To Spot Or Not To Spot. That is the Question.

[Stretchsportguy]

To spot or not to spot? That, is the question.

Coaches are as varied on this opinion as they are on how much salt you should put on food.

Some coaches are limited in size and/or strength making the task of spotting too much weight for them to handle.

Other coaches simply break most skills down into drills that do not require spotting.

There are coaches who are fans of spotting and others who view spotting as anathema. They despise it and reject it.

Spotting can be used to supplement drills and to adjust and correct faults.

As a gymnast you risk potentially serious injury by being spotted or coached by someone who is not qualified, knowledgeable, experienced or strong enough.

Spotting is an art and requires knowledge, strength and experience. Any error in judgment could lead to serious injury. Spotting can protect the gymnast and build confidence in doing the skill until they are ready to do it on their own safely.

How do you know when to stop spotting a gymnast?

If you spot too much they will become dependent, but then how do you know when to back off in spotting? Is backing off early more beneficial because the child doesn't have a chance to become dependent on that spot?

Achievement, keeps the gymnast motivated.

When to stop spotting a gymnast is completely situation dependent. It depends on the gymnast's confidence, the difficulty of the move, etc. It is a decision that you would normally have to make based upon your feeling.

If you were my gymnast, you would be spotted on everything at some point. Not necessarily often. But every aspect of every skill is broken down and spotted for placement, direction, and position. Every aspect of every skill is spotted where possible. Then the skill is divided into sections where the skill is spotted at certain points during its performance. Then the beginning, and/or middle, and/or end is spotted. Then less, then BANG! They have it. Then we go back and keep touching it up. Emphasizing what we want by spotting.

What is your philosophy on spotting?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

In my opinion, it depends a lot on the context.

In some cases (ie when training a backhandspring,) I prefer to continue spotting until the skill is just about perfect, and only then do I let the gymnast perform the skill without a spot.

In other cases, such as vault, I try to spot as little as possible, because I feel that spotting changes the rythm of the skill too much.

Depends on the skill, depends on the kid, depends on what sort of equipment is available.

 

[gymnut29]

I agree with Geoffrey. It depends on the skill. Some skills need to be spotted to get the feel for the skill, ie the kip or backhandspring there are so many drills for each part of it but putting them all together is usually the hardest part and spotting the gymnast through it till they get the feeling is the best way for them to learn it.

On beam I try to spot less, especially on backward skills such as backwalkovers. I don’t want them to become dependent on my spotting. I spot them on floor beams to learn correct positioning and have them stack mats and slowly lower the stack instead of relying on me. I am willing to stand next to them ready to spot and catch them if they go off a little but I want them to initiate the skill without the feeling of my hand on their back.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

non-spotting methodologies are the preferred method for learning to take hold long term. drills, drills and more drills are to accompany this method of learning.

spotting, also called shaping, is necessary for the athlete to understand what they must do with their bodies.

to spot or not to spot has not been a question or issue for years. and of course, spotting is not failproof. yet spotting can serve a purpose, not an end all to a finished skill, over the course of an athletes career along with all the other teaching aids and devices we use today such at pits, resi's, etc;

 

[ryantroop]

I prefer the shaping ideology, though I do stand in once in a while - especially for release moves, big vaults, and that wonderful back handspring.

I think it's such a benefit for athletes to "feel" a skill before they attempt it on their own. I suppliment drills with shaping, and when a gymnast does the skill with fluid motion and without weight bearing on me, I begin to let them try it on their own.

Hope that helps,

Ryan

 

[gymdog]

I spot as often as necessary. Obviously most of us have more than one athlete so we need to find ways other than spotting or there will be a lot of lines. They also need to gain some independence and learn to do some things by feel where it's safe. Of course it's a fine line to supervise for technique.

For example, you will often find with the kips they can do it easily with just a small spot, but by themselves will fall or use poor technique, because the spot is giving them some timing cue or just that little extra they need. So we need to use a mix of drills with most kids and continue to vary the methods and challenge them to get powerful kips. Whereas the same "two finger spot" on a back salto or BHS might mean that when the coach just stands there and takes their hand away, the skill will be performed virtually the same way.

On beam I feel if they really NEED a spot, they are not ready to do the skill. At the time I expect a kid to do BWO on the beam, they should be more than physically ready. If it continues to be an issue we need to step back and gain some confidence in the positions. I will spot and stand there on the first few times to facilitate moving to the next step.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

My gymnasts are young and most are new to the sport. I spend a lot of time shaping as mentioned above, but also set up drills which will help them perform skills correctly. As gymdog mentioned, it’s a juggling act between making good use of time/developing confidence and getting the technique correct.

Mas Watanabe Posted a blog on this topic last month for anyone interested.

I have a question about a situation (forceful spotting) related to this. I will post another thread for it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

sorry guys, i thought i would post this here for those that are interested and given that the "twisting" thread was dutifully shut down.

my mind has cleared and i talked to my wife. a former elite gymnast from the 70's and early 80's. the class 1 compulsory vault in the 70's was a handspring full. the elite compulsory vault was a yami 1/2.

now for you stretch...

who taught brandi johnson her yurchenko layout full and front handspring front 1/2?

name the master of vaulting, and more precisely, the master of front handspring double fulls and the 1st coach to have an athlete compete front handspring triple full, from the state of florida??

 

[Linsul]

I use spotting much more heavily in rec classes than preteam and up. If it's doing the skill safely for a kid that really wants to come in and have fun, spotting. If it's a competition ready skill we're looking for, I spend a lot more time on drills and shaping. That's not to say there's no overlap of methodology, but there's a big difference between being able to do a skill safely and progressively and doing it for a judge to show excellent fundamentals. I also rely on shaping and drills a lot just to keep myself working! I don't have the physical strength required to hold someone long enough to make spotting (in a sense of holding someone in a position they can't maintain themselves) + explanation a major part of my coaching arsenal.

 

[CoachTodd]

I tend to use spotting as much as drills. The issue I run into at our gym is there sometimes isn't enough space or mats to set up drills. In an ideal world I'd have all the mats and all the space I need for every group I work with as well as already having the drills set up before they hit their rotations. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be an ideal world.
As far as when to stop spotting, it all depends on the kid. I try to spot as much as needed. i.e. I try not to just throw the kids through a skill. Sometimes this may take a bit more strength but that's just how I do it.

 

[gymnut1]

My group is young and I shape nearly all their moves. I try and set up drills to 'keep them going' when waiting. I do agree that they can become dependent on spotting. Like stretch I like to shape until their skill is good. They sometimes say can I do it by myself and if it is safe I let them with the proviso that if it is wrong they come back to being spotted.

The one I struggle with is the back walk over on beam. Several of my last group will just not transition from being spotted on even floor beam. Their walkovers are good on floor. they are good on beam with a spot. I am interested in preparing my current group a little better. Any ideas.

 

[gymdog]

My group is young and I shape nearly all their moves. I try and set up drills to 'keep them going' when waiting. I do agree that they can become dependent on spotting. Like stretch I like to shape until their skill is good. They sometimes say can I do it by myself and if it is safe I let them with the proviso that if it is wrong they come back to being spotted.

The one I struggle with is the back walk over on beam. Several of my last group will just not transition from being spotted on even floor beam. Their walkovers are good on floor. they are good on beam with a spot. I am interested in preparing my current group a little better. Any ideas.

Do bridge and bridge kickover wherever they will do it. Even with mats. Even on a fat beam. Then do back bends. Spotted and unspotted. I have talked about this before but the kids have to do unspotted backwards things on the beam starting as early as possible in the different shapes. i.e. stand and roll back to candlestick, backwards roll, bridge, bridge walk, bridge kickover. I know it sounds excessive because they can do the back walkover, but beam hand positioning is a bit different and they get confident in learning adjustments this way. I sometimes see kids who are struggling with backwards beam acro but literally have not done backwards JUMPS on beam and are nervous about that. Big problem. Make sure they are doing backwards punch jumps, backwards broad jumps, one leg backwards, etc.

 

[gymnut1]

Do bridge and bridge kickover wherever they will do it. Even with mats. Even on a fat beam. Then do back bends. Spotted and unspotted. I have talked about this before but the kids have to do unspotted backwards things on the beam starting as early as possible in the different shapes. i.e. stand and roll back to candlestick, backwards roll, bridge, bridge walk, bridge kickover. I know it sounds excessive because they can do the back walkover, but beam hand positioning is a bit different and they get confident in learning adjustments this way. I sometimes see kids who are struggling with backwards beam acro but literally have not done backwards JUMPS on beam and are nervous about that. Big problem. Make sure they are doing backwards punch jumps, backwards broad jumps, one leg backwards, etc.

That is interesting. We do bridge kickovers and all my previous group could do them no problem on high beam. However I like the sound of bridge walks on the beam. I think that would help confidence. I will start that on floor beam with soft mats over. No one in our gym does backwards jumps on beam. Infact I have never seen that. Do you do that on a high beam or a low beam. Only the rec groups do backwards walking. I will put in some more backwards movements in their beam work. Thanks.

 

[gymdog]

You can start them on low beam but there's no reason kids in a team level learning BWO etc can't do backwards walking and backwards punch jumps on higher beams. Of course they need to get their bearings, make sure they aren't on top of each other, etc.

Bridge walks, yes start on the low beam and have them only go a little at once, because they need to build strength and not overstress their backs. In fact you can even just have them do it on floor to start, but it is a good thing to learn how to do it with the beam hands. You can even set up on the low beam so then can move forward just a couple feet and then do kickover off the end.

If they are hesistating on the starting point then they can just do the first part on the ground (so they will end in bridge with the good leg straight up). Then they can go on low beam with mats, etc. This also helps them get a little more control in staying square. But moving the spot away can just be a confidence issue. Even on low beam you can try things like stack mats at the end of beam to whatever the height of the beam is, and have them do the BWO just standing on the very end of the beam and hands on the mat.

 

[nevertooold]

You can even set up on the low beam so then can move forward just a couple feet and then do kickover off the end.

Even on low beam you can try things like stack mats at the end of beam to whatever the height of the beam is, and have them do the BWO just standing on the very end of the beam and hands on the mat.

For the most part we don't spot bwo on beam, and just use the progressions of floor, floor line, foam beam, floor beam w/ & w/o panel mats, high beam w/ mat stack.
They can move through the floor, line, foam and floor beam w/ panels as they feel ready. When they get to floor beam w/o panels they start to keep a tally. When they hit 200 they can move up to the next height, most are really eager to move up by that point. As they progress along the heights we can adjust the number needed if necessary. At some point, when they seem ready, we switch over from total tally marks to 10 in a row needed to move up. We also do, MISS 2 in a row and move back down a level. So far this has worked well for us.

But we have a couple with more severe fear issues (for other reasons) and I think your two ideas above will really help. Thanks!

 

[gymdog]

I dealt with a kid with severe fear issues (understatement) and those were some things we used to get used to the positions. However another technique to control fear is to have the kids develop one thing to say for the beginning, middle, and end of the skill (i.e. tall - push - squeeze). They should always think this when they do any part, so if they are doing the beginning part say the first thing and bridge kickover say the second two things. This helps focus the mind on the skill and control fear. If they are thinking different things every time they feel out of control because their mind is out of control.

Also do lots of split handstands in order to learn balance this way and save their backs. I try to use this almost as much as the first part in order to save stress on the back.

 

[cher062]

I think if a gymnast is asking for a spot they should get one at least for the first few times then as the coach sees they are getting it maybe be there if a spot is needed but not do the spot unless necessary then eventually move back.

I think every kid is different and to spot or not to spot will be a different answer.

 

[wordsmith]

What is your philosophy on spotting?

I've recently been influenced, within the last year, by a coach who believes in shaping-type spotting (mostly on bars). He'd spot every single skill even though the gymnast could do the skills on her own, pausing here and there and poking/checking for body shape, position, and form. For every 4 routines done by the gymnast, he'd hand-spot about 3 of these, with every 4th routine done solo by the gymnast. He said he did this because he's a firm believer in muscle-memory (let a kid do bad technique repeatedly, and it gets ingrained into the neuro-pathway of bad habit). I'm not completely sold on it, but I've adopted some of that approach into my own coaching. The reason I'm not completely sold on it is because I do see a certain trade-off. Not due to gymnasts being afraid of doing skills by themselves, in this case; but in gymnasts getting lazy and not firing off their muscle-fibers correctly enough to develop the proper strength to do all the skills and hit all the positions based on the merits of their own efforts. I suppose it's a matter of striking a balance (something I'm trying to find). I just think too much of it takes away from the gymnast self-educating the body by you doing too much of it for her.

I think so long as the gymnast understands what is required of her, and what the skill should feel like (by spotting and carrying through proper technique now and then as a constant reinforcement of how the skill should be executed), so long as she has her brain on and actively making those changes without developing undesirable habits, then allowing the gymnast to do skills, even sloppily (so long as they don't become habitually the same), as she gets stronger and logs in the flight time, the skill will work itself out, form and all. Repetition is the mother of all teachers, after all.

(Of course, how many gymnasts do we know who have been allowed to develop such bad habits that, at their age, it's probably too late to correct their round-offs? Their giants? Etc...? So it also depends on the quality of the repetition)

As far as BWO on beam, I'd say spot them on the floor for proper technical execution and form. Maybe also on the floor beam. But then beyond that, no more spotting, but maybe stand there for rescue spotting at first. At the first gym I worked at, the coaches didn't allow any spotting for the high beam. Ever. If the gymnast could not do it on the high beam, then she wasn't ready. And this approach seemed to work great. Gymnasts learn the skill properly on the low beam. When they've done a sufficient number of reps to gain the skill and the confidence to do it safely, then they took it up to the next level beam. They had to do a certain number to pass on to the next higher beam, and then the next, and so on (removing 8 inchers out from underneath). If you didn't have the confidence to do it by yourself on the next level, then you weren't ready for it and stayed where you're at.

I like this approach because I think it's not only safer (since nervous gymnasts can imperil both the gymnast and the spotter), but it makes the gymnast confront how to deal with fear and anxiety issues productively and overcome them when these instances arise. If proper progression steps are taken, then there shouldn't be any fear issues.


Of course, there are always exceptions to rules and I am not a believer in a "one size fits all" approach. Sometimes you have to do some tailor-fitting toward the needs of the individual and figure out what teaching method a gymnast responds best to, and which gets you the best results out of her.

 

[bogwoppit]

Welcome to the Chalkbucket Wordsmith! Nice to have your input as well.

If you are who I think you are I have long been a fan of your videos!

 

[wordsmith]

Thanks for the welcome!

I suppose I should go introduce myself.

And yeah, It probably is who you might be thinking of. I didn't realize I had any video "fans" out there. Thanks!