Need Advice From Experienced Coaches and Parents Regarding Tops

[Shelovesthebars]

My dd will be 5 this week. Is it more beneficial to compete level 3 with that being the sole focus of her year or would it be more beneficial to do tops training and focus on uptraining? I know that she will get a lot of positives out of both but I am wondering what the pros and cons are from both angles. I have read all posts I could find on tops here but if you have anything to add, I would appreciate it.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Has she been selected to train for TOPS? I know that you have to be pre-selected to do this type of training and if I recall correctly it is for ages 7-11 only. Since your dd is only 5, I think she would get more out of competeing Level 3. She will gain competition experience from doing Level 3 and there will ALWAYS be time to uptrain and do TOPS if she is selected later. There really is no rush at age 5 and you would have to base your decision on your child's personality, temperment and what you think SHE would like to do. I know that is very difficult to figure out at age 5, so having fun would be my primary concern.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I agree that at age 5, the primary focus should be on fun. As for which will be more fun for her, it really depends.

Training towards tops is likely to be very intense; some kids love that, but most at age 5 don't. However, the fact that your coaches are even considering her for a tops program suggests they think she may be one of the kids that thrive under such intensity.

To be completely honest, I'm not a big fan of either TOPS or level 3. Were I coaching such a kid, I would simply have her train towards level 4 or 5 and not worry about competing at all, but this boils down to personal philosophy more than anything else.

 

[mariposa]

I think that level 3 would be the way to go if she is at a gym that would still uptrain and keep her challenged. Starmaker's daughter Olivia competed as a level 2 and 3 I think and is still doing great, it hasn't slowed her down any, she is testing for TOPS this summer as she just turned 7. Depends on the kid, too. If they love a crowd and showing off routines, then level 3 would be fun for them. If they don't care either way, maybe skip it? Hard decision. I am always thankful to have just a regular kid when it comes to gymnastics talent. Parents of really talented kids (especially those that bloom really early) seem to have a lot more decisions to make and issues to deal with. Good luck!

 

[Azgymmiemom]

My daughter, MJ did tops training last year, even though she was too young to test (6). She loved it, but again, she was 6. She was also training it in addition to her developmental group. This year, she's on L4 team and also training Tops. Not all the girls who train for Tops at our gym will actually test, but the workout is outstanding and great for strength and flexibility. There are a LOT of parents that push their kids to come, though. I heard one girl going into tops one day, and somebody told her to have fun and she said, "I'm not here to have fun I'm here to work" lol.

My daughter didn't start gym until she was 6, and she didn't mind the added tops workouts...and our gym doesn't do them every week. I don't think at 5 I would have put her in them, though. Too much of a risk for burn out. And if she hadn't liked them, we would have stopped going-again, at that age, it's very easy for them to burn out if they go too much and it just isn't fun anymore.

 

[starmaker]

I agree with what many have said here....at 5 years old it should still be considered FUN for her. Now if your dd is like my dd and she thinks conditioning is awesome and loves every minute of it then training TOPS should be the way to go.

Olivia was naturally strong to begin with and didn't really had to struggle to build strength. Now with that being said she never officially started training for TOPS till last summer when she started at her current gym. However, at her previous gym she did compete L2 at 4.5 years old and L3 at 5 years old. She did the same conditioning as the optional girls. She was usually paired off with one of them and she would do what she could and for the most part held her own.

Looking back she loved performing, competing but didn't care for running a million routines. As the season progressed her routine almost got worse instead of better just because she was "over" them and ready for something else. Also, her coaches were very excited and really pushed her and placed unneccessary pressure for getting a 36AA to move up. She didn't really even know what a 36AA meant but she knew she had to nail it if she wanted to move up. It wasn't till the very last meet of the season that she was able to pull it off. Very stressful for everyone!! Competing would of been a great experience if it weren't for all pressure from the girls and coaches. Hence, why we switched gyms.

Now at 7 years old her focus is TOPS, she does lots of uptraining and for the time being NO routines. She may repeat L4 until her L5 are perfect and by then will have L6 almost mastered as well. She is testing this year (in a exactly a month) and she has most of her skills. She is great with anything that requires brute strength i.e leg lifts, straddle presses(she did 13 the other day at practice), rope. She had to practice many handstands but now has a 34 sec HS. Her issue is jumping and running. In fact it is such an issue it may keep her from diamond. But that's ok because she is still so young and can go for diamond next year.

This has been our experience. I hope in sharing this I cleared things for you. You know your dd the best and know what she truely enjoys. If L3 is her focus, how is her conditioning program? Is it still strong? Are her coaches dead set in making her a state champion at 5 years old? Do they play mind games to get her "fired up"? I think in your shoes I would consider TOPS and uptraining. That what my dd would of really loved! She loves learning new skills and conditioning. For performance experience just put her in a dance class.

Good luck! I am sure you will make the right decision for your dd. Let us know what you decide.

 

[CoachTodd]

My dd will be 5 this week. Is it more beneficial to compete level 3 with that being the sole focus of her year or would it be more beneficial to do tops training and focus on uptraining? I know that she will get a lot of positives out of both but I am wondering what the pros and cons are from both angles. I have read all posts I could find on tops here but if you have anything to add, I would appreciate it.

I personally hate level 3. It teaches so many things you have to correct later. I don't really like TOPs for different reasons.
I think she needs to focus on enjoying the sport while learning new skills.
We have a group of little ones at our gym that are mainly focusing on form and basics and loving it. Every team coach in the gym wants to work with them because they are so receptive and want to learn. I believe if you base your decision on what she would enjoy the most, you can't lose.

 

[gymnut1]

I think starmaker has very good advice.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Tops has been brought up twice this week. Some coaches say 5 is too young and some say that she should start now. They are doing a tiny amount of uptraining but it is very minimal at best. They do one day of conditioning but it is self directed so I don't know how much a 4 year old understands and if she is doing it correctly. She likes the conditioning. She gets bored easily! We'll see how the next few months go. She is very strong for her age too. She still loves gymnastics and doesn't walk anywhere. She handstands, rolls, walks on her hands ....and likes to show everyone and I mean everyone what she can do.
I wanted to add that our gym is not interested at all in level 3 state champions but they are interested in level 5 state champions. Level 3 is very relaxed and non stressful from what I hear. It is just an opportunity to let the girls experience being in front of judges and the whole competition arena. Scores are not emphasized. The coaches are great too!

 

[starmaker]

One day of conditioning is not enough in my opinion. I tend to think the conditioning program is the most important part, especially at the lower levels. She needs to build her strength to prevent injury, learn skills faster and safer, etc. The fact that it's self directed at 5 years old is rough too.

I know that when my dd was 4 and 5 years old I was eager to see her compete and look all cute doing her thing but I think it would of best to focus on basics, form, conditioning, Tops skills, uptraining-in that order. I think that's the receipe for a successful 7 year old Level 5 that will go on to succeed at optionals.

If she's getting bored with conditioning than they need to make it more challenging and make a game out of it. Liv loves to challenge herself and beat herself. If she does 10 pull ups she wants to see if she can do 12 and so on.

Since level 3 is relaxed is there any way she can do both?? Or do more conditioning if you choose to compete L3.

 

[gym law mom]

Doing routines over and over can get boring. So can doing conditoning for the next 2 years. Starting her in a serious TOPs program at age 5 means she'll be doing this stuff until the summer when she's old enough to test. Way too much physical stress on a little body.

Since it seems your only other option is L3, then I would say let her be a 5yo having some fun doing some meets that are FUN. No emphasis on scores by coaches or parents. If the option for an additional day of TOPs like training is available then she could try that and see if she likes it.

She's got 2 years until she can test TOPs or compete L5. Now is a good time to try other activites/sports---its her time to grow and explore the world.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

She started training level 3 routines in April so she is doing that for the time being. She does do other activities like dance, soccer, swimming, and plays with her best friend at least 4 days a week so gymnastics is not the only thing she enjoys but she likes it the best by far. We'll see about doing tops. I am in no hurry so I will just wait and see how the next few months go and how she likes competing level 3.

 

[UnoMas]

Well, do you really have to choose? Why not level 3 AND TOPs? It of course depends on your DD's personality and your gym. Some kids LOVE competing. Some kids actually LOVE conditioning (my DD does TOPs and it is actually one of her favorite parts of her day at practice).

Having said that, I have seen a couple young gymmies who enter L4 at a very young age and can't compete for a year or two and they get burned out with having nothing to look forward to in terms of competing.

We never had to choose because DD started TOPs (only 1x/week) when she was 4 1/2 and training L2. She got to do little in-house meets and our gym's big meet in the spring. Now she is training L4 and her TOPs hours have increased, as well as her regular practice time. Uptraining is never a big focus at our gym for any of our girls...so I can't speak to that. It's been a good mix of the strength training and the routines/competition.

My hope would be that you don't have to choose! Have you asked DD? Is competing and dressing up important to her?

Sounds like you have a talented young gymmie and she will likely do fine either way but I would think the most important thing is to try to avoid burnout and keep it fun at 5!

 

[starmaker]

I just wanted to mention that TOPS skills should be worked on in any gymnastics training program. Leg lifts, handstands, strength and flexibility do not cause injury or stress to the body. The stronger and more flexible the gymnast the less chance of injury. They also get skills quicker.

We have a few 5 year olds in our Saturday TOPS class and you can see them getting stronger week to week. Testing TOPS as a 7 year old and getting a medal much less diamond is very difficult. One thing is having the skills and another thing is having them Diamond quality. Every year it gets more and more competitive. The skills take time to develop and starting at 5 years old is huge advantage.

During competition season dd's favorite part of practice was TOPS. She loved competing but would look forward to her TOPS class. Now with testing so close she spends most of her time on her hands. Handstands and presses are her favorite thing, but that's her. She has never shed a tear in her TOPS class and many other older girls have. It's not for everyone.

Have you asked if she can do both? Maybe coming in an hour earlier to do TOPS before her regular class might be an option.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Thanks for all of your input. We will let you know what we decide to do. If she does tops, it definately would be geared toward her age or we won't do it. We will see how it goes.

 

[justanothergymmom]

Not sure if I am an "experienced parent" but to let you know where I am coming from, dd#1 is 10 yo training L9, dd#2 is 8yo training L6 and,, dd#3 is on preteam. (I also have a 2 yo with a nice handstand and cartwheel-LOL!) Both of my older girls have taken different paths: dd#1 began competeing as a L5 and has progressed a level every year, dd#2 did 2 years of L4 before L5.

It sounds like your daughter is quite talented and will probably be fine whatever path you take. I agree with starmaker that TOPs conditioning should be a part of any team's conditioning program. It has greatly benefitted both my older girls especially on bars (strength) and floor (flexibility).

Our gym doesn't compete level 2 or 3, our preteam trains L4 and L5 skills. Also, thankfully, our gym doesn't give us a choice as to where to put our girls (I am terrible with decisions .

If I were in your shoes with my oldest and given a choice, at the time I may have been tempted to let her compete L3 for the fun of it and the experience of being in front of judges (but I don't think it would have been the right choice for her). With the perspective I have now, if given the choice for dd#3 I would probably choose TOPs and uptraining, as I think that would benefit her more in the long run.

Good luck! (sorry for the novel...)

 

[cher062]

Why does it have to be one or the other. At our gym they can do both. I know when my daughter was younger the TOPS training helped her skills So much.

In our gym they also have something they call ODT. I think its something just our gym does. But its an extra day similar to TOPS for the older girls. You don't have to do it but those that do get alot out of it.

If possible I would try both and see is she can handle it and if she likes both.

 

[BlairBob]

As a coach training basics and strength and flexibility is more important to me than competing. Especially at that age.

Honestly, any decent program should already involve what TOPS is doing. Just add a TOPS day to focus on what is required to compete in TOPS/HOPES.

It varies kid to kid. It may work for some kids and not for others.