Coaches The value of back pikes

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Coaches, when (if ever) do you like to teach back pikes? I guess I'm mainly referring to floor, but many of the same questions apply to vaults and bar dismounts.

In the past, I've generally spent little to no time on piked saltos, preferring to stick to tucks and layouts. However, I've noticed that one or two of my JO girls who have been training them for T&T seem to be developing much better back tucks and layouts as a result.

I like to approach the sport as scientifically as possible, and as such, two disclaimers need to be made: first, that correlation is not causation, and a large part of the improvement on their back tucks and layouts simply may be from the extra time spent on trampoline in general. Second, two kids is not a statistically significant sample.

However, it seems to me that there are a couple of key points that a back pike can help with. First, the head doesn't start rotating until much later in the skill as compared to a tuck or layout. I suspect that becoming comfortable with this delay helps the kids avoid throwing their heads back in other backwards saltos. Second, the kick out at the end looks (and more importantly, feels) much more dramatic in a back pike; getting used to this might aid them in getting a better kick out on a back tuck as well.

Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I like to teach the hip extension on floor double pikes, and I like to use the double pike off of bars as a drill to correct the kids that are letting double tucks go with hips out and feet dragging.

 

[iwannacoach]

Each salto has it's own value as a learning tool. I see gymnastics as a sport, a study in human movement, and a search for the most body friendly means of getting from skill point A to skill point B. Pretty much, a mill circle has value in teaching kids how to shift their hands on forward skills like stalders, giants, and seat circles to reverse grip skills. So yeah, a back pike has lots of value, even if all you look for is to teach yourself how to create a specific movement, and to know every inch and every degree of that movement.

 

[tweez94]

I myself have been wondering the same thing. I've been looking over the new elite technical sequences and noticed the emphasis on good tucked and piked saltos with the early kick out (at or above horizontal). I guess everything comes back to basics one way or another. It seems most coaches I know don't teach pikes at all unless doing double pikes as dismounts, but if the kid never developed a good pike to begin with how good is the double pike going to be?

 

[BlairBob]

Yoshi told me once that depending on the gymnast, sometimes it's easier for them to rotate with a tuck vs pike. So it depends on their body. Ya know limb and torso length and ability to compress and rotate.

 

[CoachTodd]

I can see from what we had on vault where teaching the pike (especially in tusks) many of the kids would lift the hips first instead of balling up in a ball on the table. It gave the hand full of kids I worked that with a better block and better timing on flip. Coming off of floor or tramp, I can see it getting a similar result. I see far too many kids (not just cheerleaders) just balling up in a ball while whipping their flips. If they learn the pike, it usually makes them pull a little later since they aren't just bringing their knees through and it seems to be easier to teach them to pull more from the abs instead of just bringing their knees up. The only reason I really don't start with pikes on the floor is too many kids forget to bend their knees on the landing . I have had a few kids that can only pike one direction for some reason. i.e. they can pike backwards but not forward.

 

[BlairBob]

I was always much better at piking backwards though I practiced double front in tuck and double back in pike.

My guess is self taught. Probably flipped into pulls with tucks as a kid and worked on back pike more than back tuck.