WAG Need advice

[skidad]

My dd is on level 6 with most of her level 7 skills. Now in the past her gym would just let her compete 7 and work the skills. This year they have taken a harder line and will only move people up when they have all their skills which is fine except they have moved up one of her teammates from 4 to 6 And the young lady doesn't have all her skills. My daughter is very upset about it. Also after seeing her practice, my dd is not utilizing her level 7 skills in her routines. How so no address this with the coaches without bringing up the other child?

 

[chalkbowl]

My dd is on level 6 with most of her level 7 skills. Now in the past her gym would just let her compete 7 and work the skills. This year they have taken a harder line and will only move people up when they have all their skills which is fine except they have moved up one of her teammates from 4 to 6 And the young lady doesn't have all her skills. My daughter is very upset about it. Also after seeing her practice, my dd is not utilizing her level 7 skills in her routines. How so no address this with the coaches without bringing up the other child?

What skills is your DD missing for level 7? Are the level 7 skills that she does have clean? It may be the coaches do not want to put the level 7 skills in her routine as they would incur deductions and lower her scores as a level 6.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I've learned over the years that why some girls move up and some don't isn't always based on the apples to apples comparison of skills. Lots of things factor in to these decisions that coaches make (just like when Marta decides what the lineup will be at Worlds ).

The girl that moved from 4 to 7 may be competing in a less competive age division than your DD (so she may be more individually successful in 7 than your DD even with lower scores). The other girl also may be facing a really tough age division if she competes 6, or she has a weakness that is scored more harshly in 6 or a strength that is more valuable/impactful in 7 scoring. Or, it could be that this girl may be really strong on one or two events that many of the other 7's are weak on and she can actually make an impact on the team score. Or, on the contrary, it could be that your DD is really strong at something that the rest of the 6's are weak at (not fair if its this, I know, but the team comes before the individual sometimes). These are just some ideas as to why the discrepancy - I'm sure there are more . I know it's frustrating for your DD though.

I will say that it is never good to be seen as the parent or gymnast who is upset over how another gymnast who they feel is worse than them got moved up when they didn't. She is going to have to let this go and continue working hard, forget about the other girl and do her best as a 6. Complaining or having an attitude about something like this can cause the coaches to start to look for reasons that justify their decisions and dismiss any evidence they made a mistake. Almost like a self fulfilling prophecy that works against your DD.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

First, disregard the fact and why/why not the other girl is moving up. It really has nothing to do with your DD. Nothing! I get that she is upset by it, but she has to learn to not let what other people do or do not do affect her. Things are very seldom "fair", especially in subjective sports!!! Really, there is NOTHING you can say about the other girl that will come across the right way!

The one thing you CAN do (if you have a decent, communicative coach) is ask why your DD isn't using XYZ skills in her L6 routine. Just be really careful to come across as curious and not confrontational. Most likely, your DDs "L7 skills" aren't competition ready in her coaches' eyes and they want her to have as successful a season as possible.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Coming from the other side of this I would say- and I'm not trying to be rude- that this is a great opportunity to teach your DD to focus on her own gymnastics and not compare or judge.

My 14yo DD has yet to compete a JO meet- she started rec two years ago this week. When she joined this gym they had her slated to compete 4 or 5 this season. A few weeks ago they moved her into L6 (she's being petitioned) and one girl in particular is always asking why she got moved up. She even told my DD her mom wanted to know why my DD was in her group. She has attempted to make my DD feel like she doesn't belong but it hasn't worked because my DD is confident in herself. In fact, at this point it is beginning to make that girl look bad. She comes off as petty and jealous, and it's gotten to where their teammates have felt the need to stick up for my DD and her placement. It's all unnecessary if everyone would focus on their own progress. At the end of the day, this isn't the national team, and one girl moving up isn't taking a spot from another girl. The only thing they should feel about their teammates level is supportive IMO.

 

[kayjaybe]

First, disregard the fact and why/why not the other girl is moving up. It really has nothing to do with your DD. Nothing! I get that she is upset by it, but she has to learn to not let what other people do or do not do affect her. Things are very seldom "fair", especially in subjective sports!!! Really, there is NOTHING you can say about the other girl that will come across the right way!

The one thing you CAN do (if you have a decent, communicative coach) is ask why your DD isn't using XYZ skills in her L6 routine. Just be really careful to come across as curious and not confrontational. Most likely, your DDs "L7 skills" aren't competition ready in her coaches' eyes and they want her to have as successful a season as possible.

^^^ That. Focus on your own dd. I think it is fine for you (or better if it is your dd) to ask why she isn't doing her L7 skills in her routines. She/you can also ask what SHE still needs to move to L7, but don't worry about the other girl.

Unless your gym keeps strict numbers of gymnasts per level, one person moving up or not moving up should have no bearing on your child. It isn't like there are only a finite number of people that can get their giants and that if Susie gets them then that means your dd can't/won't get them. (just using giants as an example of a possible skill she is missing)

 

[skidad]

I'm not questioning why the other girl got moved up or even y my child didn't. I guess I'm questioning the consistency of the message the gym is trying to convey

 

[vagymmomma]

Our gym is going through something similar. Last season the gym started to draw a hard line on skills for L7 (girls must have giants and at least a BWO-BHS or they compete L6). It has been a tough adjustment and I understand that there has been a bit of drama surrounding it (which drama seems to grow exponentially with pre-teen and teen girls in the mix). A couple posters made really good points -- (1) there is a big difference between doing a skill and doing it well (and consistently) and (2) the beauty of optionals is that the coaches have the flexibility to change to routines that best enable a gymnast to maximize their scores. A lot of girls at level 6 will not have giants and I have definitely seen non-giant bars score higher than those with giants (even at level 7). As long as they continue to uptrain the skills, competing down can be a great coaching strategy.

I encourage you to talk to the coaches because I bet they have a completely different point of view. No point in mentioning any team mates -- you really need to trust the coaches.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I'm not questioning why the other girl got moved up or even y my child didn't. I guess I'm questioning the consistency of the message the gym is trying to convey

The only message I ever want from my girls' gyms is that they treat each girl as an individual and want what's best for them. What's most likely best for one of ODDs teammates is to compete six because of a fear/block on back tumbling. Another teammate is driven by getting on the podium and competing whatever level she is most likely to place is best for her. For my DD the flexibility of optionals is what makes it her best bet. She doesn't expect to place at any level and is the definition of intrinsic motivation. Different kids, different needs, same message- we take you as you are and put you in the best place for YOU.

 

[munchkin3]

We joke all the time in the gym, (granted, there are some parents who don't laugh)
There is Level 7, and then there is crappy L7.......

At the end of the season, ask those who competed the crappy 7 their opinion, and they will say they wished they competed awesome 6.....Giants take a while to look great.....so do BHS on the beam.....they just take time....

Please don't take offense, I am not judging yours or anyone's DD, it's just that NEW L7 is unforgiving. And new L6 can be competed close to 7ish, and you will do very well......

Don't get hung up on the levels.....think skills.

Ps, my DD has a firecracker on her team, who began August with fewer skills that my DD.....she was placed way up in a level 7 group and is doing awesome. She has gained tones of skills, and will have a great L7 season......
Biggest difference is fear.....she has none.

 

[duyetanh]

Coming from the other side of this I would say- and I'm not trying to be rude- that this is a great opportunity to teach your DD to focus on her own gymnastics and not compare or judge.

My 14yo DD has yet to compete a JO meet- she started rec two years ago this week. When she joined this gym they had her slated to compete 4 or 5 this season. A few weeks ago they moved her into L6 (she's being petitioned) and one girl in particular is always asking why she got moved up. She even told my DD her mom wanted to know why my DD was in her group. She has attempted to make my DD feel like she doesn't belong but it hasn't worked because my DD is confident in herself. In fact, at this point it is beginning to make that girl look bad. She comes off as petty and jealous, and it's gotten to where their teammates have felt the need to stick up for my DD and her placement. It's all unnecessary if everyone would focus on their own progress. At the end of the day, this isn't the national team, and one girl moving up isn't taking a spot from another girl. The only thing they should feel about their teammates level is supportive IMO.

Like times infinity. Wish it always worked this way, and hate that it doesn't.

 

[rjb123]

I think that the best thing for you to do is have your daughter talk to her coach. Tell him/ her that she is upset and why. Have her ask why she is not ready for level seven. I think that since it is coming from the child, the coach will be possibly more gentle (its harder to be annoyed at a kid who wants to reach a certain goal and is asking about it) as opposed to a parent. Plus, since you said she is upset, it is better that she learn to go straight to the source.

 

[duyetanh]

Edited to add that your dd could very well rock level six this season, and maybe the level 7 tricks hold more risk for error, so the coaches are holding back. I know my dd has some of lvl 7 skills, but no way in heck does the coach want them in her routines (thank God)!

 

[MeetDirector]

skidad -

Let this, and anything else that looks like this situation, be. Don't try and figure out why things happen to other athletes. You have to reach a point in this sport where you trust that the coach is doing the right thing by your dd. Any discussions you ever have with the coach need to be focused 100% on your dd with zero comparisons to other athletes in the gym. And try to keep the discussion away from levels; most good coaches always talk in terms of skills.

Good Luck.

 

[gymdog]

I'm not questioning why the other girl got moved up or even y my child didn't. I guess I'm questioning the consistency of the message the gym is trying to convey

Maybe I'm confused but you said you this girl moved from 4 to 6 and your daughter wants to move from 6 to 7 so we aren't even talking about the same levels to compare their policies. Unless they move the girl to 7 while she's still missing her skills, I don't see why either you or your daughter are entertaining these sorts of thoughts. Is that going to help her get her missing level 7 skills?

The bottom line is if they moved this girl 4 to 6 she's probably talented and learning at a faster rate than average and based on her skills and strength they predicted she would catch up quickly. I could tell you otherwise but that's the most likely scenario. There are most likely going to be gymnasts better than your daughter, and worse, in her career. Entertaining jealousy rather than focusing on her own athletic goals is unproductive and silly.

 

[GYM0M]

I'm not questioning why the other girl got moved up or even y my child didn't. I guess I'm questioning the consistency of the message the gym is trying to convey

I'm not sure there is inconsistency. Hear me out, I'm assuming your dd has already competed as an optional gymnast. & as such, it is safe to assume that she will be competing in the first scheduled comp. BUT you don't know when the other little girl is set to start competing as an optional. She might end up not competing this year. But as mentioned above, her rate of progression might be faster than her L4 teammates and the coaches feel she fits better into the optional training group. OR her mom is better at sucking up to the coach. OR the coach is trying to let the other girl eat mat bc her mom PUSHED for the higher level! Most likely, scenario 1, but YOU will probably NEVER know. And that's ok bc it's not your place to know. Consistency in gymnastics is what all the gymnasts (& coaches) strive for. Any gymmie that's had a bad meet, can tell us that sometimes it doesn't work out that way. And coaches are not immune. Sorry she's struggling with this, but quite frankly, she's putting too much into it by giving it more than a second (or first) thought. CHANNEL IT! USE IT!!!!

 

[thefellowsmom]

As much as we try to avoid it, there will inevitably be a time when we and/or our gymmies look around and see the situation as unfair. This is natural.

Any coach worth their salt is looking at each child as an individual and is making what they feel is the best choices for that child, and that won't always be fair or equal.

Now the above combined situation can be awkward and not always handled perfectly by anyone involved. Coaches have to be so careful about what they say. The wrong word can set a certain type of parent or child into a total frenzy. Many times they feel like there is no way to come out ok in these situations. This can lead to a sense of evasiveness that we sometimes feel coming from them.

It is easy enough for us all to say that you have to trust the process, and you do, of course, but getting there can be tough sometimes, even for the most laid back parent. We can probably all say we have been there at some point.

It took some time, but I trust my dds coaches 100%. I know that they are always looking out for what is best for her. That doesn't mean my mind doesn't head left sometimes and it doesn't mean my dd never worries about where she stands compared to her teammates. It also doesn't mean I never feel like her coach is being wishy washy with me.

With all that said, wHen she comes home with some jealousy or frustration, I now simply ask her what she's going to do about it. Like gymom said , they have to use it and only they can do anything to change it. This is one of those incredible life lessons gymnastics is so good at teaching.

I tell her the only thing she can control is what she does in the gym today. You don't like the way things are going then go out there and make change. Prove them all wrong. Work twice as hard and be twice as focused as everyone else and the results are bound to inspire you to do even more and may even impress the coaches. Just go to work.

 

[munchkin3]

One of the most important lessons for us parents is to learn not to fall into the trap of worrying what other kids are doing. All I can offer is how great your DD is getting a new teammate and it will strengthen the TEAM.....you should convey acceptance, and remind your DD the coaches have made their decision, and it's not for you or DD to get involved in....just embrace it.

I don't know why it is so hard for us parents to not get so involved in what OTHER kids are doing.....I guess we feel so proud of our own children, and we are so amazed at their talent, that we feel they are the best....or maybe we are afraid attention will be taken away from our own children only to be given to a less prepared kid.....maybe it's our own insecurities......or just plain old competitiveness.........I don't know, that is a question only you can answer.

It sounds like your DD is an amazing Level 6, almost L7 gymnast, who will have a great season. The more awesome talent your coaches pick to move up, is only good for the team.....the only way your DD can contribute, is by working hard for HER skills.....

 

[Sasha]

I agree with all the sentiments above about not worrying about the progress of other kids and making comparisons, despite that being impossibly hard to do as parents at times.

However, what I hear this Dad asking is more about the discrepancy between what coaches portray to parents and gymnasts as 'the rules for move-ups' to justify their decision for one child (his daughter), but then not following through on 'the rules' consistently for the rest of the team. The inconsistent message is the issue, not the decision to move some other kid on a faster track in comparison to his daughter.

And the fact is there can never be a consistent set of rules about move ups that will be in the best interest of every individual gymnast.

The coaches are pretty much "darned if they do" attempt to set out a consistent set of practices, because it won't be optimal for a few gymnasts who need a different path for their development (and other parents will understandably question the exceptions), and "darned if they don't" because parents will complain that move-ups are a mystery and coaches are non-communicative about policies.

I had the same confusion when my DD was told she couldn't do L4 last year because she didn't have 'all the skills' (her front handspring wasn't competition ready), yet half the L3's didn't even have a back handspring at all (required) and yet moved up. I was a little miffed because my amazing, dedicated, hard-working daughter was disappointed and there was no 'clear rule' to help her process and accept that. It didn't feel 'fair'.

I've now learned that across the board "rules", though well-intentioned, are actually "guidelines" and will always be broken to suit the individual, or or sometimes, the makeup of the team.

In case it helps, we have the same 'must have skills x months before season' general rule. Exceptions I have seen in our gym in the last 2 years have been:
- Level 3's in general often move up without several skills if the team isn't too big already
- 13 year old moved up to L4 without anything close to a kip. Otherwise she'd be with all the 8 year olds in L3.
- 11 year old mid-pack (slow and steady progressing) moved to L5 without back tumbling (she has been with same group of friends for many years and would probably quit if held back with the younger kids. She's taking lots of privates and making steady progress).
- Girl moved to L5 with stellar vault and bars, nice floor, but missing skills on beam.
- Girls NOT moved up to L5 (repeating L4) to have them ultimately skip 5 and uptrain for L7
- Girls NOT moved up to L5/6 to focus on TOPs

Just help your daughter understand that rules are actualy 'guidelines' and help her understand the difference.

 

[gymdog]

Well from a gymnastics perspective I have to reiterate that we aren't comparing the same thing here. Moving from compulsories or into compulsories (level 3) is not the same as moving up in optional so to a higher optional level. As you go up the levels, the gap that you need to close per level is harder and harder to close in one year. Also, most gyms start competing in level 3, so moving INTO level 3 has the lower bar than moving OUT of level 3 or beyond. It's the first level. Similarly, some gyms have a more distinct line between compulsories and optional so where the compulsory program goes a lot less hours or practices in a much more "simple" way without much up training. If so, at these gyms, a child who is progressing very fast might be moved up to the first optional level quickly. That doesn't mean that it will be easy to move out of that level to 7 or 8.

My guess is the gym says OP's daughter needs giants for level 7 and she doesn't have giants. That doesn't mean they have a rule for moving from level 4 to level 6, it means they have a rule that you need giants for level 7.