MAG JO men's technical sequence

[CalEliteCoach]

What is all the negative talk about the technical sequences for the men's program? I have heard some strong disagreement as to whether or not to have young boys participate in the program. I have a 12 year old son that has future stars and is currently doing both tech and optional routines this season. What is the negative side of training technical sequences?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'm not currently coaching boys, but to me the biggest disadvantage is simply that it seems like an unnecessary additional time sink. The amount of time we have to train skills and practice routines is finite; why spend time training two separate routines?

Now, having said that, I do for the most part like the technical sequences. I have some minor gripes with a few of them, but over all I think they're well-constructed. But if I had a group of guys training anything less than 20ish hours/week, I doubt I'd spend time on the technical sequences, opting instead to just focus on optional routines.

 

[wandrewsjr]

No experience or expertise to offer, but agree with the time issue. Can't imagine having to find the time to train TWELVE different routines!

 

[skschlag]

Add to those 12 routines for the upper levels the 6 routines for JO compulsaries and the 9 future stars routines at all the different ages....that is just a lot of stuff! LOL!

 

[J&A's mom]

What is it actually? There was a problem organizing it with the state competition here, at least that is the reason the host gym gave for finally getting info out to us! Is this something brand new?

 

[krc]

Back in the day, we all competed 12 routines. Six optional and six compulsories. Yes, every meet was a two day meet! The top level kids can handle this with 18-20 hrs/wk.
The tech sequences are designed for the top 10-15% of the competitive kids. They serve the dual purpose of enforcing/requiring exemplary technical execution, and to delay (yes delay) optional development. Think of it as promoting Olympic quality and waiting for Olympic caliber until they are older and more capable. So will this put a crimp in optional development for the junior athletes...yes!, that is the goal. Quality now, quantity later.

 

[skschlag]

I can see what you are saying krc, and I agree with it. I think for the most part, we push kids to learn these skills too early. But I don't see that they are delaying optional development. I think they are pushing the bigger skills earlier and earlier. Now, I am just a parent, but looking at the new routines this year, it initially seemed that the routines were easier. But the bonuses added in are pretty big skills at young levels. So the 2 thoughts seem to contradict themselves to me.

 

[CalEliteCoach]

Thank you for the input. My son is lucky enough to attend one of the top boys programs in the country. If the head coach says my son is competing future stars in the fall and optionals with tech sequence in the spring, I have to trust he is doing what is right for my sons development. I have been hearing some negative comments as to why some programs have decided to participate. The grumbling has come from some of the biggest judging and coaching names in men's gymnastics. So far my son has done very well. He made future stars national team in the fall and has managed to finish on the podium at every competition this season as a level 8. I understand this program isn't for everyone, but just curious to find out why it was so protested.

 

[profmom]

I can see what you are saying krc, and I agree with it. I think for the most part, we push kids to learn these skills too early. But I don't see that they are delaying optional development. I think they are pushing the bigger skills earlier and earlier. Now, I am just a parent, but looking at the new routines this year, it initially seemed that the routines were easier. But the bonuses added in are pretty big skills at young levels. So the 2 thoughts seem to contradict themselves to me.

This is a slight derail, but I'm curious -- for those who've been watching the judging this year, to what extent do your judges seem to be preferring clean execution over bonuses? It's been something of a mix here, but I'd say that on average, a very clean routine with two bonuses will beat a routine that is passable but not clean with three. A clean routine with one bonus won't. (Mathematically, I guess that makes sense . . .)

 

[J&A's mom]

I see this too. High Bar and floor especially!

 

[skschlag]

Here, it depends on the judge. Some judges like to have big swings, clean routines. Some still seem to be figuring it all out. I think I see the pressure (which is not the word I am looking for but can't come up with a better one) more on the kids. They see another gymnast doing a bonus, and they want the bonus. I have seen parents asking coaches when their child will do more bonuses. I like the changes for the most part, but I am just not completely sure how it will play out in the long run. Of course, in 4 years they will change it all again so I guess I wont have to worry about it for too long

 

[sjm2b3]

Such a good question about the bonuses and scoring. DS had his highest high bar score of the season today and got 2nd place even though he took out the flyaway. His highest p bar score was before he added the uprise bonus. Scores had literally been all over the place this year....pommel has been pretty consistent but that's it. There is huge variation in rings based on who is judging!!!

 

[2G1B]

We were at a competition yesterday and between competing and awards they came out and said that the judging was getting more difficult. That between higher expectations, the judges knowing what to expect more and a few updates from nationals that it is very likely that the boys will scoring lower now than they were at the beginning of the season.

In general, compared to some of the scores I have seen posted here, it has seemed like scores in our area have been lower than other areas of the country as it was. But I definitely saw these lower scores yesterday on the floor for DS. He scored a 9 on floor - by far the lowest he has scored on floor this year when he has done both bonuses. that 9 was 2nd place! 1st was only a 9.1!!

 

[skschlag]

I know we have seen some of that too. I think the judges are getting used to the start values. It is hard for the parents though, or at least for me. I still have a hard time adjusting my thinking after last year's scoring to this year's. There are still a couple of judges that score high sometimes, but most are settling in.

 

[MyBoysFlip]

The scoring seemed to drop at our meet this weekend also. At least on floor and vault!

 

[trapar]

Now I'm really worried about the regional qualifying score for ds's age category for level 6. He doesn't have another meet until state in 2 weeks, so if we are going to see a drop in scores, it won't be until then. Ds is expecting to qualify based on his performance at the last couple of meets (when he actually was able to compete AA), so I hope he isn't disappointed.

 

[profmom]

Huh. Interesting. Us too!

 

[profmom]

Now I'm really worried about the regional qualifying score for ds's age category for level 6. He doesn't have another meet until state in 2 weeks, so if we are going to see a drop in scores, it won't be until then. Ds is expecting to qualify based on his performance at the last couple of meets (when he actually was able to compete AA), so I hope he isn't disappointed.

Trapar, all good thoughts!! I really hope it works out for him! It's so hard when they have to miss meets and only have a few chances to make it.

 

[trapar]

Trapar, all good thoughts!! I really hope it works out for him! It's so hard when they have to miss meets and only have a few chances to make it.

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Back in the day, we all competed 12 routines. Six optional and six compulsories. Yes, every meet was a two day meet! The top level kids can handle this with 18-20 hrs/wk.
The tech sequences are designed for the top 10-15% of the competitive kids. They serve the dual purpose of enforcing/requiring exemplary technical execution, and to delay (yes delay) optional development. Think of it as promoting Olympic quality and waiting for Olympic caliber until they are older and more capable. So will this put a crimp in optional development for the junior athletes...yes!, that is the goal. Quality now, quantity later.

preach!