Parents Learning the kip question

[mom2newgymnast]

First a small bit of background. My dd is in the middle of the competition season as a level 3. She is doing great at practices and at the meets and is not struggling with any of her level 3 skills. We are happy with her gym ,which has a good reputation at both the compulsory and optional levels, and with her coaches. They have the philosophy on no uptraining during the season. After the state meet in December, they will begin working on all the level 4 skills. Occasionally, they will do a drill or two related to the next level skills or let the kids try them for fun (for example yesterday they all got to try the cartwheel on the low beams, while she was having them show their beam routine one by one on the high beam), but they are definitely not focusing on them. Since the actual meets have started, they are mostly pushing conditioning, routines and lots and lots of repetitions of some of the specific skills that are causing deductions at the meet.

So, that being said, my dd has started trying to do the kip during practice on her own. Bars are her best event and she is very strong at the level 3 skills. She's seen the higher level girls do kips, so she has started imitating them. She can get up on the bar. Her arms are bent, but she is not muscling up. The reason I am posting is that I am not sure if her doing this is a good idea or not. Without doing any drills or progressions and without the coaches coaching her on this, is this going to hurt her future chances of doing it right? I don't want her to teach herself the wrong way and then struggle next season to learn it the right way. On the other hand, maybe this will actually help her when they start really training them? What do you think, encourage her to stop and wait or not? Btw, her coach knows that she is doing this and doesn't seem to mind, but hasn't really encouraged it or praised it either. She does them at side stations and usually just as a means to get up on the bar when she is supposed to be practicing other skills.

Sorry for being so wordy.. just to summarize, I am curious if practicing a self taught kip (currently with bent arms) with no training will likely help or hurt her next season? And I know some people disagree with the no uptraining during the season philosophy, but it has worked well for this gym with very little repeating and successful gymnasts, so I am not complaining or questioning that part.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

I would discourage her from teaching any skills to herself. The kip can be tough to get properly, and the more she does it with bent arms before the proper drills and progressions, the more entrenched the improper way of doing it will be. I would think it would be fairly safe to say with what she has been able to do on her own so far, that she may not have too tough of a time anyway. Encourage her to wait for her coaches.

 

[raenndrops]

Most kips start out with bent arms... once she gets the coaching, she will get corrections to fix it. If the coach isn'tstopping it, iI wouldn't worry about it either.

 

[Sasha]

Just a parent here, but if possible, I would try to ask the coach.

I think it would depend if she's doing the rest of the movement mostly right (like the glide swing), or if she is doing something very strange that will 'stick' and be hard to correct. My guess is that since she is doing well at L3 bars, she has a nice glide swing and there is probably no concern, especially since coach hasn't stopped it. In all likelihood, I think she is probably doing no harm as it's true that most kids start with bent arms and gradually learn to straighten them. I have heard some posts on here that disagree and teach straight arms from the start, though.

I bring up 'ask the coach', though, as I do know one girl (in Xcel) who was otherwise strong on bars, but hadn't really started kip progressions. She tried to teach herself on the playground bars and in open gym copying some of the JO girls and was doing it WAY mechanically wrong (I did witness this personally). She was doing a strange swing with her feet behind her on the low bar, not extending, and a strange kick up in the air thing and arching. She was super strong, so she looked like she was almost making it sometimes(!) But it was all kinds of wrong. I imagine your daughter isn't doing those things, but just an example of when it WAS obviously a bad idea to try to teach oneself.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

Thanks for the opinions so far. I've read a lot on here about how certain skills, when learned wrong, can really make it harder in the future. But the way she is doing it looks pretty much like anything I have found online showing someone's first kip with bent arms. She does have a good glide swing according to the coach and her scores. I am in the trust the coach camp and I really don't ever ask questions about what's going on out on the floor, so I hesitate to ask the coach about it. I did ask my dd and she said the coach knew she was doing it, so I guess it's okay. I am sure if it was really bad or incorrect, that the coach would put a stop to it, right? I think I'll just let it be.

 

[gymjunkie]

Are you sure they aren't working them in practice? L3s can compete a kip, so it's not really "up-training."

 

[Deleted member 18037]

How is she doing this in practice on her "own". It's practice are there not coaches around? I mean you see what she is doing and the coaches don't? This does make sense to me.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

Are you sure they aren't working them in practice? L3s can compete a kip, so it's not really "up-training."

Pretty sure. They consider that skill a level 4 skill and none of the level 3's do them in meets. They are very focused on the level 3 bar skills. Maybe months ago before the competition season started, they did a few drills for it (I don't know, but it's possible), but from what I've seen of practices and what my dd has told me they are only doing routines and elements of the routines right now.

How is she doing this in practice on her "own". It's practice are there not coaches around? I mean you see what she is doing and the coaches don't? This does make sense to me.

I said the coaches have seen her do it, but they are not teaching them. If she is on a station where they are working on the shoot through for example, rather than do a pullover to get on the bar, she'll try to do a kip to get up there. Her coaches are working on different stations close by. I've seen it a couple of times myself and then my dd has told me other days that she has done a few on her own. It's not a big deal, I just wanted to make sure that she wasn't going to make it a lot harder later to learn it by possibly getting bad habits.

 

[Moxiegrl83]

If she's doing it during practice I would let it go. A lot of our level 3's will attempt kips during the bar workout even if that's not what they're specifically working.

 

[l.c.o]

Is it possible they've been working some kip drills? Or maybe they have in the past? Sometimes it's hard to "see" those.

My first question when I read this was how the coaches didn't know if it's done during practice. Seems like they do know, so I wouldn't worry. If they really were against her doing it, I'm sure they'd ask her to stop.

It'll clean up eventually.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Straight arms is our philosophy. And even our preteam kids work spotted kips.

 

[tooootsie]

Out of the 12 on our JO 3 team, 4 of them compete their kip on bars. These are however l3 repeaters. Although my ODD did compete her kip all last 1st season of l3 too. I bet they work the drills with her. Kip is a hard skill to get without spotting and proper coaching.

 

[Ausi_poppet]

I've heard the argument that you should stop kids teaching themselves skills at home or on the trampoline (and in your case the gym itself). I have to say that I think they should just be allowed to be kids and leave it for the coaches to sort out, particularly if she's doing it at gym.

My daughter taught herself to do flicks and back twisting on our trampoline and while the form wasn't perfect, it meant she approached learning them confidently. She picked up the skills very quickly in the gym once she started learning them for real. The same with double backs, arabians and front saulting - she took what she was learning in gym and had a muck around in our pool and on the trampoline to work through the mechanics of the skills.

The only reason I stop her from trying stuff is if I think it's too dangerous, or if she's doing it somewhere where other are watching and I think she might flip the switch from concentrating on what she is doing to showing off. That's when all bets are off for me.

 

[mobeans]

Are you sure they aren't working them in practice? L3s can compete a kip, so it's not really "up-training."

That's what I was wondering. Our L3s learned them all year long and many competed them during the L3 season. By the end of the season almost all had their kips.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

That's what I was wondering. Our L3s learned them all year long and many competed them during the L3 season. By the end of the season almost all had their kips.

Nope, they aren't working on them in practice. And none of our level 3's do them at meets. We have one repeating level 3 from a different gym and one from our gym that was injured last year. Neither of them do them in practice or at meets either. I am sure that some of the drills they do might help with the kip, but they do not do any specific to it and they are definitely not working specifically on them in practice.

Anyway, y'all are right.Since the coach has seen it and doesn't seem to care, I won't worry about it. In less than 2 months, competition season will be over and then they will all start learning all the level 4 skills. I'm sure her messing around with it in practice won't make any difference then, so it's all good.

Thanks everyone!