Question about requirements for usag level 8 or 9?

Discussion in 'Women's Artistic Gymnastics (WAG)' started by Canadian_gym_mom, Nov 14, 2013.

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  1. Canadian_gym_mom

    Canadian_gym_mom New Member Proud Parent

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    Ok so we are going to the meet in Florida in January. The coaches are talking to the girls about the appropriate levels and it is I different from what we are used to. So they think my dd will have to go level 8 because of bars. Here are her routines...

    Bear with me, she told me this and I wrote it down but I really only know about half of what it means.

    Vault is a tsuk something.

    Floor she does front handspring front layout, round off whip back handspring full twist, and round off back handspring one and a half twist. She does a switch split split jump and a switch half. Double turn.

    Beam she does a press to front walkover to side aerial, switch split scissor split, side some, 2 back handsprings, front tuck and round off layout dismount. And a full turn.

    Bars is kip cast handstand, 2 free hip handstands connected, step down, soul circle, jump to high bar, kip cast handstand, giant, giant, flyaway.

    She says that she will need to go level 8 because of bars but take lots of stuff out of her other routines, which makes her sad.

    I am honestly just asking because dd is so excited about going to Florida this is all she talks about and wants to watch USA gymnastics YouTube videos non stop.

    So if anyone old tell me if the outlines I described are level 8, that would be great!


    Thanks!
     

  2. hawaii_gymnast

    hawaii_gymnast Verified Coach Verified Coach Gymnast Judge

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    USA bars is completely out of line of other skills compared to Canada, in both CPN and CPP. I had skills similar to your daughter, but was competing P4 (training P5) not CPN. No real advice other than to say that she definitely isn't the only one in that situation when competing in the States.
     
  3. CameronSasmor96

    CameronSasmor96 Coach Coach Gymnast

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    Her beam routine is level 9 and her floor is pretty solid 9 too. Her beam dismount could be upgraded so her difficulty looks more uniform, but it's not necessary as level 9 only requires a B level dismount, which I believe a layout is. If she upgraded her front pass it would be a good level 9 floor routine as well (same thing as with beam, uniform difficulty and such). Depending on what shape her vault is it could be considered more 8 or 9. Tuck or pike is more 8, and pike or layout is more 9. You said her bars isn't quite up to level 9 standards, and your not wrong. She's missing a bar transition, a long axis turning skill, and probably some bonus for connections. However, I competed level 9 with a similar bar routine and floor and beam not quite as high in difficulty as your daughter. She could probably compete level 9 just fine she just probably wouldn't be in the all around standings or in the bars standings. What it comes down to is the expectations of the coaches (whether they require all events to compete a level or not and such) and if your daughter loves winning.

    Sources: Competed level 9 USAG
     
  4. MaryA

    MaryA Proud Parent/Moderator Staff Member CBBC Board Member CB Booster Club Proud Parent

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    Yes, I agree that it depends on what her (and her coaches') goals are for the meet. If she want to give it all she's got, she can compete as a 9 and just not have 10.0 start values on all events. If the goal is to place as high as possible, she can compete as an 8.
     

  5. coachp

    coachp Verified Coach Verified Coach Proud Parent

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    She is missing a lot on bars for level 9.... What cameron mentioned along with no dismount.
     
  6. wandrewsjr

    wandrewsjr Verified Coach Verified Coach Proud Parent

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    She would only have to take out the side somi and front tuck on beam for level 8, every other event could stay as is. She is missing A LOT on bars for level 9(my guess is a start value of 7.7? - no 2 bar changes, no flight, no 2nd flight or turn, no B dismount, no connection bonus). Beam, floor and vault would also not start at a 10 for level 9, though they are much closer than bars.
     
  7. gymgal

    gymgal New Member CBBC Board Member CB Booster Club Proud Parent

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    I would encourage her to trust her coaches as to which level will be best. As others have said, there are only a couple of skills that she will need to take out for level 8 and it seems she would have much more solid routines for 8 than for 9. I could be wrong, coaches correct me, but given what you wrote, she won't have a start value of 10 on bars even at level 8 because you need either a turn or release/transition. Reality is that it is Just one meet out of an entire season, in another country, far from home. Encourage her to focus on the entire experience. It may not be easy to convince her but she will enjoy the trip better if she can change her thinking.
     
  8. gymmomof1

    gymmomof1 New Member Proud Parent

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    Oh how exciting competing either level is great! Wishing her a terrific meet and enjoyable time for you :)
     
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  9. fuzi

    fuzi Coach Coach Former Gymnast Judge

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    If she has a tsuk tuck that would be a 9.8 SV in level 8, and a tsuk pike would be a 10.0 SV in level 8.
    In level 9, a tsuk tuck would be a 9.6, tsuk pike a 9.7, and tsuk layout a 10.0 SV.

    Bars is the weird one.
    For level 8, she'll have a 9.5 SV because she is missing a skill with fight or turn. If she could do kip + cast hs 1/2 + clear hip clear hip, she'd have a 10.0 SV.
    For level 9, she'll have a 7.7 SV.

    Beam isn's so bad.
    For level 8, she'll have a 10.0 SV but have to take out the side aerial and side somi, as those are not allowed.
    For level 9, she'll have a around a 9.3 SV, and have to take out either the side aerial or side somi.

    Floor is also weird.
    As her routines are now, she'd have a 10.0 SV on FX in level 8.0, but she can't do a 1 1/2 twist as that isn't allowed, she'd have to replace it with a 1/2 twist or a layout.
    For level 9, she'd have a 9.7 SV with no changes required.

    Either way, her routines are not quite what USAG expects. She can water down her routines and score well at level 8 or compete what she has been practicing in level 9, with the understanding that she'll be at a disadvantage on beam and bars. The exciting part will be traveling and competing in a different country!
     
  10. wandrewsjr

    wandrewsjr Verified Coach Verified Coach Proud Parent

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    One C per event is allowed at level 8, so the 1 1/2 on floor can stay.
     
  11. GymBee97

    GymBee97 New Member Proud Parent

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    Trust that her coaches have her best interests in mind and go with what they are suggesting. It's only one meet.
     
  12. fuzi

    fuzi Coach Coach Former Gymnast Judge

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    You're right. I was thinking the old rules in my head still. So yes, her 1 1/2 on FX is fine.
     
  13. Canadian_gym_mom

    Canadian_gym_mom New Member Proud Parent

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    It's hard for me to understand the 10 rule as we are so used to FIG. We are sure she will be competing level 8 at this point and she is totally fine with it. I have a question. For beam level 9, if she only had a 9.3, why would she need to take stuff out? How would you get a 10? Simply a question out of curiosity.

    And for all I know her coaches have researched all this and will make the appropriate changes she needs.

    Thanks :)
     
  14. vagymmomma

    vagymmomma New Member CB Booster Club Proud Parent

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    I didn't count her As and Bs , but they fall out as follows:
    L8: 4 A’s, 4 B’s, 0 C (with one allowable C that counts for B value)
    L9: 3 A’s, 4 B’s, 1 C (with D/E allowable that counts for C value)

    Basically, only one C tumbling skill is allowed at L8, so she would definitely have too many on beam with her current routine. As a matter of fact, a side somi and side aerials might even be Ds that are not allowed at all. Whether a C or a D, she either has too many or they're too high a skill level. I'm sure her coaches know the requirements.

    Unlimited C dance is allowed at L8 for B value, so I think it's probably pretty easy to change up beam. Just to give you ideas on common skill ratings at L8 - BHS is a B, RO is a B, switch leap is dance C, BLO dismount is a B, 1 1/2 turn is a C, FWO is a B, etc.
     
  15. raenndrops

    raenndrops Coach Coach Proud Relative Former Gymnast

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    The 10 rule is how FIG USED to do it too... before the start value became additive. The Start Value is the highest you can score (with a PERFECT ROUTINE) ... in USAG JO, the max is a 10... if you have all the requirements.

    For beam Level 9, she can only have 1 D ACRO skill... and it only counts for C credit. Both the side aerial and side somi are D skills, so she can only do one of them. At level 9, if they have all the requirements, they start out of a 9.70 ... with a possible 0.30 bonus for connections...
    Hope that helps.
     
  16. fuzi

    fuzi Coach Coach Former Gymnast Judge

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    I know it is weird. For level 9, they can only have 1 D tumbling skill, and both a side somi and an aerial are D skills. In level 9, they start out of a 9.7 if they have all their requirements, but your daughter would be missing a "B" dismount, so that is a 0.5 deduction, putting her at a 9.2 SV. I wasn't exactly sure what you meant by "switch split scissor split," but it sounded like it might give her a tenth in bonus, putting her SV around a 9.3.

    Hope that helps. :D It certainly is a different system.
     
  17. shelovestoflip

    shelovestoflip New Member Proud Parent

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    Curiosity about bars...

    At Level 9 is it better to compete a Yurchenko or Tsuk or is it really dependent on the gymnast?

    My daughter competed a tsuk pike at level 8. This year she is competing Level 9 and is doing a Yurchenko (layout? Does that make sense? She has the pike but they want her to do the layout, I believe)

    Anyway, her team seems split on tsuk and yurchenko and I wonder why?
     
  18. gymgal

    gymgal New Member CBBC Board Member CB Booster Club Proud Parent

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    they all have their individual strengths. Dd does better with yurchenkos. Apparently doesn't get enough power to flip a tsuk well. Others have that power to make the tsuk a better vt for them.
     
  19. fuzi

    fuzi Coach Coach Former Gymnast Judge

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    It is better to compete whichever Vault she is stronger at. You will see that most elites do Yurchenko vaults, as do most college female gymnasts, but she can be successful in JO with either. A tsuk pike or yurchenko pike are both a 9.7 SV for level 9 and a tsuk or yurchenko layout are both a 10.0 for level 9.
     
  20. shelovestoflip

    shelovestoflip New Member Proud Parent

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    Not sure what vault she's better at. She is a strong vaulter oveall (State Champ at Level 6, 7 and 8 :)

    I think currently her coach is having her work on a yurchenko layout. She currently can do pike, I think.
    Last year she did a pike Tsuk.
     
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