WAG "Skills" that aren't in the code - questions

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Turk

Gymnast
For my next competition, I'm in our Intermediate category - I'm definitely above Beginner now, but I don't have the requirements for the top level so I'm in Inter. Only problem is... no dance skills above a B on floor. As a dancer, that's where all my strengths lie - for example, I'm working on a turn combo that goes D+D+E+B!

Since I also can't use any tumbling higher than an A, it's not like I can use the remaining time to upgrade my tumbling, so I'm literally going to have to DANCE and fill my routine with good dance moves which are impressive but not in the Code of Points. Some of the skills I have in mind are obvious, whereas some may accidentally get recognised as "poor" attempts at coded skills if the judge has no dance background.

Anyway, first question: today I was just improvising to see what would fit where and I realised I'd done a shoulder roll in the same place every time and I suddenly thought: is it too much like a backwards roll? If you saw this being performed, would you credit it as a backwards roll and then take massive deductions for it being a terrible attempt at a "proper" roll?

An example I found on youtube:

(mine is a bit faster than this)
 
I think it depends. If you are landing on your stomach like that then I guess it wont look too much like a backwards roll, though I'd be cautious. With the dance sequence can't you just do a backwards roll or a back extension roll then go down to your stomach?
 
I would definitly see it as a choreographed element. No deductions. That's a fairly common move in the modern dance world.
 
It's a good question! I don't know about where you are, but I believe girls over here have similar kinds of moves in their routines that don't count as skills.

I know some of our girls do a "fish-flop" which is uncoded

Could you post a link, I'd like to see what a fish-flop looks like.
 
I think it depends. If you are landing on your stomach like that then I guess it wont look too much like a backwards roll, though I'd be cautious. With the dance sequence can't you just do a backwards roll or a back extension roll then go down to your stomach?
I can use uncoded-but-recognisable skills as part of my D score and get 0.1 for them but then that means they can take from my E score for them, so I'm making a concious effort not to use anything that's "recognisable" except for the things I want as part of my D score because there's only one judge on floor and I know she wasn't looking when I did two B skills last time and missed them so if something like that happened again, she might miss one of my other skills and then credit my less-than-perfect backward roll. As it happens, I think I've found a nicer way of getting up that fits more with how dramatic my music is! ;)

Second question: turns/spins. Right back when I started gymnastics, I asked if turns had to be inward (en dedans) turns, because that's what the code seemed to show and what all the gymnasts I saw were doing. My coach said "I think so" and I never questioned it again. However, I'm starting to see things like this: http://flexibilitygoal.tumblr.com/post/98515929566/elisaminimeneghini-aliyas-spectatular-triple . She's doing her double turn outward (en dehors) at the end there and I wondered if she's just doing it outwards because it looks nice, since I doubt she needs a B spin to help her D-score, or if I would get credited if I turned outwards?
 
Margo- its not the natural direction, its more like back.vs.gainer somi's- both back somi's, but one is from a forward take off.

inward spins- if I get this right!, would be done on the left leg spinning right, or right leg spinning left.

outward spins would be left leg spinning left, or right leg spinning right.

Turk- IME it is more usual to spin outward. I'm a left leg and would always spin to my left, unless I was deliberately spinning inward, for whatever reason.

Both are allowed, you would need to ask someone familiar with the code whether they are credited differently.
 
Ah, see I stopped ballet at 7 so I have no idea ;)

I have never heard of it being an issue, I'm just thinking how the girls do it. P&F turns left on her left leg ( just checked on an old video) and has never been deducted on it.
 
Late to post, but that is an interesting question. Majority if not all gymnasts turn en dedans. I too have seen turn combinations with a double en dedans and then a single en dehor (on beam-Jordyn Weiber) or a double as the video you attached shows. Unfortunately, I am not versed in the code and what it says about turns-its required direction, if any. On a purely speculative level and based on my experience in dance, I think turns in gymnastics are done en dedans because turning on carpet or beam requires more momentum. Having an inward turn allows the gymnast to gather momentum by pushing off one foot (the one going on passe) to help with the turn. An en dehors turn may be harder in that one solely relies on the arms.

Gosh, I wish someone in this website can confirm if there is a required direction a turn should be made. Also, listening to most commentators even in the elite level, they refer (and appropriately so) to turns as spins, which is what they really are. So, I am also guessing that there may be no required direction a "spin" as to be performed. I am also guessing, the double en dedans turn to the double en dehors could be a B+B if a particular direction is not required in order to get credit for the two double turns.
 
So, I am also guessing that there may be no required direction a "spin" as to be performed. I am also guessing, the double en dedans turn to the double en dehors could be a B+B if a particular direction is not required in order to get credit for the two double turns.

Correct, the COP does not specify what direction the turn must occur in. So a double en dedans turn to a double en dehors would be C+C (1 1/2 is a B, 2/1 is a C in JO) for .1 in bonus at the higher levels ;)
 
Correct, the COP does not specify what direction the turn must occur in. So a double en dedans turn to a double en dehors would be C+C (1 1/2 is a B, 2/1 is a C in JO) for .1 in bonus at the higher levels ;)

That is great to know. Many thanks. My daughter is a good spinner so this turn combination is good. I don't know the codes, never seen or read it. So when you say a double turn is a C, is that on floor or beam or both?
 
That is great to know. Many thanks. My daughter is a good spinner so this turn combination is good. I don't know the codes, never seen or read it. So when you say a double turn is a C, is that on floor or beam or both?

Sorry I wasn't specific, I was speaking about floor in my original post. A 2/1 turn on beam is actually a D ;)
 

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