see it strongly represented that such a situation is a breach of trust that most adults are against and most adults will help you. Now obviously there are some potential pitfalls but I think most of our membership is civil enough here not to go the name-calling route. I think what is most needed is for all of us to stay mindful of the structure of the topic...i.e. we should discuss "avoiding exploitation" and the possible areas parents and teens need to be aware of to stay safe. And what other coaches need to do when they feel uncomfortable about someone. Obviously...I think we can all agree that nothing like this should happen, and I think it is tough in a small community where people know other people. So I think if we can agree that we aren't the judge and jury and try to avoid pointing fingers, we can discuss the general issue (i.e. the statements that "gymnastics is exploitative" - I think we could have a good discussion about that and avoid insults and such).

I think hiding it...well basically that isn't the way to move forward either. I think as long as we can look forward and recognize we can't change the past, we could have a productive discussion about it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

in light of what i have learned over the last 2 weeks...i'm sick and have had a massive migraine because i know who all the players are.

you're all gonna do what you wanna do. i just don't understand anyone wanting to take the risk of having some of the stuff posted that's out there but not in the news and then having the age group THAT IS here seeing some of that stuff. yeah, i know they will find it anyway...stupid old man me.

p.s. i like this site precisely because it is a nice place to come. yes, kids need to be told about all the evils in the world including vile stuff too. i have always thought discussions of this type are private between parent and child. just me. and i concede that i may be completely wrong in my opinion.

 

[gymdog]

in light of what i have learned over the last 2 weeks...i'm sick and have had a massive migraine becuase i know who all the players are.

you're all gonna do what you wanna do. i just don't understand anyone wanting to take the risk of having some of the stuff posted that's out there but not in the news and then having the age group THAT IS here seeing some of that stuff. yeah, i know they will find it anyway...stupid old man me.

p.s. i like this site precisely because it is a nice place to come. yes, kids need to be told about all the evils in the world including vile stuff too. i have always thought discussions of this type are private between parent and child. just me.

I can empathize with that (not in this particular situation) but I've been there in other situations. I think in a situation those of us that know any details that are "insider" info need to use their own discretion and not post those things publicly. I don't think this is a gossip board and I think the discussion here generally has more integrity than discussions at certain other sites (which is why I don't participate in or even read certain other sites, because it would anger me beyond healthy levels). Basically...no one needs to be getting graphic anyway, and I don't see what other details can be posted without going there really...if it needs to stay PG 13 then the discussion needs to stay pretty structured. I saw this on national sites (I was actually surprised) so if the kids navigated here then they are seeing it through Yahoo and such.

What might be an idea is a sensitive topic like this, for the mods to lock or merge threads and then have the mod start the thread with certain guidelines (or be the second post with certain clear guidelines...i.e. please avoid posting gossip, etc - stick to addressing the question "is gymnastics exploitative? How would you address this?"). Perhaps the subject line can be more clearly noted. For example this subject line doesn't note a sensitive or triggering topic.

 

[maryRS]

As the mother of a pre-teen and teenagers 18 and under, I will say that if you are allowing your child on the computer and on a website like this with a discussion board (totally not passing judgement just stating something that I have found to be true with my kids), you are fooling yourself if you think your child will not encounter such things. I'm not saying this site is that way, but in general the internet is too big a place to think that your child will be sheltered from the world. This is not Webkinz, it's a public discussion board. Parents all have their own level of comfort with respect to their children and every family is going to be different. But if a 13 or 14 year old is on this site, I'd say it's fine, if a parent would not like their child to read something like that, my thinking is they are not on this site, and if they are they are sneaking

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i just hope you may all understand that the last 2 weeks have been 2 of the most depressing 2 weeks of my gymnastics life and my heart is broken. i will not be able to comment or contribute anything at all on this subject matter. i'll be reading though. thank you.

 

[NewtoGym]

Most of us on this site are gymnasts, coaches or parents of gymnasts. We all want what is best for everyone involved in the sport. This is not an isolated incident. My dd's head coach told the team parents how hard she worked to get background checks in place. She also told us that 30 years ago her first job as an assistant coach was to keep the male head coach away from being alone with the young girls. This, unfortunately, is the fact of life in some evil (and hopefully few and far between) incidents. Stories like these can be used as a tool to teach, talk about, and help children in the sport. I hope, and am quite sure, that most of the posters on this board feel the same. Dunno, I can only imagine that it is sickening when you know people involved. My reason for posting this article was not to find out details, not to make seasoned gymnastic coaches uncomfortable, or to debate the innocence of the accused. My purpose was purely educational. Sometimes as parents we might put too much confidence and trust in the people watching our children. And yes, anyone under 18 is a child. It is a good reminder for us all to be diligent and watchful, without being paranoid. That is my 2 cents.

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

I think that if you have a 13 yr old, you should have had a conversation and continue to converse with them about these issues a long time ago, information and awareness is what will keep our kids safe and I believe (but that is just my opinion) that it is a parents job to do this.

i just hope you may all understand that the last 2 weeks have been 2 of the most depressing 2 weeks of my gymnastics life and my heart is broken. i will not be able to comment or contribute anything at all on this subject matter. i'll be reading though.

Dunno, I hope that you are ok and that the coming weeks get easier.

 

[NewtoGym]

Sorry Dunno!

i just hope you may all understand that the last 2 weeks have been 2 of the most depressing 2 weeks of my gymnastics life and my heart is broken. i will not be able to comment or contribute anything at all on this subject matter. i'll be reading though. thank you.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Dunno, I feel for you, and I hope you're doing ok.

I'm a firm believer in freedom of information. I do not believe it would be right for us to prohibit discussion of these things. Besides, do you remember what sort of talk went on in the hallways, bathrooms, and locker rooms when you were 13? This subject covers zero ground that kids that age aren't at least somewhat aware of, and for their own safety kids 13-18 are the ones who most need to be aware of how situations like this can arise.

I think the topic of this article should be fair game, though [mod cap on]if discussion of the article is allowed we will be keeping a very close eye on this thread[mod cap off]

 

[TexasRose]

Personally, I don't see a lot of benefit to discussing this type of topic on here. It's very personal and private and should be addressed by the children's parents. Why don't we just take this as a reminder that we should talk with our kids and make sure they understand what is ok and what isn't. I'm afraid that everyone just throwing out all kinds of information may lead to confusion, especially for the young teens. Also, some of the people that were involved in this incident may visit this site and it would be very painful for them to have to read about it.

If anything we could find a good article addressing how parents could approach this topic with their children and post it on here for everyone to read. It is very easy for this type of topic to get out of control and it can be very emotional for some people. Unless the information is from a credible source- such as a child psychologist- it shouldn't be shared in this setting. (When I say information I'm referring to how to discuss this type of topic with children, not about the incident that happened). Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

 

[gymdog]

i just hope you may all understand that the last 2 weeks have been 2 of the most depressing 2 weeks of my gymnastics life and my heart is broken. i will not be able to comment or contribute anything at all on this subject matter. i'll be reading though. thank you.

I think that's understandable. There has been at least one notable thread I can think of on this board before where I typed up posts and deleted them because I was too close to the situation. I don't feel it was inappropriate for those discussions to be aired though, but they definitely aired things that were less than favorable about specific coaches who were specifically identified (and to be honest, I was completely in agreement so it wasn't a case of not believing). Perhaps if I thought they were completely unsubstantiated then I would have provided that side, but I didn't feel a need to add any of the other specific "insider" information I had -it wouldn't have been relevant to the general spirit of the conversation to pile on.

The sad thing about this is that it's devastating to a lot of people...there are huge emotional repercussions for anyone close to such allegations and information. I hope you will take care of yourself and be able to heal some of those emotional wounds moving forward.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

[mod hat on]

Ok, so we are officially opening the floor to discussion regarding the original article. We will be closely monitoring this thread.

[mod hat off]

 

[mariposa]

i just hope you may all understand that the last 2 weeks have been 2 of the most depressing 2 weeks of my gymnastics life and my heart is broken. i will not be able to comment or contribute anything at all on this subject matter. i'll be reading though. thank you.

I'm sorry, Dunno, I can only imagine how hard it has been, especially if you knew/were close to the parties involved. Very emotionally draining for sure and it is understandable how you would not want to comment/discuss the matter. You share so much of your knowledge and experience with us on all other topics, we are lucky to have you on this board! Hugs to you.

That said, not all parents will discuss this sort of thing with their kids. Many are naive to what can happen, many think their kids just know about it, some don't for cultural reasons, some simply don't care , etc. If a kid has a parent at home to talk to them about these types of things, they are very lucky, but not all are. And some might just learn something from this article/discussion and decide to come forward with their own experiences, or someday end up in this situation and realize it and be able to get out of it, etc. I think that it should definitely be discussed (within reason) on this board.

 

[sportyspice]

Elements of physical, emotional and even sexual abuse have been reported in many sports and I don't believe that this situation is indicative of a "problem in gymnastics". What I do wonder is whether "closed training" would have made this situation easier for the predator. I believe strongly that as a parent I should have the right to turn up to watch my DDs training at any time (preferably without the coach or my DD realising I am there). I do understand the reasoning behind restricting parent's viewing from a training perspective BUT my DDs safety is more important and the only person 100% responsible for that is me. I therefore will occasionally turn up in the middle of training for 10 minutes to watch and then leave. Does this sound too over-protective?

 

[flipper's fan]

It does not sound too overprotective at all. Often the parents are also victims of the predators as well. Parents may be excluded, true, but on other occasions are "romanced" and lulled into believing that whatever they are seeing is ok, normal, necessary. In some sports, including gymnastics, there is a lot of time when a teenager will be out of your sight. There is travel involved and places where oversight is not possible or doesn't seem necessary. People even believe their children are safe because of the presence of teammates or other staff. But the people who engage in these inappropriate relationships know how to keep the secret and go to great lengths to do so.

Our best prevention as parents is to "victim proof" our kids by talking to them, making sure they know what is and is not okay, making them aware and being aware that it doesn't always feel bad or shameful to be approached by a predator, and often feels special or exciting. We need to give our kids information so that they will at least feel conflicted, and recognize that there is something wrong with that type of relationship and that they can come to us and get help. Kids might be led to believe it will be the end of their sports career, no one will believe them, or no other coach will coach them if they make those kinds of accusations.

On a brighter note, this is a pretty rare occurence when you look at the number of people involved involved in the sport and the huge majority of honest concerned and caring coaches out there.

 

[bogwoppit]

I recieved the following email from a very credible source this morning. Until I can discuss this further with the other admins and mods can we please keep discussion on the area of keeping kids safe and away from this actual case. Once the issue has been discussed throughly one of us will post here to let you know here will wish to proceed with the thread.

Thanks, Bog (with ADMIN HAT ON)

From: SPENNY@usagym.org
To: my email removed
CC: kkelly@usagym.org
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:27:11 -0400
Subject: Thanks!

XXXXXXXXXXX,

It is always good to speak with you, and I appreciate your concern over the recent developments.

Here are a few things for you to know, and possibly share, that are a matter of policy for USA Gymnastics:

1. When a third party brings forward a serious instance of misconduct, USA Gymnastics must investigate such accusations. Our rule has always been that the organization will only take disciplinary action in response to an allegation presented by the alleged victims. This obviously requires the involvement of those victims, and a great deal of sensitivity is given to their confidentiality. Upon such notice the investigation becomes focused on those directly involved, not third parties.
2. We often consider our investigations of this type “confidential”, which means that the records and/or proceedings are open only to the people directly involved in the matter. This is the appropriate manner to conduct such affairs. Sometimes, these matters become public and the media becomes engaged. USA Gymnastics does not believe this is in the best interest of the parties nor the sport. Traditionally, however, if the matter is being vetted through the legal process there is no option other than to accept this. This is one of the reasons our bylaws are consistent with the legal process as it applies to misconduct issues.

Lastly, I would encourage you to read the attached letter. It should help to answer basic questions from people pertaining to the matter.

Thank you again for your concern.

Steve

​ ​

Steve Penny President and CEO p. 317.237-5050 | f. 317.237.5069 spenny@usagym.org Indianapolis, IN usagym.orgBegin Here. Go Anywhere

 

[bogwoppit]

This is the mentioned attatched letter.


Attached letter:

September 26, 2011

Yesterday, an article appeared in the Orange County Register alleging the head coach for the women’s team at the 1984 Olympic Games, Don Peters, had inappropriate relationships with a few of his athletes, dating back into the mid-1980s.

Athlete safety is the #1 priority for USA Gymnastics, and inappropriate conduct with athletes is unacceptable. When a grievance is submitted, it is taken seriously and actively investigated. These are sensitive matters, and we are careful and prudent in our approach to addressing them, including any comments that we make regarding the circumstances and investigation. In this instance, I have confirmed that we are handling this situation in accordance with our policies.

USA Gymnastics is committed to conducting thorough investigations before reaching conclusions. Each and every situation is evaluated on its individual merits, and every step in the process of investigating, verifying, and resolving these matters is considered, including any associated legal proceedings. The Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act requires us to use a fair process in determining whether or not an individual is to be declared ineligible to participate in the sport.

During the past five years, USA Gymnastics has updated its practices, policies and process for handling these types of incidents. While much of this current information was shared with the Orange County Register reporter, his story unfortunately does not include how our process and practices have been improved, as noted in other stories that have appeared.

Here is a quick overview of the steps and policies we have in place.

 Participant Welfare Policy – provides guidance on how clubs, coaches and parents can work together to provide a safe environment, as well as requirements and expectations of USA Gymnastics’ members. The topics covered in the policy, which may be read in its entirety at www.usagym.org/welfare, include: definitions of abuse used by USA Gymnastics for both physical and sexual abuse; reporting procedures and requirements for suspected abuse; misconduct/grievance procedures; member obligations and recommendations, as well as staff; standards of behavior; and education and communication about the policy to members and the general public.

 Mandatory criminal background screening and safety/risk management certification for professional members – background screening is renewed every two years; safety/risk management screening renewed every four years.

 Code of Ethics and proactive bylaws – bylaws include provisions for processing allegations and the types of discipline, including termination of membership, which may be administered by the organization.

 Published list of individuals banned from membership in USA Gymnastics – posted on our website and printed in our magazines. This lifetime ban means the individual does not have any of the rights or privileges associated with membership in USA Gymnastics, including but not limited to participation in any event conducted or sanctioned by USA Gymnastics.

USA Gymnastics is a membership organization, not a regulatory agency. Termination of membership, the public display of that termination and a lifetime ban on participation in sanctioned events is the most serious action available to us. While USA Gymnastics' jurisdiction does not extend to the business affairs of gymnastics coaches or clubs, we continue to address our practices in this area so we can be even more proactive moving forward.

The case mentioned in the article involves incidents that happened nearly 30 years ago. As I have mentioned many times, USA Gymnastics is serious about these issues and committed to taking the time necessary to come to correct conclusions.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or would like to discuss this.

As the father of three children involved in the sport, I have confidence in the more than 16,000 professional members, who are committed to providing a safe environment for the millions of young people involved in the sport.

Sincerely,
Steve Penny
President

 

[Phila]

This is the mentioned attatched letter.

The case mentioned in the article involves incidents that happened nearly 30 years ago. As I have mentioned many times, USA Gymnastics is serious about these issues and committed to taking the time necessary to come to correct conclusions.

This letter is all over facebook and in our private emails. It was sent to all Region and State Chairmen.

What Mr. Penny fails to say is that the USAG has been "investigating" Peters since last November. If that were your child would you find that a reasonable time frame? Next Sunday's article will be about a coach already banned who simply transferred to a different gym in a different state and continues his brand of coaching. The time frame to ban him - 2 years. That was with 12 witnesses against him.

"Dunno", I don't know who you are but we must know all of the same people. Change is worth fighting for!

ETA: Though these cases are old - 25 years is correct for the latest case.

 

[bogwoppit]

I asked for this issue not to be discussed until the admins discuss it. Please stick to discussing the child safety aspects of gymnastics. I agree that there is more to this than meets the eye, but until we decide how the CB wishes to proceed please stay off this issue. Thanks.